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Here’s the Latest Evidence Torture Doesn’t Keep Us Safe

Gaztopian said:
Too late for you. Now it's the fate of the U.S to keep policing the world till it goes bankrupt. And no, that's not my "flowery educated wording" at play; it's the rhetoric of the current presidential frontrunners despite the blunders of the past two decades and the throng of ailments from which the U.S suffers.
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Fate changes daily, just the way world events do.
 
Gaztopian said:
So you're optimistic about the advent of American isolationism?
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I'm not the one whining about America's global projection of power ......you are. Europe is just as guilty about the mess in the Middle East & Africa, and the European people conveniently fail to recognize this fact.
 
Gaztopian said:
This mode of thinking is another manifestation of that perverse entitlement to the moral high-ground, for it assumes the inherent benevolence of the U.S.

The U.S did lead the world to defeat Nazism and Japanese imperialism, but for what? to replace it with American hegemony? You might say "wait a second, you can't possibly equate American hegemony to murderous Nazism and Japanese imperialism". To you and to the Marshall Plan beneficiaries that might sound absurd, but I assure you, it wouldn't have sounded absurd to the Vietnamese that American napalm incinerated. Nor does it sound absurd to anyone who had his family wiped off the face of the earth by a drone strike only to be called collateral damage, to Iraqis who saw their country reduced to rubble over the whimsy of a cretin, or to Palestinians who know that the root of their undying misery is American unconditional support of Zionism.
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We might have quite a different world had the US stayed out of Vietnam and out of Iraq.
 
RetiredUSN said:
I'm not the one whining about America's global projection of power ......you are. Europe is just as guilty about the mess in the Middle East & Africa, and the European people conveniently fail to recognize this fact.
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A cop-out.
 
Gaztopian said:
A cop-out.
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Not even close.

Your bent views are a "cop out" by declaring one nation as the root of all things bad. You totally ignore the Euro's and there backroom deals trying get the Americans to act as their Pit Bull, all the while sitting back claiming that their views are more worldly. Gimme a break with that clownish parroting.
 
Gaztopian said:
What perplexes people about the U.S is its unprecedented and perhaps uncontested economic, military, and scientific superiority. But it's the country's ideological idiosyncrasies and its intransigent make-believe when it comes to morality that perplex me.

A case in point. We recently had a discussion in the Middle East forum regarding statistics that reveal a popular animus towards the U.S in Iraq. Considering what the U.S did to Iraqis and the ramifications of it, no sane person would argue against that animus. But we had several American members objecting to the sentiment, and when confronted by the reason behind it, a few argued that the U.S invaded Germany and Japan and yet they don't hate us. I wasn't born yesterday and I'm acquainted with obstinacy, but I have to say, I was stunned.
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Yes, I have seen the same rationalization processes operating on the web and in real life too. IMO it is a form of denial or cognitive dissonance. Reality threatens a person's world view, and the psyche defends its own world view rather than deal with reality.

Whether or not it's peculiar to americans alone I am not sure. I doubt it is. But it certainly does seem to be so very apparent with americans.

In the case of Iraq, Americans were taken into that war under fraud and deception, and many have still not been able to understand or come to grips with that reality.
 
matchlight said:
"We?" Speak for yourself. I fully support President Roosevelt's order relocating persons of Japanese ancestry away from the West Coast.
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So you fully support the violation of citizens Constitutional Rights? You fully support that children were mistreated and that when some of th Japanese returned home to collect things some were beaten and some were even killed... this is all OK with you?
 
Bodhisattva said:
So you fully support the violation of citizens Constitutional Rights? You fully support that children were mistreated and that when some of th Japanese returned home to collect things some were beaten and some were even killed... this is all OK with you?
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Do you get your information from the Daily Kos, or from anti-American movies by the likes of Michael Moore and Oliver Stone? Considering your lurid appeal to emotion, I might have thought the Daily Worker was a possibility, if not for the fact it went under long ago.

The relocation was a standard subject of the anti-American propaganda in the issues of the American edition of Soviet Life from the 1950's that I used to peruse. One standard ploy of this Communist propaganda was to play on the fact President Roosevelt had at first used the term "concentration camps" to describe centers where the people being relocated were first collected to imply that these places were like Treblinka, Auschwitz, etc. One of them was the horse racing track at Santa Anita, right down the road from me. Haven't seen any crematoria there yet.

As a lawyer, I am well aware the Constitution is the highest law in the United States, and because I am not a leftist, I respect that fact. The Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of President Roosevelt's relocation order in Korematsu.
 
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matchlight said:
Do you get your information from the Daily Kos, or from anti-American movies by the likes of Michael Moore and Oliver Stone? Considering your lurid appeal to emotion, I might have thought the Daily Worker was a possibility, if not for the fact it went under long ago.

The relocation was a standard subject of the anti-American propaganda in the issues of the American edition of Soviet Life from the 1950's that I used to peruse. One standard ploy of this Communist propaganda was to play on the fact President Roosevelt had at first used the term "concentration camps" to describe centers where the people being relocated were first collected to imply that these places were like Treblinka, Auschwitz, etc. One of them was the horse racing track at Santa Anita, right down the road from me. Haven't seen any crematoria there yet.

As a lawyer, I am well aware the Constitution is the highest law in the United States, and because I am not a leftist, I respect that fact. The Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of President Roosevelt's relocation order in Korematsu.
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Who is appealing? You. I never said "concentration camps" or anything of the like. I talked about "violating citizens rights"... something that you COMPLETELY IGNORED. As a non-lawyer... I defeated two lawyers when self-representing...

Their relocation is pretty much universally understood as a violation of rights as I have already pointed out.
 
This thread is a festival of ignorance. Enhanced interrogation was never used to seek intelligence, but to induce compliance. Questions asked under enhanced interrogation were always questions to which we already knew the answers. Only after truthful compliance was achieved were intelligence collection questions posed.
 
Yes Jack, with your post, this is indeed a festival of ignorance. Also a festival of government talking points and sophistry.
 
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