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Why the US needs to lower the legal drinking age

Hawkeye10 said:
I am a proponent of teen freedom:

sex 14

Beer/wine 16

Driving 16

booze 18

tobacco 18

pot 18

Military service 18

Gambling 21
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I strongly agree with you there until you say that gambling should be 21. I think it should be lowered to 18.
#teenshaverights
 
Threegoofs said:
This topic is really less about drinking age and more about drunk driving.

The age increase significantly reduced motor vehicle deaths.

So it's pretty clear that reducing the drinking age will quite likely lead to lots of morbidity and mortality- and that increase is literally in the thousands of dead kids. That's a tough trade off.

Higher drinking age saves lives

As a parent to kids in this under 21 age group, it's really challenging. I don't have a problem with the college kids drinking- but getting behind the wheel is verboten.

I think this attitude, at least among the kids I know, is pretty well accepted. Designated drivers with these kids are common, and my kids have been called late at night by many a friend to drive them home from a party. I support that.

It seems to me that some kind of graduated drinking age may make more sense. My son goes to a college towns where bars admit 19 year olds, but they 'can't drink' until they're 21. Makes absolute sense to me, especially since no one is driving. Maybe severe penalties for a detectable BAC for under 21 year olds driving- like automatic suspension of driving.

On the other side of the coin, there's pretty good evidence that the 21 drinking age has just accelerated binge drinking and discouraged moderation. It's a good point, and lots of college Presidents are supporting changing the age back.

Amethyst Initiative » About
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europe has its drinking age at 18 and there aren't as many drunk driving incidents
 
Henrin said:
Teenagers everywhere: I'll do what I want!
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I'll do what I want, ESPECIALLY those things you tell me I should not do.

The Forbidden Fruit Syndrome is still operative.

Other cultures teach youngsters responsible and social use of alcohol, and it works fine. The US culture is hung up over its Judeo Christian Heritage, Puritan inspired.
 
Threegoofs said:
Europe is not as car dependent as the US. Not even close.
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do you feel comfortable with the idea that 18-20 year olds can buy a house, circumvent their parents, vote, and join the military but can't drink?
 
Riveroaks said:
Moses was a brilliant general and prince. He is a good role model. He is the reason that you and I are writing in alpha-bet not in cuneiform.
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I am sure that somebody else would have figured it out...
 
Masterhawk said:
By now, it is no suprise that America's legal drinking age is 21. This was achieved in the National Minimum Drinking Age Act of 1984 in an effort to cut down on drunk driving which threatened to cut off 10% of highway funding to states which did not comply. Politicians have always remained silent about the legal drinking age; even bernie sanders who has won the support of many millennials remains silent about it. Now that elections are coming up, it is time to break the silence and here's why it should be lowered to 18.

1. Double standard: you are old enough to participate in the voting process, join the military, smoke tobacco (except in california), and buy a home at 18 but drinking responsibly requires too much maturity?:confused: Alcolhol has become a big part of america's culture as seen in the extensive amount of beer commercials on sports channels. Smoking tobacco has become increasingly unpopular. Why do you only have to be 18 to smoke but 21 to drink then?

2. the rest of the world frowns upon this: here are all of the countries' legal drinking ages (pic below). The crimson ones have it set at 21 while the black ones are under prohibition. 14 countries have it a 21, only one of which does not have a muslim majority (take notes islamaphobes)
View attachment 67201037

There are people who defend the legal drinking age saying that it saves lives. My counterargument is that banning cars saves even more lives.
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Drinking isn't something that most young people in the US handle well. Let's just be honest.

There's a pervasive mentality that it should be done in excess, that getting wasted is fun. The negatives are touted as the reason why people want to do it. It represents freedom and being away from authority. It's rebellious.

In other countries that allow people to drink at a younger age, however, they have drinking as a more involved part of their culture or family life. I've always had the sense that they're generally more mature and responsible with it save for a few exceptions.

In the US it's the opposite. Teens and young adults are more immature and irresponsible with it save for a few exceptions.

If teens in the US want to drink at a younger age they need to be more responsible with it.

Drinking, unlike driving and joining the military, has no criteria to meet. There's no prerequisite, qualification, or license you must carry. There's no aptitude test and cautionary advisor telling you that maybe this isn't the right path for you to take with your life. Drinking is carte blanche. There's no license and no test.

Perhaps there should be.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Drinking isn't something that most young people in the US handle well. Let's just be honest.

There's a pervasive mentality that it should be done in excess, that getting wasted is fun. The negatives are touted as the reason why people want to do it. It represents freedom and being away from authority. It's rebellious.

In other countries that allow people to drink at a younger age, however, they have drinking as a more involved part of their culture or family life. I've always had the sense that they're generally more mature and responsible with it save for a few exceptions.

In the US it's the opposite. Teens and young adults are more immature and irresponsible with it save for a few exceptions.

If teens in the US want to drink at a younger age they need to be more responsible with it.

Drinking, unlike driving and joining the military, has no criteria to meet. There's no prerequisite, qualification, or license you must carry. There's no aptitude test and cautionary advisor telling you that maybe this isn't the right path for you to take with your life. Drinking is carte blanche. There's no license and no test.

Perhaps there should be.
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It's kind of a chicken and egg thing, which came first? The mature attitude toward alcohol or no age limit?

In the end statistics show that there are just as many alcoholics per capita in those regions as the US and Canada. I don't know the statistics but I suspect alcohol is involved or the direct cause of a lot of deaths we don't realize.

Sociologically it is a coming of age, 'look, I'm an adult". "You're not a man if you can't handle your booze..."
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Drinking isn't something that most young people in the US handle well. Let's just be honest.

There's a pervasive mentality that it should be done in excess, that getting wasted is fun. The negatives are touted as the reason why people want to do it. It represents freedom and being away from authority. It's rebellious.

In other countries that allow people to drink at a younger age, however, they have drinking as a more involved part of their culture or family life. I've always had the sense that they're generally more mature and responsible with it save for a few exceptions.

In the US it's the opposite. Teens and young adults are more immature and irresponsible with it save for a few exceptions.

If teens in the US want to drink at a younger age they need to be more responsible with it.

Drinking, unlike driving and joining the military, has no criteria to meet. There's no prerequisite, qualification, or license you must carry. There's no aptitude test and cautionary advisor telling you that maybe this isn't the right path for you to take with your life. Drinking is carte blanche. There's no license and no test.

Perhaps there should be.
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then the government should create incentives to cut down on the binge drinking culture like europe has. And fund projects for self driving cars.
 
Fearandloathing said:
It's kind of a chicken and egg thing, which came first? The mature attitude toward alcohol or no age limit?

In the end statistics show that there are just as many alcoholics per capita in those regions as the US and Canada. I don't know the statistics but I suspect alcohol is involved or the direct cause of a lot of deaths we don't realize.

Sociologically it is a coming of age, 'look, I'm an adult". "You're not a man if you can't handle your booze..."
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But yeah - it becoming so restricted is part of the reason why teens in the US lose their **** and go overboard with it. They're not taught control and sensible drinking at all. But I think people in the US have ALWAYS had issues with it - from day one - because of our Purism histories and things of that nature. It might have been because of fuel conflicts and oil market domination by people such as Rockefeller, but it was constitutionally banned nonetheless.

Alcoholism isn't the same as dangerous and reckless behavior, though. Alcoholism is like any other addiction in which the person's body becomes desensitized and dependent on the presence of a substance.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
But yeah - it becoming so restricted is part of the reason why teens in the US lose their **** and go overboard with it. They're not taught control and sensible drinking at all. But I think people in the US have ALWAYS had issues with it - from day one - because of our Purism histories and things of that nature. It might have been because of fuel conflicts and oil market domination by people such as Rockefeller, but it was constitutionally banned nonetheless.

Alcoholism isn't the same as dangerous and reckless behavior, though. Alcoholism is like any other addiction in which the person's body becomes desensitized and dependent on the presence of a substance.
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After 25 years of recovery and working with other alcoholic addicts, I have to say that's a myth in terms of addiction. How much a person was restricted from alcoholism, in fact there are almost no single generalizations in the field. I've walked with men who had had 'the odd drink' until suddenly they couldn't stop, people from alcoholic homes who have never drank, and people from fine, loving families; the one and pretty much the only thing we had in common was alcoholism.

I had booze all around me all my life, had an error in my citizenship papers that allowed me to buy liquor at 16 and rarely touched the stuff until my late 20's. My cousins who also had it all around, drank way more than I did, pretty much all quit when they became fathers.

That is one of the great difficulties in treating alcoholism from a psychological standpoint, and why that method rarely works.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Drinking isn't something that most young people in the US handle well. Let's just be honest.

There's a pervasive mentality that it should be done in excess, that getting wasted is fun. The negatives are touted as the reason why people want to do it. It represents freedom and being away from authority. It's rebellious.

In other countries that allow people to drink at a younger age, however, they have drinking as a more involved part of their culture or family life. I've always had the sense that they're generally more mature and responsible with it save for a few exceptions.

In the US it's the opposite. Teens and young adults are more immature and irresponsible with it save for a few exceptions.

If teens in the US want to drink at a younger age they need to be more responsible with it.

Drinking, unlike driving and joining the military, has no criteria to meet. There's no prerequisite, qualification, or license you must carry. There's no aptitude test and cautionary advisor telling you that maybe this isn't the right path for you to take with your life. Drinking is carte blanche. There's no license and no test.

Perhaps there should be.
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Kind of redefines the term "liquor license"...
 
The really high LDA isn't even stopping teens from drinking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOI3ZNidp5A
This video shows both arguements

A far better solution would be to move the lda down to 18 then allow it to go as low as 13 with parental consent. That way, kids can develop healthy drinking habits and drunk driving will plummet.
 
Masterhawk said:
The really high LDA isn't even stopping teens from drinking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOI3ZNidp5A
This video shows both arguements

A far better solution would be to move the lda down to 18 then allow it to go as low as 13 with parental consent. That way, kids can develop healthy drinking habits and drunk driving will plummet.
Click to expand...


Unless it's learn to leave it alone altogether, not going to happen. Quite simply, youth and adult drinking is a problem worldwide. Take a look at where the drinking age is 18 - still massive problems with alcohol.

At least when it's against the law the folks who are under age slow down a bit. Learn to "maintain". And no, drunk driving does not plummet when the drinking age is lowered.

Drink-drive deaths show 26% rise - BBC News
 
clownboy said:
Unless it's learn to leave it alone altogether, not going to happen. Quite simply, youth and adult drinking is a problem worldwide. Take a look at where the drinking age is 18 - still massive problems with alcohol.

At least when it's against the law the folks who are under age slow down a bit. Learn to "maintain". And no, drunk driving does not plummet when the drinking age is lowered.

Drink-drive deaths show 26% rise - BBC News
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I meant that teaching kids a healthy pattern would cause the numbers to plummet as opposed to leaving them on their own when they hit 21
 
Masterhawk said:
By now, it is no suprise that America's legal drinking age is 21. This was achieved in the National Minimum Drinking Age Act of 1984 in an effort to cut down on drunk driving which threatened to cut off 10% of highway funding to states which did not comply. Politicians have always remained silent about the legal drinking age; even bernie sanders who has won the support of many millennials remains silent about it. Now that elections are coming up, it is time to break the silence and here's why it should be lowered to 18.

1. Double standard: you are old enough to participate in the voting process, join the military, smoke tobacco (except in california), and buy a home at 18 but drinking responsibly requires too much maturity?:confused: Alcolhol has become a big part of america's culture as seen in the extensive amount of beer commercials on sports channels. Smoking tobacco has become increasingly unpopular. Why do you only have to be 18 to smoke but 21 to drink then?

2. the rest of the world frowns upon this: here are all of the countries' legal drinking ages (pic below). The crimson ones have it set at 21 while the black ones are under prohibition. 14 countries have it a 21, only one of which does not have a muslim majority (take notes islamaphobes)
View attachment 67201037

There are people who defend the legal drinking age saying that it saves lives. My counterargument is that banning cars saves even more lives.
Click to expand...

A. The "double standard" nonsense is why we now have children voting for president. A 12-year old girl can have a baby therefore she should be able to be president. There's no connect there. When I was working we would have one or two deaths due to alcohol overdose every year and almost all were kids under 21.
B. The rest of the world really doesn't give two hoots for our drinking age and if they didn't I would give two hoots for their opinion.
 
Henrin said:
How did the world ever survive before drinking age laws? The 19th century must have been horrifying.
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Their cars went really, really slow. We are seeing some great reasons for raising the drinking age to 25.
 
Riveroaks said:
Simply put, Moses is one of the few people in history that has had a huge impact on modern times.

If I make a list these are the people on it:

Moses
Jesus
St. Peter
St. Paul
Constantine
Constantine's mother
Pope Gregory
Galileo
Columbus
Queen Isabella of Spain
Elizabeth 1st
Sir Frances Drake
Sir Walter Raleigh
John Locke
Patrick Henry
Benjamin Franklin
George Washington
Wellington
Abe Lincoln
US Grant
John Buford
Chester Nimitz
FDR
Ike
MacArthur
JFK
LBJ
BHO
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BHO, really?
 
Riveroaks said:
Simply put, Moses is one of the few people in history that has had a huge impact on modern times.

If I make a list these are the people on it:

Moses
Jesus
St. Peter
St. Paul
Constantine
Constantine's mother
Pope Gregory
Galileo
Columbus
Queen Isabella of Spain
Elizabeth 1st
Sir Frances Drake
Sir Walter Raleigh
John Locke
Patrick Henry
Benjamin Franklin
George Washington
Wellington
Abe Lincoln
US Grant
John Buford
Chester Nimitz
FDR
Ike
MacArthur
JFK
LBJ
BHO
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I sorta parted ways with the fiction of Moses when he and God supposedly parted the Red Sea.
 
Patrickt said:
Their cars went really, really slow. We are seeing some great reasons for raising the drinking age to 25.
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But drinking is such a big part of our culture. It wouldn't be fair to tell adults that they're underage; adults who can vote, join the military, buy a home, marry, and not be bound to a legal guardian.
 
If you are old enough to vote, then you are an adult citizen.

If you are an adult citizen, you should have ALL the rights of any other adult citizen. PERIOD!

I was active in the movement to lower the voting age to 18, because it was unconscionable that I could be drafted at that age and sent off to a war. To face death or maiming without the right to participate in the government process which decides that I can be sent off like that.

I don't even drink, as I hate both the taste and effects of alcohol. Yet I was, and still am, incensed that a bunch of modern day prohibitionists were able to force the country to prohibit adults from free choice in this regard.

How has that worked BTW? Whether with alcohol (which these citizens STILL get fairly easily only now face criminal liability for) or drugs?

Criminalizing personal vices like this create more problems than they solve. That is always the case with "never again" nanny-state ideology.
 
Captain Adverse said:
If you are old enough to vote, then you are an adult citizen.

If you are an adult citizen, you should have ALL the rights of any other adult citizen. PERIOD!

I was active in the movement to lower the voting age to 18, because it was unconscionable that I could be drafted at that age and sent off to a war. To face death or maiming without the right to participate in the government process which decides that I can be sent off like that.

I don't even drink, as I hate both the taste and effects of alcohol. Yet I was, and still am, incensed that a bunch of modern day prohibitionists were able to force the country to prohibit adults from free choice in this regard.

How has that worked BTW? Whether with alcohol (which these citizens STILL get fairly easily only now face criminal liability for) or drugs?

Criminalizing personal vices like this create more problems than they solve. That is always the case with "never again" nanny-state ideology.
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Wow, so if we lower the voting age to sixteen, they'll be adults. It's like magic, isn't it?
 
Patrickt said:
Wow, so if we lower the voting age to sixteen, they'll be adults. It's like magic, isn't it?
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Physically, and some would argue psychologically, sixteen year-olds ARE adults. They have been treated that way throughout most of human history.

The only magic is how as our society progresses the older we think people need to be in order to be considered adults.
 
Captain Adverse said:
Physically, and some would argue psychologically, sixteen year-olds ARE adults. They have been treated that way throughout most of human history.

The only magic is how as our society progresses the older we think people need to be in order to be considered adults.
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Actually 21 was the age of majority in english common law but 18 was the military age.
 
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