Tashah

What is your point? That the inter-war and post-war Iraqi mortality rate exceeded the pre-war norm? One doesn't need a 'study' to agree with such a logical conclusion. Mortality is always elevated in an active war zone and in other hostile environments such as an internal insurgency and/or civil war. That's just plain common sense.

The problem with arriving at Soros-like conclusions is evidentiary. Mortality in-toto is not sub-categorized to arrive at such primal conclusions. How many specific deaths fall into each these categories...

natural causes, old age, accidents, non-war-related medical conditions, normal infant mortality, family arguments, personal suicide, political retribution, sectarian violence, killed by coalition forces, killed by insurgents, killed by foreigners, collateral deaths, fratricide, non-resident deaths, banditry, looting, incompetent surgury, suicide-bombings, and on and on.

To assign responsibility for all of the above mortality categories on America is nothing more than a gross manipulation of the in-toto mortality rate for propaganda purposes. The Lancet Study lacks the evidentiary data to arrive at such an overarching and primal conclusion.

__________________

DivineComedy

He wants us to blame ourselves for Iraqis dying because of Iraqi and Muslim bad behavior. It looks to me that he wants them off the hook and us on it, to justify his friends attacking us…again.

Face it Tashah, Billo_Really is a terrorist propagandist. Mostly because he is a “liberal.”

“…when I take a stance on something, all I can talk to you about it how I feel about it and why. And I don't have to justify it, and you don't have to listen to it...” (Whoopi Goldberg on Hollywood Politics Friday, February 02, 2007 Fox News)
FOXNews.com - Whoopi Goldberg on Hollywood Politics - Bill O’Reilly | The O’Reilly Factor

That is problem with “Liberals!” The “liberal” thinks, therefore, it must be true.

“The absolute irrefutable fact (that you cannot spin) is that all this violence was not present in Iraq before the invasion.” (Billo_Really)
http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...tml#post618253 (What is the root of Islamic Terrorism?)

Duh! Al Quacka and Saddam were allies.

“Cutting a check to the widow of a suicide bomber does not constitute support of terrorism. Show me specific proof any of that money went directly to an act of terrorism. So no, Hussein was not supporting terrorism.” (Billo_Really)
http://www.debatepolitics.com/archiv...tml#post573872 (Terrorists or not terrorists?)

We should send a letter to the United Nations (of tyrants too) telling them we are cutting some checks to the families of poor people if they take out domestic enemies and “liberals” like Billo, when those eyes go big in that last second…

“You don't think what we have done in Iraq is ‘terror‘?

What we have done in Iraq, is
STATE SANCTIONED TERRORISM“ (Billo_Really)
http://www.debatepolitics.com/war-te...tml#post562681 (Terrorists or not terrorists?)

The evidence is clear. According to Billo_Really Saddam was not supporting terrorism in violation of H32 of United Nations (of tyrants too) resolution 687, but we did and are. Billo_Really is either delusional or a domestic enemy. The only thing that makes me lean toward the former is his obvious base ignorance, which was made manifest to me in 2005 when he admitted to having never read the 2002 authorization for use of force.

*****

I do not blame Bill Clinton for these 600,000 deaths, which I will not dispute, I blame Saddam and his Iraqis:

August, 1996: “More than 600,000 Iraqi children have died due to lack of food and medicine and as a result of the unjustifiable aggression (sanction) imposed on Iraq and its nation. The children of Iraq are our children. You, the USA, together with the Saudi regime are responsible for the shedding of the blood of these innocent children. Due to all of that, what ever treaty you have with our country is now null and void.
The treaty of Hudaybiyyah was cancelled by the messenger of Allah (Allah's Blessings and Salutations may be on him) once Quraysh had assisted Bani Bakr against Khusa'ah, the allies of the prophet (Allah's Blessings and Salutations may be on him). The prophet (Allah's Blessings and Salutations may be on him) fought Quraysh and concurred Makka. He (Allah's Blessings and Salutations may be on him) considered the treaty with Bani Qainuqa' void because one of their Jews publicly hurt one Muslim woman, one single woman, at the market.” (Declaration of War against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Places.) Online NewsHour: Bin Laden's Fatwa

March 1997: “Though Bin Ladin had promised Taliban leaders that he would be circumspect, he broke this promise almost immediately, giving an inflammatory interview to CNN in March 1997. The Taliban leader Mullah Omar promptly "invited" Bin Ladin to move to Kandahar, ostensibly in the interests of Bin Ladin's own security but more likely to situate him where he might be easier to control.73
There is also evidence that around this time Bin Ladin sent out a number of feelers to the Iraqi regime, offering some cooperation. None are reported to have received a significant response. According to one report, Saddam Hussein's efforts at this time to rebuild relations with the Saudis and other Middle Eastern regimes led him to stay clear of Bin Ladin.74“(The 9/11 commission report, page 65-66)
National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States
details

July 1997, South Movement, “the path of Jihad and proper action”: “Those who desire to face up to the Zionists conspiracies, intransigence, and aggressiveness must proceed towards the advance centers of capabilities in the greater Arab homeland and to the centers of the knowledge, honesty and sincerity with whole heartiness if the aim was to implement a serious plan to save others from their dilemma or to rely on those capable centers; well-known for their positions regarding the enemy, to gain precise concessions from it with justified maneuvers even if such centers including Baghdad not in agreement with those concerned, over the objectives and aims of the required maneuvers." (On the 29th anniversary of Iraq’s national day (the 17th of July 1968 revolution). President Saddam Hussein made an important comprehensive and nation wide address) President Saddam's speech on July 17 1997

February 17, 1998: “While speaking at the Pentagon on February 17, 1998, President Bill Clinton warned of the ‘reckless acts of outlaw nations and an unholy axis of terrorists, drug traffickers and organized international criminals.’ These ‘predators of the twenty-first century,’ he said ‘will be all the more lethal if we allow them to build arsenals of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons and missiles to deliver them. We simply cannot allow that to happen. There is no more clear example of this threat than Saddam Hussein's Iraq.’“ Bombing of Iraq (December 1998) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Text Of Clinton Statement On Iraq - February 17, 1998

I do not blame Bill Clinton for these MORE THAN ONE MILLION deaths, which I will not dispute, I blame Saddam and his Iraqis:

February 23, 1998: “Second, despite the great devastation inflicted on the Iraqi people by the crusader-Zionist alliance, and despite the huge number of those killed, which has exceeded 1 million…”
One Iraq, Two Iraq, Three Iraq!

September 2001: “Ramsey Clark, former U.S. Attorney General…David Muller, South Movement, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia”
Workers World Oct. 4, 2001: Join a new anti-war coalition

“On the basis of what we said about Iraq while confronting aggressions, the world now needs to abort the US aggressive schemes, including its aggression on the Afghan people, which must stop.
Again we say that when someone feels that he is unjustly treated, and no one is repulsing or stopping the injustice inflicted on him, he personally seeks ways and means for lifting that justice. Of course, not everyone is capable of finding the best way for lifting the injustice inflicted on him. People resort to what they think is the best way according to their own ideas, and they are not all capable of reaching out for what is beyond what is available to arrive to the best idea or means.
To find the best way, after having found their way to God and His rights, those who are inflicted by injustice need not to be isolated from their natural milieu, or be ignored deliberately, or as a result of mis-appreciation, by the officials in this milieu. They should, rather, be reassured and helped to save themselves, and their surroundings. It is only normal to say that punishment is a necessity in our world, because what is a necessity in the other world must also be necessary in our world on Earth. But, the punishment in the other world is faire and just, and the prophets and messengers of God (peace be upon them all) conducted punishment and called for it in justice, and not on the basis of suspicions and whims.” (Saddam Hussein Shabban 13, 1422 H. October 29, 2001.)

“Once again, we say that, injustice and the pressure that results from it on people lead to explosions. As explosions are not always organized, it is to be expected that they may harm those who make them and others. The events of September 11, should be seen on this basis, and on the basis of imbalanced reactions, on the part of governments accused of being democratic, if the Americans are sure that these were carried out by people from abroad.
To concentrate not on what is important, but rather on what is the most important, we say again that after having seen that the flames of any fire can expand to cover all the world, it first and foremost, needs justice based on fairness. The best and most sublime expression of this is in what we have learned from what God the Al Mighty ordered to be, or not to be.” (Saddam Hussein Shabban 13, 1422 H. October 29, 2001.)

I do not blame Bill Clinton or George Bush for 911, I blame Al Quacka and Saddam’s magical “they” ally for September 11, 2001. If the Iraqis want Saddam back, it only convinces me too many Iraqis are alive.

__________________
“[59.14] They will not fight against you in a body save in fortified towns or from behind walls; their fighting between them is severe, you may think them as one body, and their hearts are disunited; that is because they are a people who have no sense.”

Yeah, a wall and a border patrol will protect us. {sound of laughter}

donc

If you’re going to discredit the Lancet study because the source of less of half of the funding, came from Soros, why don’t you check out the messengers that have written the article? Check this out.


Reagan's Disciple: George W. Bush's Troubled Quest for a Presidential Legacy by Lou Cannon and Carl M. Cannon (Hardcover - Jan 28, 2008)

Boy Genius: Karl Rove, The Architect Of George W. Bush's Remarkable Political Triumphs by Carl M. Cannon, Lou Dubose, and Jan Reid (Paperback - Feb 28, 2005) –

Boy Genius: Karl Rove, the Brains Behind the Remarkable Political Triumph of George W. Bush by Lou Dubose, Jan Reid, and Carl M. Cannon (Paperback:

While your checking things out.



Researchers Respond to National Journal Article

The following letter was submitted to the editors of the National Journal on January 7, 2008.


< To start with, at no time did either Roberts or Burnham say that study’s release was timed to affect the outcome of the election. Roberts indicated that he wanted to promote discussion of the results, and Burnham told Munro specifically that he was anxious that the 2006 study be released well before the election to dispel any notion of trying to influence outcomes.>

< It is inaccurate to suggest that funding sources played some role in our research in Iraq. In 2004, and 2006, very modest levels of funding were sought after the projects were initiated. The fact that some of MIT’s financial support in 2006 came from the Open Society Institute had no effect on these reports; the researchers knew nothing of funding origins. MIT played no role in the study design, implementation, analysis or writing of the Lancet report. >


< The statement on missing certificates is wrong. Three clusters did not have the presence of certificates noted, and in all there were 120 deaths in which the interviewers neglected to note their presence. It is also wrong to state the survey was scheduled to end on 1 July and to suggest that clusters with deaths were added later. The survey took several months to complete and finished when it did. High mortality was found in some of the clusters done earlier as well as some of those done later.>



Researchers Respond to National Journal Article




Here is another link.

<Timing of Lancet Iraq Mortality Studies

At no time did study authors Les Roberts or Gilbert Burnham say that the release of their mortality studies was timed to affect the outcome of elections. Roberts indicated that he wanted to protect the Iraqi co-authors by avoiding the perception in Iraq that the researchers withheld information until after the U.S. election. Burnham told National Journal reporter Neil Munro specifically that he was anxious that the 2006 study be released well before the election to dispel any notion of trying to influence outcomes.

Planning for the second survey began in October 2005 with the intention of completing and releasing the findings in the spring. However, the violence in Iraq was so great that it prohibited the field teams from beginning the survey until late spring. The data were released when ready.>


Answers to questions about Iraq mortality studies

Billo_Really

I'm sorry, I find your comments very disengenous.

__________________

"Political correctness is tyranny with manners"
- Charlton Heston

Tashah

I'm likewise sorry, but I find your comment flawed. The word is 'disingenuous' Billo.

Billo_Really

Thenk you for the korrectshun.

Tashah

Hay! Whet ar frendz fore?

Billo_Really

Steak and Lowenbragh!

GySgt

I take this as a compliment. I don't even work hard at it. It's a natural gift.

Why is it that your kind are so desperate for this false and highly exxagerated report to be true? It always amazes me how there are always enough facts to justify a protest, but protestors always trip all over themselves to make the situation worse than it is.

__________________

GySgt
Semper Fidelis
USMC

Billo_Really

The only thing that amazes me, is your expection of people thinking you are an expert in this field to such an extent that you judgement is qualified to even criticize a report by actual experts in the field of epidimiology.

It would be like me criticizing your comments on "gunnery stuff!"

Or you trying to tell me what's what in the field of "electrical engineering".

Here, I'll give you a hands on example...Okay, smart guy, what's your answer?