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The Roots of Muslim Rage

Jack Hays

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I have had to post this often enough that I decided it deserved its own thread. This was written in 1990, before Desert Storm. Islamic terrorism does not result from anything we have done or not done. Rather, the poverty and weakness of Muslim lands compared to the wealth and power of the West seems to mock Allah, and by extension those who follow Him. They don't "hate us for our freedom" but they hate us for our wealth and power, which are rooted in our freedom, and for their own weakness and poverty, which make them feel humiliated.

The Roots of Muslim Rage - 90.09

ragehd.gif

Why so many Muslims deeply resent the West, and why their bitterness will not easily be mollified

by Bernard Lewis

The online version of this article appears in two parts. Click here to go to part two.
IN one of his letters Thomas Jefferson remarked that in matters of religion "the maxim of civil government" should be reversed and we should rather say, "Divided we stand, united, we fall." In this remark Jefferson was setting forth with classic terseness an idea that has come to be regarded as essentially American: the separation of Church and State. This idea was not entirely new; it had some precedents in the writings of Spinoza, Locke, and the philosophers of the European Enlightenment. It was in the United States, however, that the principle was first given the force of law and gradually, in the course of two centuries, became a reality. . . .
Islam is one of the world's great religions. Let me be explicit about what I, as a historian of Islam who is not a Muslim, mean by that. Islam has brought comfort and peace of mind to countless millions of men and women. It has given dignity and meaning to drab and impoverished lives. It has taught people of different races to live in brotherhood and people of different creeds to live side by side in reasonable tolerance. It inspired a great civilization in which others besides Muslims lived creative and useful lives and which, by its achievement, enriched the whole world. But Islam, like other religions, has also known periods when it inspired in some of its followers a mood of hatred and violence. It is our misfortune that part, though by no means all or even most, of the Muslim world is now going through such a period, and that much, though again not all, of that hatred is directed against us. . . .
 
Makes sense, I suppose. I'd be pretty ****ing pissed off in their position, though I'd hope I was informed enough to be pissed at my own government for being so corrupt.
 
I have had to post this often enough that I decided it deserved its own thread. This was written in 1990, before Desert Storm. Islamic terrorism does not result from anything we have done or not done. Rather, the poverty and weakness of Muslim lands compared to the wealth and power of the West seems to mock Allah, and by extension those who follow Him. They don't "hate us for our freedom" but they hate us for our wealth and power, which are rooted in our freedom, and for their own weakness and poverty, which make them feel humiliated.

The Roots of Muslim Rage - 90.09

ragehd.gif

Why so many Muslims deeply resent the West, and why their bitterness will not easily be mollified

by Bernard Lewis

The online version of this article appears in two parts. Click here to go to part two.
IN one of his letters Thomas Jefferson remarked that in matters of religion "the maxim of civil government" should be reversed and we should rather say, "Divided we stand, united, we fall." In this remark Jefferson was setting forth with classic terseness an idea that has come to be regarded as essentially American: the separation of Church and State. This idea was not entirely new; it had some precedents in the writings of Spinoza, Locke, and the philosophers of the European Enlightenment. It was in the United States, however, that the principle was first given the force of law and gradually, in the course of two centuries, became a reality. . . .
Islam is one of the world's great religions. Let me be explicit about what I, as a historian of Islam who is not a Muslim, mean by that. Islam has brought comfort and peace of mind to countless millions of men and women. It has given dignity and meaning to drab and impoverished lives. It has taught people of different races to live in brotherhood and people of different creeds to live side by side in reasonable tolerance. It inspired a great civilization in which others besides Muslims lived creative and useful lives and which, by its achievement, enriched the whole world. But Islam, like other religions, has also known periods when it inspired in some of its followers a mood of hatred and violence. It is our misfortune that part, though by no means all or even most, of the Muslim world is now going through such a period, and that much, though again not all, of that hatred is directed against us. . . .

That's part of it...but it is a great mistake to ignore what America - and (to a much greater degree) England - has done that resulted in so much of the unrest and resultant poverty endemic in much of the ME. This isn't laying the blame for the Paris attacks at our own feet - but England made certain freaking huge miscalculations in the region, and America followed them with grand miscalculations of our own. Islam, then, is not the reason for the attacks...but the excuse for making them.

And note the bolded and underlined parts of your quote - most Americans (particularly those on the Right) simply don't get that the overwhelming majority of Muslims are affiliated with and do not support the extremists...but the extremists are the ones who are getting the publicity, and so drown out that "silent majority" of Islam.
 
I have had to post this often enough that I decided it deserved its own thread. This was written in 1990, before Desert Storm. Islamic terrorism does not result from anything we have done or not done. Rather, the poverty and weakness of Muslim lands compared to the wealth and power of the West seems to mock Allah, and by extension those who follow Him. They don't "hate us for our freedom" but they hate us for our wealth and power, which are rooted in our freedom, and for their own weakness and poverty, which make them feel humiliated.

The Roots of Muslim Rage - 90.09

ragehd.gif

Why so many Muslims deeply resent the West, and why their bitterness will not easily be mollified

by Bernard Lewis

The online version of this article appears in two parts. Click here to go to part two.
IN one of his letters Thomas Jefferson remarked that in matters of religion "the maxim of civil government" should be reversed and we should rather say, "Divided we stand, united, we fall." In this remark Jefferson was setting forth with classic terseness an idea that has come to be regarded as essentially American: the separation of Church and State. This idea was not entirely new; it had some precedents in the writings of Spinoza, Locke, and the philosophers of the European Enlightenment. It was in the United States, however, that the principle was first given the force of law and gradually, in the course of two centuries, became a reality. . . .
Islam is one of the world's great religions. Let me be explicit about what I, as a historian of Islam who is not a Muslim, mean by that. Islam has brought comfort and peace of mind to countless millions of men and women. It has given dignity and meaning to drab and impoverished lives. It has taught people of different races to live in brotherhood and people of different creeds to live side by side in reasonable tolerance. It inspired a great civilization in which others besides Muslims lived creative and useful lives and which, by its achievement, enriched the whole world. But Islam, like other religions, has also known periods when it inspired in some of its followers a mood of hatred and violence. It is our misfortune that part, though by no means all or even most, of the Muslim world is now going through such a period, and that much, though again not all, of that hatred is directed against us. . . .

What do you suggest to get them to stop acting on their jealousy?
 
That's part of it...but it is a great mistake to ignore what America - and (to a much greater degree) England - has done that resulted in so much of the unrest and resultant poverty endemic in much of the ME. This isn't laying the blame for the Paris attacks at our own feet - but England made certain freaking huge miscalculations in the region, and America followed them with grand miscalculations of our own. Islam, then, is not the reason for the attacks...but the excuse for making them.

And note the bolded and underlined parts of your quote - most Americans (particularly those on the Right) simply don't get that the overwhelming majority of Muslims are affiliated with and do not support the extremists...but the extremists are the ones who are getting the publicity, and so drown out that "silent majority" of Islam.

Unfortunately that silent majority is also supporting their extremist brethren. That IS crux of the problem. ISIS and Al Qaeda and the rest would be but a poor facsimile of their current selves without that support. It is the support which allows the vermin to thrive and be as effective as they are.
 
I have had to post this often enough that I decided it deserved its own thread. This was written in 1990, before Desert Storm. Islamic terrorism does not result from anything we have done or not done. Rather, the poverty and weakness of Muslim lands compared to the wealth and power of the West seems to mock Allah, and by extension those who follow Him. They don't "hate us for our freedom" but they hate us for our wealth and power, which are rooted in our freedom, and for their own weakness and poverty, which make them feel humiliated.

The Roots of Muslim Rage - 90.09

ragehd.gif

Why so many Muslims deeply resent the West, and why their bitterness will not easily be mollified
This is one man's opinion. He offers no others, and makes not justifications for his claims/findings.

It is also a quarter century old,before the current never-going-to-end wars, idiotic wars like Bush's invasion and growing military pressure all around them with bases from China, US, Russia, France etc. So far out of date he is talking about "Muslim Rage" and how they "resent" the west, their bitterness will not be mollified. These are words of the Bush era, it was a different world then. It has changed dramatically making this piece a nice academic exersize.

FOR a long time now there has been a rising tide of rebellion against this Western paramountcy, and a desire to reassert Muslim values and restore Muslim greatness. The Muslim has suffered successive stages of defeat. The first was his loss of domination in the world, to the advancing power of Russia and the West. The second was the undermining of his authority in his own country, through an invasion of foreign ideas and laws and ways of life and sometimes even foreign rulers or settlers, and the enfranchisement of native non-Muslim elements. The third -- the last straw -- was the challenge to his mastery in his own house, from emancipated women and rebellious children. It was too much to endure, and the outbreak of rage against these alien, infidel, and incomprehensible forces that had subverted his dominance, disrupted his society, and finally violated the sanctuary of his home was inevitable. It was also natural that this rage should be directed primarily against the millennial enemy and should draw its strength from ancient beliefs and loyalties.


Note the bold was written as the US was launching Operation Desert Storm. The consequences of that had not even been imagined; what we do know is that the insults of no longer being the master of his land, his undermining of his authority in his own country, foreign ideas and laws and ways of life, foreign rulers and the awful one the challenge to his mastery in his own house, to treat women like dogs.

He writes this with tame language then, and was very likely accurate. But to suggest this 35 year old opinion shows that US involvement, invasions, air strikes, regime change, and other insults have nothing to do with the "war on terror" is to deliberately mislead.

Even the US state department acknowledges that terror has dramatically increased since the launch of the "War on Terror"

According to a graph by U.S State Department, terrorist attacks have escalated worldwide since the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq.[17] Dame Eliza Manningham Buller, the former head of MI5, told the Iraq inquiry, the security services warned Tony Blair launching the War on Terror would increase the threat of terrorism.[17][better source needed] Robert Pape has argued that at least terrorists utilizing suicide attacks – a particularly effective[18] form of terrorist attack – are driven not by Islamism but by "a clear strategic objective: to compel modern democracies to withdraw military forces from the territory that the terrorists view as their homeland."[1https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism
 
What do you suggest to get them to stop acting on their jealousy?

Go to parties, beaches, and have all the fun one can have, and carefully record the incidents and portray them in global sites such as Facebook. Perhaps one can handle jealousy up to a degree, after which either they become apes or they abandon the jealousy path and seek out a life for themselves.
 
Unfortunately that silent majority is also supporting their extremist brethren. That IS crux of the problem. ISIS and Al Qaeda and the rest would be but a poor facsimile of their current selves without that support. It is the support which allows the vermin to thrive and be as effective as they are.

How so?
 
That's part of it...but it is a great mistake to ignore what America - and (to a much greater degree) England - has done that resulted in so much of the unrest and resultant poverty endemic in much of the ME.

Yea, I guess that England should have left them as part of the Ottoman Empire. Things were so much better then we all know.
 
I have had to post this often enough that I decided it deserved its own thread. This was written in 1990, before Desert Storm. Islamic terrorism does not result from anything we have done or not done. Rather, the poverty and weakness of Muslim lands compared to the wealth and power of the West seems to mock Allah, and by extension those who follow Him. They don't "hate us for our freedom" but they hate us for our wealth and power, which are rooted in our freedom, and for their own weakness and poverty, which make them feel humiliated.

The Roots of Muslim Rage - 90.09

ragehd.gif

Why so many Muslims deeply resent the West, and why their bitterness will not easily be mollified

by Bernard Lewis

The online version of this article appears in two parts. Click here to go to part two.
IN one of his letters Thomas Jefferson remarked that in matters of religion "the maxim of civil government" should be reversed and we should rather say, "Divided we stand, united, we fall." In this remark Jefferson was setting forth with classic terseness an idea that has come to be regarded as essentially American: the separation of Church and State. This idea was not entirely new; it had some precedents in the writings of Spinoza, Locke, and the philosophers of the European Enlightenment. It was in the United States, however, that the principle was first given the force of law and gradually, in the course of two centuries, became a reality. . . .
Islam is one of the world's great religions. Let me be explicit about what I, as a historian of Islam who is not a Muslim, mean by that. Islam has brought comfort and peace of mind to countless millions of men and women. It has given dignity and meaning to drab and impoverished lives. It has taught people of different races to live in brotherhood and people of different creeds to live side by side in reasonable tolerance. It inspired a great civilization in which others besides Muslims lived creative and useful lives and which, by its achievement, enriched the whole world. But Islam, like other religions, has also known periods when it inspired in some of its followers a mood of hatred and violence. It is our misfortune that part, though by no means all or even most, of the Muslim world is now going through such a period, and that much, though again not all, of that hatred is directed against us. . . .

Honestly, who gives a **** why they are enraged? Is it not enough that they behave the way they do?
 

Who do you think they get their money men and support from? I suggest from the rest of the Muslim community. Where else would they come from?
 
Go to parties, beaches, and have all the fun one can have, and carefully record the incidents and portray them in global sites such as Facebook. Perhaps one can handle jealousy up to a degree, after which either they become apes or they abandon the jealousy path and seek out a life for themselves.

How would you deal with the subsequent bombings and other terroristic incidents in the mean time?
 
Honestly, who gives a **** why they are enraged? Is it not enough that they behave the way they do?

I remember when my 2 year old was enraged I would not give him another cookie before dinner. And he struck me.

He still got a spanking, because that is simply not how we behave as rational human beings.

Myself, I could not care less why they are enraged. They can be enraged all they want, but once they focus that rage on others then I get this strong urge to spank them. However, as they are not 2 years old, those spankings come in various sizes, from 5.56mm and up.
 
How would you deal with the subsequent bombings and other terroristic incidents in the mean time?

Attacks like this are largely symbiotic with ISIS in the Middle East.

To me, the solution seems simple. Work together with Russia and Syria and other ME nations and stomp out ISIS in the region. ISIS, Muslim Brotherhood, all such radical organizations must be stomped down and in a coordinated manner. Remove them, and most of the sympathizers who answer their call will fall apart.

Now you will never stop all attacks, there will always be angry and bitter individuals who do such things. Christians who bomb Olympic games, Palistinians who assassinate Presidential Candidates. Such things will always happen. But without the urging and support of a group the size of ISIS, they are much smaller and less likely to have an impact.

And of course promote groups and organizations in the ME which actively condemn such behavior. They are out there, but they are largely shouted out by those with the guns and bombs.
 
I have had to post this

<edit for brevity>
This is a really well written article, Jack.

Thank you for posting it.

That's part of it...but it is a great mistake to ignore what America - and (to a much greater degree) England - has done that resulted in so much of the unrest and resultant poverty endemic in much of the ME. This isn't laying the blame for the Paris attacks at our own feet - but England made certain freaking huge miscalculations in the region, and America followed them with grand miscalculations of our own. Islam, then, is not the reason for the attacks...but the excuse for making them.

And note the bolded and underlined parts of your quote - most Americans (particularly those on the Right) simply don't get that the overwhelming majority of Muslims are affiliated with and do not support the extremists...but the extremists are the ones who are getting the publicity, and so drown out that "silent majority" of Islam.
This is one man's opinion. He offers no others, and makes not justifications for his claims/findings.

It is also a quarter century old,before the current never-going-to-end wars, idiotic wars like Bush's invasion and growing military pressure all around them with bases from China, US, Russia, France etc. So far out of date he is talking about "Muslim Rage" and how they "resent" the west, their bitterness will not be mollified. These are words of the Bush era, it was a different world then. It has changed dramatically making this piece a nice academic exersize.

Note the bold was written as the US was launching Operation Desert Storm. The consequences of that had not even been imagined; what we do know is that the insults of no longer being the master of his land, his undermining of his authority in his own country, foreign ideas and laws and ways of life, foreign rulers and the awful one the challenge to his mastery in his own house, to treat women like dogs.

He writes this with tame language then, and was very likely accurate. But to suggest this 35 year old opinion shows that US involvement, invasions, air strikes, regime change, and other insults have nothing to do with the "war on terror" is to deliberately mislead.

Even the US state department acknowledges that terror has dramatically increased since the launch of the "War on Terror"
Excellent points, and I agree - much has transpired in the intervening 35 years since the article was written.

But I believe there's a seminal overarching force here, which the author has astutely recognized: There has never been an all encompassing religious geopolitical reformation involving Islam in the East, as there has been with the Protestant Reformation in the West - effectively decoupling religion from state. [my paraphrased summation]

I believe this item is the crucial element, and the author presented it quite well:

"THE origins of secularism in the west may be found in two circumstances -- in early Christian teachings and, still more, experience, which created two institutions, Church and State; and in later Christian conflicts, which drove the two apart. Muslims, too, had their religious disagreements, but there was nothing remotely approaching the ferocity of the Christian struggles between Protestants and Catholics, which devastated Christian Europe in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries and finally drove Christians in desperation to evolve a doctrine of the separation of religion from the state. Only by depriving religious institutions of coercive power, it seemed, could Christendom restrain the murderous intolerance and persecution that Christians had visited on followers of other religions and, most of all, on those who professed other forms of their own.

Muslims experienced no such need and evolved no such doctrine. There was no need for secularism in Islam, and even its pluralism was very different from that of the pagan Roman Empire, so vividly described by Edward Gibbon when he remarked that "the various modes of worship, which prevailed in the Roman world, were all considered by the people, as equally true; by the philosopher, as equally false; and by the magistrate, as equally useful." Islam was never prepared, either in theory or in practice, to accord full equality to those who held other beliefs and practiced other forms of worship. It did, however, accord to the holders of partial truth a degree of practical as well as theoretical tolerance rarely paralleled in the Christian world until the West adopted a measure of secularism in the late-seventeenth and eighteenth centuries."
 
Last edited:
That's part of it...but it is a great mistake to ignore what America - and (to a much greater degree) England - has done that resulted in so much of the unrest and resultant poverty endemic in much of the ME. This isn't laying the blame for the Paris attacks at our own feet - but England made certain freaking huge miscalculations in the region, and America followed them with grand miscalculations of our own. Islam, then, is not the reason for the attacks...but the excuse for making them.

And note the bolded and underlined parts of your quote - most Americans (particularly those on the Right) simply don't get that the overwhelming majority of Muslims are affiliated with and do not support the extremists...but the extremists are the ones who are getting the publicity, and so drown out that "silent majority" of Islam.

Honestly, I don't think you have any business characterizing what "most Americans simply don't get." As a people I think we have bent over backwards to avoid Islamophobia. the point of Lewis's brilliant essay is that the "roots" of Muslim rage predate anything we (or the Brits) have done.
 
Muslim behavior has been so brutal and horrifying to the civilized world that little interest remains in their motivation. The primary focus at this point is containment and defeat. Nothing could be said that would justify their barbarism.
 
I have had to post this often enough that I decided it deserved its own thread. This was written in 1990, before Desert Storm. Islamic terrorism does not result from anything we have done or not done. Rather, the poverty and weakness of Muslim lands compared to the wealth and power of the West seems to mock Allah, and by extension those who follow Him. They don't "hate us for our freedom" but they hate us for our wealth and power, which are rooted in our freedom, and for their own weakness and poverty, which make them feel humiliated.

The Roots of Muslim Rage - 90.09

ragehd.gif

Why so many Muslims deeply resent the West, and why their bitterness will not easily be mollified

by Bernard Lewis

The online version of this article appears in two parts. Click here to go to part two.
IN one of his letters Thomas Jefferson remarked that in matters of religion "the maxim of civil government" should be reversed and we should rather say, "Divided we stand, united, we fall." In this remark Jefferson was setting forth with classic terseness an idea that has come to be regarded as essentially American: the separation of Church and State. This idea was not entirely new; it had some precedents in the writings of Spinoza, Locke, and the philosophers of the European Enlightenment. It was in the United States, however, that the principle was first given the force of law and gradually, in the course of two centuries, became a reality. . . .
Islam is one of the world's great religions. Let me be explicit about what I, as a historian of Islam who is not a Muslim, mean by that. Islam has brought comfort and peace of mind to countless millions of men and women. It has given dignity and meaning to drab and impoverished lives. It has taught people of different races to live in brotherhood and people of different creeds to live side by side in reasonable tolerance. It inspired a great civilization in which others besides Muslims lived creative and useful lives and which, by its achievement, enriched the whole world. But Islam, like other religions, has also known periods when it inspired in some of its followers a mood of hatred and violence. It is our misfortune that part, though by no means all or even most, of the Muslim world is now going through such a period, and that much, though again not all, of that hatred is directed against us. . . .

Please edit your punctuation.

I cannot tell where your quote of Jefferson ends.
 
Muslim behavior has been so brutal and horrifying to the civilized world that little interest remains in their motivation. The primary focus at this point is containment and defeat. Nothing could be said that would justify their barbarism.

At least Jihadee John is dead. That little muslim british bastard was simply a serial killer with a religious disguise.

I would have preferred he died by having his own head cut off.

A missile strike was too merciful of a death.
 
I have had to post this often enough that I decided it deserved its own thread. This was written in 1990, before Desert Storm. Islamic terrorism does not result from anything we have done or not done. Rather, the poverty and weakness of Muslim lands compared to the wealth and power of the West seems to mock Allah, and by extension those who follow Him. They don't "hate us for our freedom" but they hate us for our wealth and power, which are rooted in our freedom, and for their own weakness and poverty, which make them feel humiliated.

The Roots of Muslim Rage - 90.09

ragehd.gif

Why so many Muslims deeply resent the West, and why their bitterness will not easily be mollified
This is one man's opinion. He offers no others, and makes not justifications for his claims/findings.

It is also a quarter century old,before the current never-going-to-end wars, idiotic wars like Bush's invasion and growing military pressure all around them with bases from China, US, Russia, France etc. So far out of date he is talking about "Muslim Rage" and how they "resent" the west, their bitterness will not be mollified. These are words of the Bush era, it was a different world then. It has changed dramatically making this piece a nice academic exersize.




Note the bold was written as the US was launching Operation Desert Storm. The consequences of that had not even been imagined; what we do know is that the insults of no longer being the master of his land, his undermining of his authority in his own country, foreign ideas and laws and ways of life, foreign rulers and the awful one the challenge to his mastery in his own house, to treat women like dogs.

He writes this with tame language then, and was very likely accurate. But to suggest this 35 year old opinion shows that US involvement, invasions, air strikes, regime change, and other insults have nothing to do with the "war on terror" is to deliberately mislead.

Even the US state department acknowledges that terror has dramatically increased since the launch of the "War on Terror"

That "one man" was the greatest western scholar of the Muslim world. He was writing during the administration of GHWB, not GWB. Of course attacks have increased since the terrorists began the war. That is what war is.
 
I have had to post this often enough that I decided it deserved its own thread. This was written in 1990, before Desert Storm. Islamic terrorism does not result from anything we have done or not done. Rather, the poverty and weakness of Muslim lands compared to the wealth and power of the West seems to mock Allah, and by extension those who follow Him. They don't "hate us for our freedom" but they hate us for our wealth and power, which are rooted in our freedom, and for their own weakness and poverty, which make them feel humiliated.

The Roots of Muslim Rage - 90.09

ragehd.gif

Why so many Muslims deeply resent the West, and why their bitterness will not easily be mollified

That "one man" was the greatest western scholar of the Muslim world. He was writing during the administration of GHWB, not GWB. Of course attacks have increased since the terrorists began the war. That is what war is.




Where in the world would you get the idea I was referring to GWB.
 
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