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​ISIS Is Not Waging a War Against Western Civilization

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TheDemSocialist

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At least Marco Rubio didn’t answer the attacks in Paris by demanding that the United States accept only Christian refugees. He left that to Ted Cruz.
But given the Florida senator’s reputation in GOP circles as a foreign-policy wonk, it’s worth looking in some detail at just how ridiculous his response was.

“The attacks in Paris,” Rubio began, “are a wake-up call.” Forgive the pedantry, but this is among the stupidest clichés in politics. Wake-up calls are things you plan yourself because you want to be awoken from your slumber at a set time, usually by a hotel clerk. The Paris attack was a horrific surprise orchestrated by France’s enemies. It wasn’t a “wake-up call” unless you believe its ultimate author was France itself.
[h=4]RELATED[/h]The linguistic weirdness continues a couple of lines later. “This is not a geopolitical issue where they want to conquer territory and it’s two countries fighting against each other,” Rubio declared. “They literally want to overthrow our society and replace it with their radical, Sunni Islamic view of the future. This is not a grievance-based conflict. This is a clash of civilizations.” Notice that Rubio never explicitly defines who “they” are. According to the French government, the Islamic State perpetrated Friday’s attacks. Rubio, however, said what occurred in Paris is a “clash of civilizations.”
But ISIS isn’t a civilization.

In parts of Iraq and Syria, it’s a self-declared, though unrecognized, state. Elsewhere, it’s a network of terrorist groups linked by a common ideology. “Civilizations” are cultural groupings. In calling the Paris attack a “clash of civilizations,” Rubio evoked Samuel Huntington’s famed 1993Foreign Affairs essay of the same name. In that essay, Huntington defined “civilization” as “the broadest level of cultural identity people have.” And he suggested that the world contains “seven or eight” major ones: “Western, Confucian, Japanese, Islamic, Hindu, Slavic-Orthodox, Latin American and possibly African.”

The obvious answer is that the Islamic State fights those who block its path to power, whether they are liberal democracies or not. It attacked Russia because Russia joined the war in Syria on Assad’s side. Although Moscow has focused many of its air strikes on other Syrian rebel groups, the Islamic State evidently now sees the Russians as a battlefield enemy. That’s also how it sees France, which in September expanded its air strikes against ISIS from Iraq to Syria. Just last week, France announced it was sending an aircraft carrier to launch raids against the organization from the Persian Gulf. ISIS specifically cited France’s participation in the “Crusader campaign” in Syria in its statement claiming responsibility for the Paris attacks.
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Read more @: ​ISIS Is Not Waging a War Against Western Civilization

Its not a war on "western democracy", its not a war on "western civilization". Its a war on those who block ISISs' path to power.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Its not a war on "western democracy", its not a war on "western civilization". Its a war on those who block ISISs' path to power. [/FONT][/COLOR]
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Sure, power is part of it. But I don't believe for one second that its the only thing driving ISIS. They fully believe that their beliefs are paramount to everything and if you don't follow it to a T then you are a waste of space and deserve to be killed and will go out of their way to do so. That is most certainly what I would call a war on civilizations that are not their own. Are they in the majority? Nope. But while the author of that article mentions 7-8 major civilizations the author also ignores that there are many many smaller civilizations out there also. But lets say that ISIS isn't a civilization per se. ISIS most definitely wants to form one in their own image. One that dominates all others if at worst. At best they want it to be the ONLY type out there. (note the words "worst" and "best" are being used from their perspectives)

But to say that it's only about power? That, quite frankly, is a stupid assumption. Too simple of thinking and portrays them as a threat, but not a threat that's big enough to worry about. It's much harder to fight an ideology than it is a threat. And that is what we're fighting against, an ideology, not a simple threat.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Read more @: ​ISIS Is Not Waging a War Against Western Civilization

Its not a war on "western democracy", its not a war on "western civilization". Its a war on those who block ISISs' path to power. [/FONT][/COLOR]
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considering that ISIS's goal is to have the entire world as an Islamic caliphate, western democracy and western civilization are blocking their path to power. So yes ISIS is waging a war against western civilization, you would have to be geopolitically ignorant to believe otherwise
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Its not a war on "western democracy", its not a war on "western civilization". Its a war on those who block ISISs' path to power.[/COLOR]
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Even better then. Who wants that kind of backward people in power?
 
Crovax said:
considering that ISIS's goal is to have the entire world as an Islamic caliphate, western democracy and western civilization are blocking their path to power. So yes ISIS is waging a war against western civilization, you would have to be geopolitically ignorant to believe otherwise
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Considering anyone can claim anything as their ultimate goal- it's the ABILITY to carry out the multitude of tasks required one needs to scrutinize...

al-Queera had the same goal... where are they?

Commies were going to take over the world.... how did that work out???

How is our war on drugs going???

Do the words- "bear any burden, pay any price" sound familiar???

Terrorists have always been a problem for the dominate world powers- but you'd have to be historically ignorant to think they have any chance of making their goals a reality... :peace
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Read more @: ​ISIS Is Not Waging a War Against Western Civilization

Its not a war on "western democracy", its not a war on "western civilization". Its a war on those who block ISISs' path to power. [/FONT][/COLOR]
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:roll:

In other words...

tumblr_nusp5jmZkZ1r4o9xho1_r1_500.jpg


Rubio's spot on. The author simply dislikes his phrasing, because it fails to mesh with the ridiculous Left Wing lie that ISIL somehow is not a real "Islamic" group, and doesn't actually want to destroy the West (Ya know... Because the cultural Left wants to paint this all as being our fault instead, and say that we ultimately 'had it coming' because of our foreign policy).

Well, the simple fact of the matter is that ISIL is an Islamic group, and they do want to destroy us. Get over it.

Claiming that ISIS does not ultimately want to "destroy" Liberal Democracy makes about as much sense as claiming that Hitler and the Third Reich did not wish to do so.
 
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notquiteright said:
Considering anyone can claim anything as their ultimate goal- it's the ABILITY to carry out the multitude of tasks required one needs to scrutinize...

al-Queera had the same goal... where are they?

Commies were going to take over the world.... how did that work out???

How is our war on drugs going???

Do the words- "bear any burden, pay any price" sound familiar???

Terrorists have always been a problem for the dominate world powers- but you'd have to be historically ignorant to think they have any chance of making their goals a reality... :peace
Click to expand...

And do you think leaving ISIS alone in the middle east and not fighting them will make them stronger or weaker?

"Commies" and al-queda didnt succeed because we fought them, we didnt have this phony belief that our intervention in their affairs was the only reason they existed in the first place
 
notquiteright said:
Considering anyone can claim anything as their ultimate goal- it's the ABILITY to carry out the multitude of tasks required one needs to scrutinize...

al-Queera had the same goal... where are they?

Commies were going to take over the world.... how did that work out???

How is our war on drugs going???

Do the words- "bear any burden, pay any price" sound familiar???

Terrorists have always been a problem for the dominate world powers- but you'd have to be historically ignorant to think they have any chance of making their goals a reality... :peace
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The point you're missing is that the fact they believe that they must achieve world domination and kill all who don't follow their 'truth' combined with the fact that they're willing to act on it and have been acting on it for the last several years, means that they would commit terrorism against the West regardless of what the West does (as long as it isn't fully converting to the ISIS ideology and belief) - contrary to the false, misleading assertion implied by the OP.
 
Apocalypse said:
The point you're missing is that the fact they believe that they must achieve world domination and kill all who don't follow their 'truth' combined with the fact that they're willing to act on it and have been acting on it for the last several years, means that they would commit terrorism against the West regardless of what the West does (as long as it isn't fully converting to the ISIS ideology and belief) - contrary to the false, misleading assertion implied by the OP.
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The point you're missing is no matter the belief, terrorists must have the ABILITY to turn their belief into reality. No doubt the terrorists must be defeated- which means keeping them from mobilizing the masses- but the attempt to try and paint them as this generation's Nazis or commies is over blown hype.

Yes terrorists will continue to attack power structures- not just 'The West'- because they want to take control of local states- but could give a damn about us past removing our support for those who suppress the locals. No doubt a few dream of an entire world converted to Islam, just like some dream of a world converted to Communism, or capitalism, or baptist for that matter.

If we stop propping up petty dictators there is a way to cut off the people from the terrorists- the problem now is the people have been so repressed the terrorists seem to be the only way to effect change.

We created Iran by replacing a democracy with a tyrant. When the people began to object we doubled down and supported his suppressing the people with the same tactics we decried in the USSR.

We need to revisit our positions and methods to try and maintain a Pax Americana..... :peace
 
Crovax said:
And do you think leaving ISIS alone in the middle east and not fighting them will make them stronger or weaker? "Commies" and al-queda didnt succeed because we fought them, we didnt have this phony belief that our intervention in their affairs was the only reason they existed in the first place
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Did I say leave them alone? You are making crap up. :roll:

Actually the commies were CONTAINED, where we fought them- Vietnam, we lost. The peoples of Eastern Europe threw off communism- we didn't invade the Warsaw Pact. :doh

al-Queera was defeated because they depended on a single leader, not because we won any battle with them. Far more to the point is a multi-pronged effort, just military action will drain us before we defeat each new wave of terrorist. As long as the people see a grievance not being addressed they will at the very least look the other way while terrorists kill. We should note the terrorists are evolving as well. Now they understand technology and use ours against us. We think corporate, they think grass roots. We think killing a leader like Been Hidin hurts the terrorists-it doesn't, another is eager to step up, and learns what not to do.

We 'won' in Iraq because FINALLY BushII saw the benefit of paying the Sunni leadership to not support al-Queera. If we continue to think killing is the only solution we just feed the propaganda machine for the terrorists and they will continue to be supported.... :peace
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Read more @: ​ISIS Is Not Waging a War Against Western Civilization

Its not a war on "western democracy", its not a war on "western civilization". Its a war on those who block ISISs' path to power. [/FONT][/COLOR]
Click to expand...



So the kids at the eagles of death metal show, and the patrons at those parisian cafe's are blocking ISIS's path to power?


What next, are we to believe they aren't islamic?


In the Name of Allah, the Most Merciful, the Most Beneficent

Allah (ta'ala) said, {They thought that their fortresses would protect them from Allah but Allah came upon them from where they had not expected, and He cast terror into their hearts so they destroyed their houses by their own hands and the hands of the believers. So take warning, O people of vision} [Al-Hashr:2].

In a blessed battle whose causes of success were enabled by Allah, a group of believers from the soldiers of the Caliphate (may Allah strengthen and support it) set out targeting the capital of prostitution and vice, the lead carrier of the cross in Europe-Paris. This group of believers were youth who divorced the worldly life and advanced towards their enemy hoping to be killed for Allah's sake, doing so in support of His religion, His Prophet (blessing and peace be upon him), and His allies. They did so in spite of His enemies. Thus, they were truthful with Allah — we consider them so — and Allah granted victory upon their hands and cast terror into the hearts of the crusaders in their very own homeland.

And so eight brothers equipped with explosive belts and assault rifles attacked precisely chosen targets in the center of the capital of France. These targets included the Stade de France stadium during a soccer match — between the teams of Germany and France, both of which are crusader nations — attended by the imbecile of France (Francois Hollande). The targets included the Bataclan theatre for exhibitions, where hundreds of pagans gathered for a concert of prostitution and vice. There were also simultaneous attacks on other targets in the tenth, eleventh, and eighteenth districts, and elsewhere. Paris was thereby shaken beneath the crusaders' feet, who were constricted by its streets. The result of the attacks was the deaths of no less than two hundred crusaders and the wounding of even more. All praise, grace, and favor belong to Allah.

Allah blessed our brothers and granted them what they desired. They detonated their explosive belts in the masses of the disbelievers after finishing all their ammunition. We ask Allah to accept them amongst the martyrs and to allow us to follow them.

Let France and all nations following its path know that they will continue to be at the top of the target list for the Islamic State and that the scent of death will not leave their nostrils as long as they partake in the crusader campaign, as long as they dare to curse our Prophet (blessings and peace be upon him), and as long as they boast about their war against Islam in France and their strikes against Muslims in the lands of the Caliphate with their jets, which were of no avail to them in the filthy streets and alleys of Paris. Indeed, this is just the beginning. It is also a warning for any who wish to take heed.

Allah is the greatest.

(And to Allah belongs all honor, and to His Messenger, and to the believers, but the hypocrites do not know) [Al-Munafiqun:



So while I agree, they are targeting those who block thier "path to power", it is ignorant to say they are also not at war with western civilization for thier values as you can clearly see, it's an issue to them.


Why do lefties have to make the bad guys look less bad?
 
WHAT IF it is true that ISIS is a creature of western spook agencies, CIA and Mossad? It's funny how they never attack Israel.

If that were true, how does it change the calculation?
 
notquiteright said:
The point you're missing is no matter the belief, terrorists must have the ABILITY to turn their belief into reality.
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That's a well recognized fact. They won't be destroying Western civilization by murdering civilians every now and then. That was not questioned.

Yes terrorists will continue to attack power structures- not just 'The West'- because they want to take control of local states
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This is where you're wrong. They don't merely want 'local states', that is a false assertion and it's the same one that the OP is implying and is thus misleading in doing so.
 
Apocalypse said:
That's a well recognized fact. They won't be destroying Western civilization by murdering civilians every now and then. That was not questioned. This is where you're wrong. They don't merely want 'local states', that is a false assertion and it's the same one that the OP is implying and is thus misleading in doing so.
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I'm comfortable with history, long term and very personal on my side...

They won't be destroying our civilization because they lack that ability. Wanting control over their region isn't 'merely' a desire. It is a huge untertaking. Attacking the west is trying to pry the outside powers away from an internal struggle... :peace
 
notquiteright said:
I'm comfortable with history, long term and very personal on my side...

They won't be destroying our civilization because they lack that ability.
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And again that's a well recognized fact. I'm surprised that you keep mentioning it when I'm saying that it's not the point. It is as if you're incapable of understanding what you're replying to.

Wanting control over their region isn't 'merely' a desire. It is a huge untertaking. Attacking the west is trying to pry the outside powers away from an internal struggle... :peace
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According to what? You maintain this baseless claim yet offer nothing to base it on. It's a made-up assertion you've simply decided to adopt for whatever given reason, perhaps it makes you feel better believing so. Either way it's quite irrelevant here due to the fact it's a baseless assertion and nothing more. :shrug:
 
notquiteright said:
How is our war on drugs going???

Do the words- "bear any burden, pay any price" sound familiar???

Terrorists have always been a problem for the dominate world powers- but you'd have to be historically ignorant to think they have any chance of making their goals a reality... :peace
Click to expand...

How is our war on poverty going? How is our war against crime going?

So long as some people think that their right to break the law for their own gain exists, we will have such problems. But does that mean we should simply sit back and do nothing?

One thing that can be said for responding to such things with force and violence, it acts as a deterence towards others who might join such a cause. And it worked for decades for the KKK, until the people started to fight against them with the help of the Government. Now instead of holding marches in DC, they hide in basements and corners like the rats they are. Inconsequential and scorned by everybody.
 
Oozlefinch said:
How is our war on poverty going? How is our war against crime going? So long as some people think that their right to break the law for their own gain exists, we will have such problems. But does that mean we should simply sit back and do nothing? One thing that can be said for responding to such things with force and violence, it acts as a deterence towards others who might join such a cause. And it worked for decades for the KKK, until the people started to fight against them with the help of the Government. Now instead of holding marches in DC, they hide in basements and corners like the rats they are. Inconsequential and scorned by everybody.
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I wonder how many times those who respond to my posts in here will resort to the silly counter of - "what, sit back and do nothing?" :doh

Crap onna cracker people, I never said that, I did say this ain't a war against 'Western Civilization'...

This is a regional war where a group in opposition to the puppets we prop up or take down at our whim has slowly been radicalized to the point where 'by any means necessary' is THEIR creed.

It is a war against Western domination of their region. Quite simply if there was no oil we could give a tinker's damn- look at much of Africa... :peace
 
notquiteright said:
I wonder how many times those who respond to my posts in here will resort to the silly counter of - "what, sit back and do nothing?" :doh

Crap onna cracker people, I never said that, I did say this ain't a war against 'Western Civilization'...

This is a regional war where a group in opposition to the puppets we prop up or take down at our whim has slowly been radicalized to the point where 'by any means necessary' is THEIR creed.

It is a war against Western domination of their region. Quite simply if there was no oil we could give a tinker's damn- look at much of Africa... :peace
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Yea, never heard of the United States Africa Command, have you? Which has been operating in Africa for over a decade now. With ongoing operations in the Horn of Africa since 2002.

Nor a little incident you probably never heard of a Somalia about 2 decades ago.

Nor the 8 year long mission in places like Mali, Chad, Algeria, Niger, Senegal, and a dozen other countries.

Yea, those are all about oil too, right?

And yea, that oil from former Yugoslavia is simply pouring into the US, right?

Or how about all that oil from Lebanon. That is why we went in there in 1982, right? And in 1958, all that Lebanese oil.

Sorry, I find it juvenile and childish whenever people simply go "der, it's about the oil". Especially since the country in the region that we have had the longest and closest relationship with has no meaningful oil reserves at all.

I am still of the belief that whenever soembody goes "It is all about XXX commodity", what they really mean is "To me it is all about XXX commodity". Good thing that there are people like me, who really care about the people of a region and not whatever commodities they may have.
 
Oozlefinch said:
Yea, never heard of the United States Africa Command, have you? Which has been operating in Africa for over a decade now. With ongoing operations in the Horn of Africa since 2002. Nor a little incident you probably never heard of a Somalia about 2 decades ago. Nor the 8 year long mission in places like Mali, Chad, Algeria, Niger, Senegal, and a dozen other countries. Yea, those are all about oil too, right? And yea, that oil from former Yugoslavia is simply pouring into the US, right? Or how about all that oil from Lebanon. That is why we went in there in 1982, right? And in 1958, all that Lebanese oil. Sorry, I find it juvenile and childish whenever people simply go "der, it's about the oil". Especially since the country in the region that we have had the longest and closest relationship with has no meaningful oil reserves at all. I am still of the belief that whenever soembody goes "It is all about XXX commodity", what they really mean is "To me it is all about XXX commodity". Good thing that there are people like me, who really care about the people of a region and not whatever commodities they may have.
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Dial it down a bit, I have heard of our world wide commands- but have you heard of Darfur? Uganda, Rwanda.... hell we barely twitch over Nigerian children being rounded up by the hundreds...

Oh yes Somalia, a great full court press... how did that turn out?

We commit a nit to regions that lack exploitable natural resources- will spend billions bribing Egypt and Israel to not fight, billions of dollars and thousands of lives to 'plant seeds of democracy' in oil rich Iraq- but where is a similar commitment to Nigeria? How about Darfur?

No a pittance in other nations doesn't balance the huge expenditure in the oil regions.... Saudi gets a pass when they provided the 9/11 pilots but Darfur gets what again?

You can wrap yourself up in some holy hair shirt- but the facts are simple- we don't go to war over orphans, or hundreds of schoolkids- we go to war over oil... don't threaten our oil connect... :peace
 
notquiteright said:
Dial it down a bit, I have heard of our world wide commands- but have you heard of Darfur? Uganda, Rwanda.... hell we barely twitch over Nigerian children being rounded up by the hundreds...
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Yes, and I have spoken up about these very issues myself many times. You can also throw in Cambodia if you like.

However, now comes the real question. What do we do about it?

Well, the UN has shown it is pretty useless in such incidents, so who is left? Should the US play "World Police"? NATO?

And BTW< are you even aware that the US is the largest donator of food and aid to Darfur? Roughly $88 million a year (50% of the annual GDP of Darfur).

So what is your solution? Should the US step into every conflict and try to mediate it?

Give an answer, not just conspiracy laden nonsense.
 
notquiteright said:
Considering anyone can claim anything as their ultimate goal- it's the ABILITY to carry out the multitude of tasks required one needs to scrutinize...

al-Queera had the same goal... where are they?

Commies were going to take over the world.... how did that work out???

How is our war on drugs going???

Do the words- "bear any burden, pay any price" sound familiar???

Terrorists have always been a problem for the dominate world powers- but you'd have to be historically ignorant to think they have any chance of making their goals a reality... :peace
Click to expand...


Oh good grief. Saying that Jihadists are at war with Western Civilization says NOTHING about their ability to achieve those goals. The reason jihadists can't achieve those goals is that we are better at killing them than they are at killing us.
 
Henry David said:
WHAT IF it is true that ISIS is a creature of western spook agencies, CIA and Mossad? It's funny how they never attack Israel.

If that were true, how does it change the calculation?
Click to expand...

You seem to have misclicked, you are not in the Conspiracy forum
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
Why do lefties have to make the bad guys look less bad?
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Because their shared loathing of the United States makes them natural allies. When the run-of-the-mill leftist dim bulb is not running down this country, he is carrying water for its enemies. Leftists are Muslim jihadists' useful idiots--their fifth column in the West. Andy McCarthy described this unholy alliance in detail in "The Grand Jihad: How Islam and the Left Sabotage America."

B. Hussein Obama is one of these people. Ted Cruz had it exactly right when he said recently that Obama does not wish to defend this country. He certainly is doing a damned half-hearted job of it.
 
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