Another Dem Sounding Positive on Iraq

oldreliable67 · 12-19-07, 10:15 AM

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U.S. Rep. Joe Donnelly returned from a second trip to Iraq in five months encouraged that the mission there is going better and that by 2009 the U.S. military's role could be primarily as trainers and advisers.

"I feel we've made progress, and the other part is I feel we can see an end game in sight," Donnelly, D-Ind., told reporters on a conference call Tuesday from Washington. "It isn't we just keep plugging away in the hopes something will turn out right. Gen. (David) Petraeus is working a plan and we seem to be heading toward a place where the Iraqis can be self-sustaining and we'll have embeddeda smaller presence in the background."
Donnelly's findings were in stark contrast to his visit to Iraq last July, when he said the only positive thing that happened in that country since the beginning of the war in March 2003 was the ouster of Saddam Hussein.
[...]
The only area where there doesn't appear to be improvement is in the Iraqi national government, "which has proven itself to almost be dysfunctional," Donnelly said. "The provincial governments have been working together with each other almost in spite of the national government."

Donnelly's remarks are consistent with the reports of independent and embedded journalists around the country.

WI Crippler · 12-19-07, 10:33 AM

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Originally Posted by oldreliable67

According to the The Indiana Star:

Donnelly's remarks are consistent with the reports of independent and embedded journalists around the country.

I noticed that alot of the usual players on this forum aren't that interested in talking about Iraq much anymore either. Only the hardcore propogandists remain. In my 1+ year on this forum, its really started to slow down in this particular sub-forum, ever since Petraus implemented his strategy.

Leftist Protozoa · 12-19-07, 10:35 AM

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Originally Posted by oldreliable67

Donnelly's remarks are consistent with the reports of independent and embedded journalists around the country.

But they aren't consistent with the private remarks I hear from the dozen or so soldiers I know who rotate over there regularly (who range in rank from E-5 to O-5). I'll take their words over those of journalists and politicians any day.

But, if you want to insist that the emporer is wearing clothes, don't say that nobody warned you when you feel stupid in ten years. It probably won't be a problem. All you war hawks will deny you ever supported the "war" by then. A good number of the rats have already scurried off the ship.

Reverend_Hellh0und · 12-19-07, 11:09 AM

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Originally Posted by Leftist Protozoa

But they aren't consistent with the private remarks I hear from the dozen or so soldiers I know who rotate over there regularly (who range in rank from E-5 to O-5). I'll take their words over those of journalists and politicians any day.

Me too, though I hear a plethora of different comments from everything is going well to things are rough.

Most though from what I hear say we are winning and even an end seems in sight. From .mil to some contractors I know.

How is it all those you talk to tell you the same exact thing?

Quote:

But, if you want to insist that the emporer is wearing clothes, don't say that nobody warned you when you feel stupid in ten years. It probably won't be a problem. All you war hawks will deny you ever supported the "war" by then. A good number of the rats have already scurried off the ship.

Funny I was thinking the same thing about the "we can't win this" crowd.

oldreliable67 · 12-19-07, 11:29 AM

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Originally Posted by Leftist Protozoa

But they aren't consistent with the private remarks I hear from the dozen or so soldiers I know who rotate over there regularly (who range in rank from E-5 to O-5). I'll take their words over those of journalists and politicians any day.

As well you should. Not many of us have access to the "private remarks" of a group that rotates over there regularly. Their feedback must be very interesting and illuminating. About the closest most of us can come to (and it isn't really that close-there is still no substitute for personal contact, IMO) that is the large number of military folks blogging from over there. If you haven't checked it out yet, here is one good source:

http://www.milblogging.com/

There are others, but this site has probably the most in one place.

Quote:

But, if you want to insist that the emporer is wearing clothes, don't say that nobody warned you when you feel stupid in ten years.

"wearing clothes?" While most of my recent posts have been more upbeat about the current conditions and prospects in Iraq, if you had been reading my posts here in the earlier days and years, you might have read some of my considerable criticism of various aspects of our efforts in Iraq, including criticisms of and about Rumsfeld, the early planning (or lack thereof), and others.

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It probably won't be a problem. All you war hawks will deny you ever supported the "war" by then. A good number of the rats have already scurried off the ship.

"war hawk?" You have me confused with someone else. I am far from a "war hawk." I was quite opposed to the Iraq invasion to begin with, unless or until it could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Saddam was a sufficiently credible threat. That didn't happen.

But once we went in, when that became a fait accompli, we could nothing but hope and work for the best possible outcome for all of us, the US, the ME, Iraq as a country, but most of all, for our troops at risk. I admit to being very proud of the overall professionalism and dedication that our military has displayed all along. Sure, there have been some glitches and a few glaring failures, and there will likely be more in the future. What rational person can deny that, following the success of the initial combat phase, very poor decisions and planning on several levels, mainly from Bush and Rumsfeld, became abundantly evident?

These days, I try to read as much as I can from believable, independent, credible sources and stay as informed as much as work and family permits. As an old used up 11 Bravo from Vietnam (my avatar is/was my unit patch there, in '67 -'68), my buddies/contacts are all retired/passed away now, so I don't enjoy the accessibility to the grapevine that I once did and that you apparently still enjoy, hence my reliance on published analysts/journalists, etc.

Now, where are we today? Where can we expect to be tomorrow, next week, and next year? Thats what we need to know. So, based on your experiences and personal intel network, where do you think we'll be next year, or five years from now? And most importantly, why?

Leftist Protozoa · 12-19-07, 02:09 PM

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Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und

How is it all those you talk to tell you the same exact thing?

That's what happens when you're talking to people who all see the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und

Funny I was thinking the same thing about the "we can't win this" crowd.

That has not really been my stance, although I don't think we can "win." What I have stressed is that we lost that one before we started.

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Originally Posted by oldreliable67

If you haven't checked it out yet, here is one good source

What soldiers say publicly (including internet blogs) is often different than what they say to their friends.

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Originally Posted by oldreliable67

including criticisms of and about Rumsfeld,

I was never a fan of Rumsfeld either, however he became a favorite scapegoat of NeoCons.

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Originally Posted by oldreliable67

As an old used up 11 Bravo from Vietnam,

Welcome home! I served 12 years, mostly in the 24th ID ('88 to '00). 35D (MI Officer).

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Originally Posted by oldreliable67

So, based on your experiences and personal intel network, where do you think we'll be next year, or five years from now? And most importantly, why?

I think the next administration (Obama or Clinton) will draw our forces down. Not as fast as I will want, but it will happen. In five years we should have a significantly smaller footprint over there. The Shi'as will win their civil war with the Sunnis, and set up a theocracy. Why did all this happen? Because Bush is a liar, and most Americans fell for his crap in March of 2003.

Reverend_Hellh0und · 12-19-07, 02:17 PM

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Originally Posted by Leftist Protozoa

That's what happens when you're talking to people who all see the same thing.

So you are only talking to people in one unit? How many? I know guys all over Iraq and in afghanistan. Come now if you are going to be anecdotal at least lets hear the numbers. .

Leftist Protozoa · 12-19-07, 02:46 PM

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Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und

So you are only talking to people in one unit? How many? I know guys all over Iraq and in afghanistan. Come now if you are going to be anecdotal at least lets hear the numbers. .

Post #3, first sentence.

No, they are not all in the same unit. One is from Ft Sam Houston, the others are from Ft Hood. One used to be active duty, but I think he is now in the Nasty Guard (Arizona?).

What is your obsession with this?

Reverend_Hellh0und · 12-19-07, 02:49 PM

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Originally Posted by Leftist Protozoa

Post #3, first sentence.

No, they are not all in the same unit. One is from Ft Sam Houston, the others are from Ft Hood. One used to be active duty, but I think he is now in the Nasty Guard (Arizona?).

What is your obsession with this?

Because as one who still works with the .mil has many friends in country I find your statment that all 12 or so of them hold the same exact opinion hard to believe.

It is not the same thing I am hearing.

Why? Which one of them are right?

Leftist Protozoa · 12-19-07, 02:55 PM

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Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und

Why? Which one of them are right?

Oh, you've done it! You have convinced me! Your friends are much smarter than mine!

How is the weather on whatever planet you live on?