Why is there NOT a war on opioids?

Absentglare · Dec 4, 2015

Opioids are chemically similar to heroin. They are prescribed for serious pain. For some reason, we consider marijuana as more dangerous than hydrocodone or oxycodone. If we have a war on drugs, why do we exclude these ones ?

Who Is Responsible for the Pain-Pill Epidemic? - The New Yorker

FTA, emphasis mine :

"Between 1999 and 2010, sales of these “opioid analgesics”—medications like Vicodin, Percocet, and OxyContin—quadrupled."

"As narcotics prescriptions surged, so did deaths from opioid-analgesic overdoses—from about four thousand to almost seventeen thousand. Studies have shown that patients who receive narcotics for chronic pain are less likely to recover function, and are less likely to go back to work. The potential side effects of prescription narcotics include constipation, sexual dysfunction, cognitive impairment, addiction, and overdosing. When patients receive narcotics for long periods, they can even become more sensitive to pain, a condition called hyperalgesia."

"And then there are the real-life Walter Whites. I once helped care for a patient with lung cancer who wasn’t taking his narcotics, unbeknownst to his doctors. This patient’s cancer had spread to his bones and other organs, which can be incredibly painful. But he was selling his prescription narcotics to help support his wife and himself. So when given these high-dose narcotics in the hospital, he overdosed—though not fatally, fortunately."

"In a policy drafted by several people with ties to narcotics makers, including Haddox, the Federation of State Medical Boards called on the boards to punish doctors for inadequately treating pain, according to the Wall Street Journal. The Federation also reportedly accepted money from pharmaceutical firms to produce and distribute narcotics-prescribing guidelines."

"In 2007, Purdue Pharma and three of its top executives pleaded guilty to criminal charges that they had misled the F.D.A., clinicians, and patients about the risks of OxyContin addiction and abuse by aggressively marketing the drug to providers and patients as a safe alternative to short-acting narcotics."

Ray410 · Dec 4, 2015

Absentglare said:
Opioids are chemically similar to heroin. They are prescribed for serious pain. For some reason, we consider marijuana as more dangerous than hydrocodone or oxycodone. If we have a war on drugs, why do we exclude these ones ?

Who Is Responsible for the Pain-Pill Epidemic? - The New Yorker

FTA, emphasis mine :

"Between 1999 and 2010, sales of these “opioid analgesics”—medications like Vicodin, Percocet, and OxyContin—quadrupled."

"As narcotics prescriptions surged, so did deaths from opioid-analgesic overdoses—from about four thousand to almost seventeen thousand. Studies have shown that patients who receive narcotics for chronic pain are less likely to recover function, and are less likely to go back to work. The potential side effects of prescription narcotics include constipation, sexual dysfunction, cognitive impairment, addiction, and overdosing. When patients receive narcotics for long periods, they can even become more sensitive to pain, a condition called hyperalgesia."

"And then there are the real-life Walter Whites. I once helped care for a patient with lung cancer who wasn’t taking his narcotics, unbeknownst to his doctors. This patient’s cancer had spread to his bones and other organs, which can be incredibly painful. But he was selling his prescription narcotics to help support his wife and himself. So when given these high-dose narcotics in the hospital, he overdosed—though not fatally, fortunately."

"In a policy drafted by several people with ties to narcotics makers, including Haddox, the Federation of State Medical Boards called on the boards to punish doctors for inadequately treating pain, according to the Wall Street Journal. The Federation also reportedly accepted money from pharmaceutical firms to produce and distribute narcotics-prescribing guidelines."

"In 2007, Purdue Pharma and three of its top executives pleaded guilty to criminal charges that they had misled the F.D.A., clinicians, and patients about the risks of OxyContin addiction and abuse by aggressively marketing the drug to providers and patients as a safe alternative to short-acting narcotics."

What do you plan to give people in real, intractable pain? Or did your zeal only extend as far as taking away their pain relief?

clownboy · Dec 4, 2015

Easy to answer - because the dosages are stable and thus doctors are able to prescribe them to treat pain effectively without addiction. The problem comes when the patient doesn't follow the prescribed course of treatment. This is called abuse, and there is already a war on that abuse.

If you think otherwise, just try to sell your prescribed opiate. You'll be cuffed, booked and arraigned just like any other drug dealer.

Absentglare · Dec 4, 2015

Ray410 said:
What do you plan to give people in real, intractable pain? Or did your zeal only extend as far as taking away their pain relief?

Are opioids the only option for pain relief available?

I don't want to take drugs away from anyone. We have a war on drugs because they're so dangerous. Why are these drugs considered 'safe' ?

Ray410 · Dec 4, 2015

Absentglare said:
Are opioids the only option for pain relief available?

I think the responsible thing would have been to have a comprehensive answer for that question before starting your crusade.

Opioids are used because they work and have improved the lives of millions of sick and injured people. Be very careful what you advocate before screwing with the lives of others.

Absentglare · Dec 4, 2015

Ray410 said:
I think the responsible thing would have been to have a comprehensive answer for that question before starting your crusade.

Opioids are used because they work and have improved the lives of millions of sick and injured people. Be very careful what you advocate before screwing with the lives of others.

It was a rhetorical question, of course there are alternatives.

Screwing with the lives of others ?

I'm not the one screwing with anyone's lives. Marijuana is considered too dangerous for medical study. We hand out pill-form heroin like candy on halloween. The question is why ?

clownboy · Dec 4, 2015

Absentglare said:
Are opioids the only option for pain relief available?

I don't want to take drugs away from anyone. We have a war on drugs because they're so dangerous. Why are these drugs considered 'safe' ?

Again, since you don't appear to be listening, they are safe when used as directed by the prescribing physician. And yes, they are the most effective drugs we have for the types of pain for which they are prescribed.

Absentglare · Dec 4, 2015

clownboy said:
Again, since you don't appear to be listening, they are safe when used as directed by the prescribing physician. And yes, they are the most effective drugs we have for the types of pain for which they are prescribed.

No they aren't.

"Opioids impact the brain, leading to temporary feelings of intense pleasure. Addiction to opioids can develop very quickly, even with minimal use. The addiction can be physical, in that a habitual user’s body craves the drug. It can also be mental, in that a user consciously desires the drug’s effects. A person who is addicted to opioids will do whatever it takes to get more of the drug, regardless of the risks or consequences.

Long-term opioid use has serious health consequences, including brain damage. Opioid abuse can impair the brain’s production of natural painkillers and dopamine (the brain’s “feel-good” chemical)."

Opioids and related disorders | Definition and Patient Education

clownboy · Dec 4, 2015

Absentglare said:
It was a rhetorical question, of course there are alternatives.

Screwing with the lives of others ?

I'm not the one screwing with anyone's lives. Marijuana is considered too dangerous for medical study. We hand out pill-form heroin like candy on halloween. The question is why ?

Thought that might be coming. Educate yourself. It's about dosage and effective ingredients. And bull****, marijuana is not considered to be "too dangerous for medical study" - there is no such classification. In fact marijuana has been studied for medical use for several decades.

Riveroaks · Dec 4, 2015

Absentglare said:
Opioids are chemically similar to heroin. They are prescribed for serious pain. For some reason, we consider marijuana as more dangerous than hydrocodone or oxycodone. If we have a war on drugs, why do we exclude these ones ?

Who Is Responsible for the Pain-Pill Epidemic? - The New Yorker

FTA, emphasis mine :

"Between 1999 and 2010, sales of these “opioid analgesics”—medications like Vicodin, Percocet, and OxyContin—quadrupled."

"As narcotics prescriptions surged, so did deaths from opioid-analgesic overdoses—from about four thousand to almost seventeen thousand. Studies have shown that patients who receive narcotics for chronic pain are less likely to recover function, and are less likely to go back to work. The potential side effects of prescription narcotics include constipation, sexual dysfunction, cognitive impairment, addiction, and overdosing. When patients receive narcotics for long periods, they can even become more sensitive to pain, a condition called hyperalgesia."

"And then there are the real-life Walter Whites. I once helped care for a patient with lung cancer who wasn’t taking his narcotics, unbeknownst to his doctors. This patient’s cancer had spread to his bones and other organs, which can be incredibly painful. But he was selling his prescription narcotics to help support his wife and himself. So when given these high-dose narcotics in the hospital, he overdosed—though not fatally, fortunately."

"In a policy drafted by several people with ties to narcotics makers, including Haddox, the Federation of State Medical Boards called on the boards to punish doctors for inadequately treating pain, according to the Wall Street Journal. The Federation also reportedly accepted money from pharmaceutical firms to produce and distribute narcotics-prescribing guidelines."

"In 2007, Purdue Pharma and three of its top executives pleaded guilty to criminal charges that they had misled the F.D.A., clinicians, and patients about the risks of OxyContin addiction and abuse by aggressively marketing the drug to providers and patients as a safe alternative to short-acting narcotics."

After any kind of surgery, you need these.

The drug menace is about illicit drug use not prescription medically indicated drug use.

Riveroaks · Dec 4, 2015

Absentglare said:
Are opioids the only option for pain relief available?

I don't want to take drugs away from anyone. We have a war on drugs because they're so dangerous. Why are these drugs considered 'safe' ?

Wait until YOU have surgery ABS, and then you'll find out for yourself.

MaggieD · Dec 4, 2015

Absentglare said:
Opioids are chemically similar to heroin. They are prescribed for serious pain. For some reason, we consider marijuana as more dangerous than hydrocodone or oxycodone. If we have a war on drugs, why do we exclude these ones ?

Who Is Responsible for the Pain-Pill Epidemic? - The New Yorker

FTA, emphasis mine :

"Between 1999 and 2010, sales of these “opioid analgesics”—medications like Vicodin, Percocet, and OxyContin—quadrupled."

"As narcotics prescriptions surged, so did deaths from opioid-analgesic overdoses—from about four thousand to almost seventeen thousand. Studies have shown that patients who receive narcotics for chronic pain are less likely to recover function, and are less likely to go back to work. The potential side effects of prescription narcotics include constipation, sexual dysfunction, cognitive impairment, addiction, and overdosing. When patients receive narcotics for long periods, they can even become more sensitive to pain, a condition called hyperalgesia."

"And then there are the real-life Walter Whites. I once helped care for a patient with lung cancer who wasn’t taking his narcotics, unbeknownst to his doctors. This patient’s cancer had spread to his bones and other organs, which can be incredibly painful. But he was selling his prescription narcotics to help support his wife and himself. So when given these high-dose narcotics in the hospital, he overdosed—though not fatally, fortunately."

"In a policy drafted by several people with ties to narcotics makers, including Haddox, the Federation of State Medical Boards called on the boards to punish doctors for inadequately treating pain, according to the Wall Street Journal. The Federation also reportedly accepted money from pharmaceutical firms to produce and distribute narcotics-prescribing guidelines."

"In 2007, Purdue Pharma and three of its top executives pleaded guilty to criminal charges that they had misled the F.D.A., clinicians, and patients about the risks of OxyContin addiction and abuse by aggressively marketing the drug to providers and patients as a safe alternative to short-acting narcotics."

Well, I think there IS a war on opioids...or at least such strict regulation that many physicians are uncomfortable prescribing them in sufficient doses to relieve terminal cancer pain. Takes an assertive advocate more often than not. Even when hospice is involved, the patient is often at the mercy of a reluctant nurse.

clownboy · Dec 4, 2015

Absentglare said:
No they aren't.

"Opioids impact the brain, leading to temporary feelings of intense pleasure. Addiction to opioids can develop very quickly, even with minimal use. The addiction can be physical, in that a habitual user’s body craves the drug. It can also be mental, in that a user consciously desires the drug’s effects. A person who is addicted to opioids will do whatever it takes to get more of the drug, regardless of the risks or consequences.

Long-term opioid use has serious health consequences, including brain damage. Opioid abuse can impair the brain’s production of natural painkillers and dopamine (the brain’s “feel-good” chemical)."

Opioids and related disorders | Definition and Patient Education

Wow, you really aren't reading or listening. That's about ABUSE of opioids.

Absentglare · Dec 4, 2015

clownboy said:
Thought that might be coming. Educate yourself. It's about dosage and effective ingredients. And bull****, marijuana is not considered to be "too dangerous for medical study" - there is no such classification. In fact marijuana has been studied for medical use for several decades.

It isn't. Anyone who uses opioids for any reason in any capacity is at risk of developing an addiction. Heroin may be the most addictive substance known to man.

Riveroaks · Dec 4, 2015

Absentglare said:
No they aren't.

"Opioids impact the brain, leading to temporary feelings of intense pleasure. Addiction to opioids can develop very quickly, even with minimal use. The addiction can be physical, in that a habitual user’s body craves the drug. It can also be mental, in that a user consciously desires the drug’s effects. A person who is addicted to opioids will do whatever it takes to get more of the drug, regardless of the risks or consequences.

Long-term opioid use has serious health consequences, including brain damage. Opioid abuse can impair the brain’s production of natural painkillers and dopamine (the brain’s “feel-good” chemical)."

Opioids and related disorders | Definition and Patient Education

After surgery the pain sensation at the wound is extremely intense.

You could grimace for a week or two until it subsided, but the drugs numb the entire pain sensations of the body instead. Then no grimacing.

Basically you feel sleepy and you do sleep more.

Sleeping also speeds healing as well.

Absentglare · Dec 4, 2015

Riveroaks said:
After any kind of surgery, you need these.

The drug menace is about illicit drug use not prescription medically indicated drug use.

Riveroaks said:
Wait until YOU have surgery ABS, and then you'll find out for yourself.

That's just because the drug companies have overwhelmingly ensured that Americans have abundant access to heroin. There are all sorts of substitutes.

Riveroaks · Dec 4, 2015

MaggieD said:
Well, I think there IS a war on opioids...or at least such strict regulation that many physicians are uncomfortable prescribing them in sufficient doses to relieve terminal cancer pain. Takes an assertive advocate more often than not. Even when hospice is involved, the patient is often at the mercy of a reluctant nurse.

After surgery I doubt there is any hesitancy about prescribing them. You take them for about 1 to 2 weeks and then usage stops.

For ordinary back pain is when the abuse can start however.

Absentglare · Dec 4, 2015

MaggieD said:
Well, I think there IS a war on opioids...or at least such strict regulation that many physicians are uncomfortable prescribing them in sufficient doses to relieve terminal cancer pain. Takes an assertive advocate more often than not. Even when hospice is involved, the patient is often at the mercy of a reluctant nurse.

That is progress, but blood spilled isn't all out war. My claim is that we shouldn't have any war on drugs, not that we should outlaw opioids.

My point is that the worst cat is already out of the bag.

Absentglare · Dec 4, 2015

clownboy said:
Wow, you really aren't reading or listening. That's about ABUSE of opioids.

Any amount of opioid use can lead to an addiction.

clownboy · Dec 4, 2015

Absentglare said:
It isn't. Anyone who uses opioids for any reason in any capacity is at risk of developing an addiction. Heroin may be the most addictive substance known to man.

You have no clue of what you're on about. First as any physician who deals with pain will tell you, there is almost NO risk of addiction when used as prescribed. Heroin is NOT the most addictive substance known to man - that would be nicotine.

Absentglare · Dec 4, 2015

Here's another article, marijuana addiction is less of a problem by the sheer number of addicted :

Painkiller Addiction Worse Than Marijuana or Cocaine, Study Finds - Addiction Center - Everyday Health

"Researchers from School of Population Health at the University of Queensland, Australia found that prescription painkillers contribute to more illnesses and deaths worldwide than marijuana, cocaine or heroin — and experts say the problem is particularly worrisome in the United States.

More than 15 million people around the world are addicted to opioid painkillers, such as Vicodin and OxyContin, compared to 13 million people who are addicted to marijuana, according to the study. Nicholas Kardaras, PhD, an addiction specialist and clinical assistant professor of health science at Stony Brook University in New York, said the findings are not surprising, as opioids are not only heavily addictive, but also very well marketed."

clownboy · Dec 4, 2015

Absentglare said:
Any amount of opioid use can lead to an addiction.

Wrong, absolutely. Now, any level of ABUSE may indeed lead to addiction in certain individuals.

Absentglare · Dec 4, 2015

clownboy said:
You have no clue of what you're on about. First as any physician who deals with pain will tell you, there is almost NO risk of addiction when used as prescribed. Heroin is NOT the most addictive substance known to man - that would be nicotine.

Here's more :

https://www.acli.com/Events/Documen...d Medical Marijuana - Juan Sanchez Ramos.pdf

Death risk increases for males with chronic pain or acute pain !!!

clownboy · Dec 4, 2015

Absentglare said:
Here's another article, marijuana addiction is less of a problem by the sheer number of addicted :

Painkiller Addiction Worse Than Marijuana or Cocaine, Study Finds - Addiction Center - Everyday Health

"Researchers from School of Population Health at the University of Queensland, Australia found that prescription painkillers contribute to more illnesses and deaths worldwide than marijuana, cocaine or heroin — and experts say the problem is particularly worrisome in the United States.

More than 15 million people around the world are addicted to opioid painkillers, such as Vicodin and OxyContin, compared to 13 million people who are addicted to marijuana, according to the study. Nicholas Kardaras, PhD, an addiction specialist and clinical assistant professor of health science at Stony Brook University in New York, said the findings are not surprising, as opioids are not only heavily addictive, but also very well marketed."

Once again, deals with abuse. What is so hard to grasp here?

Look, you took at swing at comparing pot to hydrocodone, and it was a wild miss due to your ignorance on the subject. Time to stop swinging.

Absentglare · Dec 4, 2015

clownboy said:
Wrong, absolutely. Now, any level of ABUSE may indeed lead to addiction in certain individuals.

That's not true. The only way to avoid addiction is to never use them.

Barring that, they should be used as little as possible, and only as directed.

They are still dangerous.