justone

Some always represent Muslim terrorists, animals, which cannot even be compared to animals in their cruelty as innocent civilians, old or sick.


innocent women

and children


In fact we have to deal with fanatics raised to be fanatics from the very childhood, who has received military training both in the Soviet military and in all kinds of Muslim camps, who had years of experience of fighting gorilla war and urban combat, who have ‘’as much as it is needed’’ financial support of the Muslim word and ‘’as much as it is needed’’ moral support from the Western liberal media and those who portray them as innocent civilians.


In 2000 Putin just started – Russia was on the brink of total collapse. The Russian military was in total disaster. The Russian generals were all corrupted and giving up on Russia. The low estimate of Russian troops imposed by admirers of Muslim terrorists posting here is sucked out of their finger, as well as ¼ of a million was impossible logistically and financially for Russia and is no more than Muslim propaganda in all its absurdity.


It is obvious since the WWII and through Fallujah, Grozny and Gaza, where Israel did not even dent Hamas, that in urban combat defenders, and especially gorilla fighters, have all advantage. It is proven that a city has to be blockaded and practically leveled out. It is proven that the attackers have to have more than 4:1 advantage in man power.Tanks and helicopters are not so much of a help unless they use the Russian tactics.

RPG-9 sold by Russian corrupted commissaries to Muslim for $1000 a piece took this $2,000,000 machine down.2 members of the crew were burned alive, the 3rd one tried to rescue them. He still drove the machine and played for all 3 members but was able to fire only 4 cannon shots.


Ooops I lost the bookmark for the video… Does not matter, that was only the guy talking and showing the core of the RPG stuck in the armor.

Stingers has proven to scare helicopters away. Chechnya SAM - YouTube - Truveo Video Search

The demand of Liberals for some kind of tactics they dream of in their warm chairs in front of their PC is no different from the Russian corrupted commissaries selling RPGs to Muslims.

Tashah

Yes you are. Most are veterans. Why do you think the Russian military contracts them? Because they are not conscripts. Volunteers? They are paid mercenaries. Most don't re-up because the pay is abysmal.

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Onion Eater

Global Security is a well-respected source of information on military matters and, along with Parameters, my primary source. I don't think you'll get much traction denouncing them as apologists for "Muslim terrorist animals." Few people mistake Global Security for Al Jazeera.

My outline of tactics, based on my study of the First Chechen War, is about tactics. I really don't care if the Chechens are good people or bad people, devout or irreligious. I ask only how they fight and if it worked for them.

Anyway, you persist in getting the two wars mixed up.

The First Chechen War had nothing to do with religion. They were taken by surprise by the Russians, who attacked on New Years Eve, which is a big drinking holiday in Chechnya. (And, yes, they do drink alcohol; most Chechens are Muslim in name only.) The Chechen defense was motivated primarily by nationalism and a long-standing hatred for the Russians, specifically for the mass deportations of 1944.

I will see if I can find the link, but President Dudayev famously told a Western reporter that he was VERY devout and encouraged all of his men to pray three times a day, just like the Koran specifies. The reporter had to remind him that the Koran actually specifies five prayers a day and he was like, "Right - five - that's what I meant." So, whatever you may think of Dudayev, calling him an Islamic extremist is just not accurate.

During the interwar period, at the same time that Al Queda was rising in Afghanistan, the IIPB (Islamic International Brigade) became a threat to the Chechen government under President Maskhadov. This was largely because the formal economy was devastated, giving Maskhadov an almost non-existent tax base, while the IIPB was making hundreds of millions of dollars by kidnapping people.

The Second Chechen War was initiated by a series of apartment building bombings in Moscow, which the Russians blamed on the Chechens. To this day, it is not clear who actually blew up those apartment building, or to what end. The action does not seem to be in anybody's best interest. It is not inconceivable that the Russian government did this to their own people to give themselves an excuse to re-invade Chechnya. But, if anybody in Chechnya was involved, it was almost certainly the IIPB (possibly as part of an extortion scheme), not the Maskhadov government.

So, if you are going to insist on framing every discussion of tactics with talk of "Muslim terrorist animals," then there are indeed some involved in the Second Chechen War. But my outline of tactics is based on the First Chechen War. From a tactical perspective (which is really my only perspective) there is little to learn from the Second Chechen War. The Chechen government was so weak and the Russian government was so much stronger and better organized than they had been in 1995, that the result was almost a forgone conclusion.

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Motto: Critiques and rebuttals are how science advances.

justone

I particularly addressed the post #30 http://www.debatepolitics.com/war-te...post1058076985 the 2nd war as you called it, ( I understood that you were meaning 1999-2000) and the particular words of yours I quoted.

I cannot see any objection of yours to my arguments.

As to the additional info you are supplying, indeed Dudaev, a Soviet general was not so much of a Muslim by definition, as of a nationalist and an opportunist. It does not mean that he did not appeal to Muslim feelings strong in Chechens. Dudaev says - ‘we are Muslims’ and the fact that he had to show that he was an atheist during all his carrier in the USSR and his personal lack of knowledge of rituals does not diminish the fact that he involves and refers to Islam. You yourself, bringing his words prove that the first war had as well to do to religion, as to everything else listed and not listed by you, including oil, money, Chechen and Russian criminals and mafia.

If Russians blamed Chechens it may be an official Russian position. Unless you have a proof of the opposite, your “unclear’ is a conspiracy theory. Whatsoever Chechnya was an inflammatory cancerous spot and it had to be dealt with.

The Chechen ‘’government’’ was not ‘’so weak’’ as you are trying to represent, because it was employing and was helped by the Muslim world, including highly trained and experienced Muslim mercenaries, and because of many other reasons. And the Russian government not was so much stronger and better organized than it had been in 1995, because actually from 1995 to 1999 Russia was spiraling down, not moving up. The leadership just changed and Putin just started, and of course he was mush stronger, but it did not mean that he changed everything within a few months.

‘’ the result was’’ no more ‘’almost a forgone conclusion’’, as it could be in 1995, if Russia did not learned its mistakes and if it was not led by Putin. Whatsoever, if to take Fallujah vs. the US and Hamas vs IDF and Chechnya vs. Russia, Hamas gov-nt and Fallujah were not any stronger than The Chechen ‘’government’’, actually they were a lot weaker, but only Russia was successful. If you could suggest and defend another possible tactic rather than saying that nothing can be learned from Russians, if you could compare with more successful tactics of fighting Muslim fanatics in urban combat, when Muslims are all supported by women and children and know the terrain, and use their tactics including evil brutality - if you could, you would.
But when you can’t point to anything supporting your conclusions, and when you can’t point to anything supporting ‘’old and sick’’, and the number of old and sick, when you completely discount the real abilities of Muslim fanatics, when you cannot lay down a need and a possibility of logistic of ¼ million, when you do not address my points, then you as boring and dull as Tashah, even if you have some clues.

justone

1. Try to get some clue. I asked you a question – the US Marines are paid, contractniki are paid, the US marines sign and extend contracts, contractniki do the same, - why contractniki are mercenaries and the US Marines are not? The hint is – you cannot say they are mercenaries, unless you answer this question. You cannot say they are mercenaries unless you provide some facts, sources, links.

2. You said they are veterans, - now you change to ’’ most of them’’. Many of them indeed volunteer after regular service, in the same way as many volunteer for police after service in military in the US. When I say volunteer I of course do not mean they do it for free. May be I should have found a better word, - no, they as well as police in the US do it for money, and for a better pay than they could get anywhere else. It should be clear from all my description. Like some of those who celebrate the professional day of VDV in Orenburg on the video, may sober up and go back again for 3 years. It does not mean that anybody is accepted. And of course though drinking is the main fun in Russia it does not make them ‘’all alcoholics’’ in the meaning you are putting in. The requirements of the profession does not allow alcoholism as it can be seen on videos I posted, and on this one – the final exam, graduation – after hours of non-stop running through rough terrain, shooting and push ups each of them has to withstand 5 minutes of kick boxing with a fresh instructor, and not only to withstand, but kick back in order to pass: (This particular unit is called Vityaz – Knight)
I may post more link, sorces, videos and translate – proving that they all were there in Chechnya, - OMON, SOBR (СОБР), Spetsnaz of all kinds not even mentioned here:
BBC NEWS | Europe | Spetsnaz: Russia's elite force
“Spetsnaz recruits are sometimes hand-picked from the conventional military, usually those showing signs of the toughness of character and ability to use initiative.”
‘’ In the United States, despite the focus on the War on Terror in Iraq and Afghanistan, there is still some training conducted at Fort Irwin's National Training Center and Fort Polk's Joint Readiness Training Center for countering Spetsnaz in the rear areas of NATO. Spetsnaz is still, almost twenty years after the end of the Cold War, regarded as a real threat.’’


How to get into special forces? First read, then ask! insane colonel answers ridiculous questions in the heap Google Translate

Can I go after the University of MVD in SOBR? Specialty - Law enforcement (Lawyer)


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Glen
Moderator


Joined: 21.12.2003
Posts: 1097 can

The first one must have a brain that even a little bit to reflect that all troops of special forces are subject to SPN federal target program (or simple to contract) – draftees are less and less in this program and for 2009-2010 there will not be any left. However, while some parts still recruiting l / s and beyond the call of what I list. Remember at this time the army moved to the regional principle of acquisition, that is where they live and serve (well at least trying not to move anywhere but on this coming) If you are such a romantic boy who to shivering in his knees wants to be in SPN ask whether there are in your area...

- ISlava wrote (a):
Good day! Tell me, I am studying the second year in a law school , is there a chance to join the SOBR (pending graduation)?-Served in the military (both regular and under contract)
Thanks in advance.

chance there is of course ... but not a particularly ... because in order for you must be certified in secondary education (college) at least ... if the latter course is more options ... although it all depends on the leadership, staffing in the unit (a high demand at the moment is) and how you would be liked ...., in principle, they may take you, but without the diploma you will not get the rank of officer....

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As the matter of the facts quoted and videos shown, Sptcnaz which has different kinds of units recruits all kind of people, and prior service is not a must for all units (some start training when still on the high school ), while it is a requirement for other units. As the Col points in 2009 - 2010 all recruits of Spetsnaz are planned to be contractniki, like military in the US. I pointed it to you so many times, I provided, links, sources, videos, translations, but you still cannot get a clue. You need no sources, no links, no references… you wouldn’t even understand such a requirement.

I have no hope that I can get into your head and change anything, if there is something there. You still will be going around repeating your beliefs, - mercenaries, all alcoholics, etc… But some may be interested.




A Major [rank] of the Russian police (OMON) against a world champion, an officer of the American police, .