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Ohio Votes Down Marijana Legalization

Fenton said:
I never got the comparison argument and whether or not alcohol is worse than marijuana is debatable.

I can drink a couple of nice glasses of Scotch after work and not be effected the following day at all.

Not so with marijuana, especially the marijuana that's available today.

Chemicals should be judged on their specific characteristics , not on the effects of a ccompletely different substance.
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Maybe it in your head, or maybe you had some that someone laced with other chemicals.
 
Fenton said:
Just cant figure out why someone's " right " to pickle their brain on a daily basis and to exist in a perpetual state of impairment supersedes my right to raise a family in a community not inundated with dangerous chemicals
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So where are your threads about banning alcohol Ed? Better get crackin'.
 
Fenton said:
Ohio votes down legalizing pot for medical, recreational use - Yahoo News

Good..
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Like it or not, recreational pot will be legal in Canada in a few short years. Either States bordering Canada will have to evolve and get with the program or they're going to have to beef up border security to inspect all those "tourists" crossing the border into Canada. Similar things have happened with gambling - casinos opened up on the Canadian side of Niagara Falls, in Windsor, across the river from Detroit, and in other similar areas. The States affected resisted for a time but then caught on to all their constituents flooding the border crossings to go into Canada, all that tax money floating away, and started passing legislation and opening up casinos of their own. Same thing will happen with pot.

And just to be clear, I'm not saying I agree with the way things are moving, but I'm old enough to know that time marches on and stops for no one.
 
Lord of Planar said:
I kind of doubt anyone can smoke that much, unless it's really bad quality.

That much would probably knock a person out as bad as drinking a gallon of 80 proof alcohol a day, but at least it wouldn't kill you.

If I smoke maybe 1/10th of a gram, that's probably the most I have ever smoked for a day. I don't need more than that, it would be too much. Trying to compare the carcinogenic effect of weed to cigarettes is ridiculously ignorant.
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Beats me. Consider me ridiculously ignorant then. I don't care. You do. You're the advocate, not me. Just don't complain about breathing difficulties later in life and wonder where they came from.
 
humbolt said:
Beats me. Consider me ridiculously ignorant then. I don't care. You do. You're the advocate, not me. Just don't complain about breathing difficulties later in life and wonder where they came from.
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Concerns about "breathing difficulties" and my health are why I stopped smoking cigarettes in August of 2000.

Someone doesn't smoke cigarettes "recreationally" or "medicinally." It becomes an addiction. Marijuana is not addictive, and most who use it recreationally only do so periodically. Not daily. If I'm restless, a single bong hit makes it easier to go to sleep. I even get a more relaxing sleep.
 
vesper said:
It didn't just go down, it went down in flames. 65% of the voters opposed Issue 3 for a number of reasons. I was one of those no voters. Now there is a good amount of support for medical marijuana but not recreational.
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If you read the OP and read around you'll see the reason it went down and hard wasn't because of recreational but because of the monopoly the bill created.
 
humbolt said:
Beats me. Consider me ridiculously ignorant then. I don't care. You do. You're the advocate, not me. Just don't complain about breathing difficulties later in life and wonder where they came from.
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Btw, as we know here in Oregon, when recreational use is legal all sorts of other methods rather than smoking it become available. There is even vapng.
 
iguanaman said:
Actually it is Republicans who favor a authoritarian Govt. where morals and behavior is regulated by the State while business is allowed to use their might to abuse consumers. Might makes right and the little guy is there to be manipulated.
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I know what you mean. Dictating what size drink people can buy. Deciding what kind of health care is best. Telling poor children what school they have to attend. Forcing Union membership. Telling business what they have to pay employees. Dictating student makeup in higher education. Setting racial quotas. etc, etc, etc... Boy them conservatives sure know how to be authoritarian. No... wait...
 
Lord of Planar said:
Concerns about "breathing difficulties" and my health are why I stopped smoking cigarettes in August of 2000.

Someone doesn't smoke cigarettes "recreationally" or "medicinally." It becomes an addiction. Marijuana is not addictive, and most who use it recreationally only do so periodically. Not daily. If I'm restless, a single bong hit makes it easier to go to sleep. I even get a more relaxing sleep.
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Good for you. I happen to know a fellow that smokes huge quantities of the stuff. I'd say he's addicted. Now whether that's psychological or not is beyond my pay grade, and I honestly don't care. For all practical purposes, he's addicted. I also know people who only smoke cigarettes when they drink alcohol, and that's a rare occurrence. They are not addicted. That's not a study - just my experience. As I said, I'd prefer that drugs simply be made legal, but controlled and taxed in much the same way alcohol is. I don't think that's necessarily a good way to go, but I do think we're headed there anyway and I'd prefer to censure their use through societal means rather than legal ones. The insurance companies have their voice in this as well, so get used to that if you aren't already.
 
Fenton said:
Marijuana far more potent than it used to be, tests find - CBS News

No, the war on drugs is not a failure. Are laws against rape, theft, murder or assault a failure because they haven't eradicated that behavior ?

Nope. Do all laws cost money to enforce ? Yup.
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This is signature worthy. The war on drugs is a complete and utter failure.
Marijuana Prohibition and the War on Drugs Have Utterly Failed - US News
It would be nice if the war on drugs actually reduced the behavior and helped those who are using the drugs.. Oh, don't forget that marijuana is pretty much on par with alcohol in terms of danger.
 
clownboy said:
Btw, as we know here in Oregon, when recreational use is legal all sorts of other methods rather than smoking it become available. There is even vapng.
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Isn't that what Whoppi Goldberg says she does? I smoked pot for a little while in college. It tore up my lungs and throat, and it lowered my already suspect IQ into negative numbers. I did have a good time, but what I was doing while having that good time is anybody's guess. I did seem to misplace an entire week at an inopportune time, though. Later on I had some difficulty gaining required security clearances as a result as well. I'm not one to tell other adults what they should or shouldn't do though, so...
 
humbolt said:
Isn't that what Whoppi Goldberg says she does? I smoked pot for a little while in college. It tore up my lungs and throat, and it lowered my already suspect IQ into negative numbers. I did have a good time, but what I was doing while having that good time is anybody's guess. I did seem to misplace an entire week at an inopportune time, though. Later on I had some difficulty gaining required security clearances as a result as well. I'm not one to tell other adults what they should or shouldn't do though, so...
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Don't know, but you can even use those cigarette replacement vape things for pot now. They also have edibles in a tremendous variety.

But just about everyone loses a week at least of college memory. It's not just the pot causing that. :mrgreen:
 
Fenton said:
Ohio votes down legalizing pot for medical, recreational use - Yahoo News

Good..
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The title of this thread is a bit misleading, as this was NOT a referendum on the legalization of Marijuana.

It was actually a compound proposition that would legalize marijuana AND create a grow monopoly. Compound propositions have the weakness of complexity. If you hate one part, but like the other, you generally vote against, which is exactly what happened here. Ohio voters did not vote down the legalization of pot, the voted down a particular proposition that INCLUDED the legalization of pot.

The legalization of pot is going to go mainstream in 2016, where it could be on the ballot in 15-20 states. Its going to happen most places, as it should. It has worked very well in Colorado.

BTW... our statewide ballot included a proposition about what to do with the excessive tax revenues from marijuana sales.
 
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clownboy said:
If you read the OP and read around you'll see the reason it went down and hard wasn't because of recreational but because of the monopoly the bill created.
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I just love it when someone tells me what the reason/excuse is for something failing when I happen to live in Ohio and know damn well why people voted issue 3 down. I have been talking to people for months about this and their concerns. Like I stated there are several reasons why it didn't pass. The 10 grower cartel is just one of them.

-many people were not comfortable with legalizing medical marijuana and recreational marijuana in one quick sweep. No state has ever put both on the ballot at the same time.
Ohio has been the first to do so. There are some who support medical marijuana and not recreational.

-others were not comfortable with the number of stores that would emerge that would carry recreational pot and edibles etc. that would far exceed the number of state liquor stores we have in the state. The edibles were not popular with a lot of people for a number of reasons.

- folks have been following the downside of legalization in those test kitchens like Colorado for months. Like Colorado struggling with a marijuana black market and the increase of young people using the drug. And the amount of revenue they proclaimed would be generated didn't happen either. Better than half of the revenue goes to regulate the pot industry.
 
countryboy said:
So where are your threads about banning alcohol Ed? Better get crackin'.
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Again, the comparison argument. The legalization of a pyscoactive chemical should be based on the effects of THAT chemical and not something that its being compared to.

And so what if alcohol is legal. Does that mean its a good idea to inundate communities with a additional dangerous substance through legalization ?

No. It's a terrible idea.
 
upsideguy said:
The title of this thread is a bit misleading, as this was NOT a referendum on the legalization of Marijuana.

It was actually a compound proposition that would legalize marijuana AND create a grow monopoly. Compound propositions have the weakness of complexity. If you hate one part, but like the other, you generally vote against, which is exactly what happened here. Ohio voters did not vote down the legalization of pot, the voted down a particular proposition that INCLUDED the legalization of pot.

The legalization of pot is going to go mainstream in 2016, where it could be on the ballot in 15-20 states. Its going to happen most places, as it should. It has worked very well in Colorado.

BTW... our statewide ballot included a proposition about what to do with the excessive tax revenues from marijuana sales.
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Treat addicts ? Pay for increased unemployment benefits ? Pay medical bill's for increased ER visits for small children that accidently consume edible marijuana ?

Pay for a program to help offset the increased at risk drop put rate ? Tutors ?

There's a few things that you could use the " excessive tax revenues " for.

As for voting against the Bill because it set up a monopoly, that's highly suspect.

Pot heads aren't going to pay extra to buy from a store when their local dealer sells it to them at a fraction of the cost.

That's been a issue in Colorado for some time
 
vesper said:
I just love it when someone tells me what the reason/excuse is for something failing when I happen to live in Ohio and know damn well why people voted issue 3 down. I have been talking to people for months about this and their concerns. Like I stated there are several reasons why it didn't pass. The 10 grower cartel is just one of them.

-many people were not comfortable with legalizing medical marijuana and recreational marijuana in one quick sweep. No state has ever put both on the ballot at the same time.
Ohio has been the first to do so. There are some who support medical marijuana and not recreational.

-others were not comfortable with the number of stores that would emerge that would carry recreational pot and edibles etc. that would far exceed the number of state liquor stores we have in the state. The edibles were not popular with a lot of people for a number of reasons.

- folks have been following the downside of legalization in those test kitchens like Colorado for months. Like Colorado struggling with a marijuana black market and the increase of young people using the drug. And the amount of revenue they proclaimed would be generated didn't happen either. Better than half of the revenue goes to regulate the pot industry.
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Your anecdotal view is not supported by any of the studies or data coming out of CO. Teen use of pot is down since legalization. Black markets exist for EVERY legal and regulated product and having two tier (medical and recreational) allows low income patients a path to their prescribed medicine.

Here's a clue, do it like we are here in Oregon - sell it only in the state liquor stores. This allows for tight regulation and the supply chain is already mostly in place.
 
Fenton said:
Treat addicts ? Pay for increased unemployment benefits ? Pay medical bill's for increased ER visits for small children that accidently consume edible marijuana ?

Pay for a program to help offset the increased at risk drop put rate ? Tutors ?

There's a few things that you could use the " excessive tax revenues " for.

As for voting against the Bill because it set up a monopoly, that's highly suspect.

Pot heads aren't going to pay extra to buy from a store when their local dealer sells it to them at a fraction of the cost.

That's been a issue in Colorado for some time
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I thought that might be the case too. Turns out, not so much. You want the crap they can't sell legally at near or in some cases more than register price, then there's always been a black market for the goods. Folks like the convenience, safety and lack of scuminess of buying in a legal store. Their trouble with the law behind them.

And no, all of those things you mention are LESS of a problem since legalization. At least that what the data shows.
 
Fenton said:
Again, the comparison argument. The legalization of a pyscoactive chemical should be based on the effects of THAT chemical and not something that its being compared to.

And so what if alcohol is legal. Does that mean its a good idea to inundate communities with a additional dangerous substance through legalization ?

No. It's a terrible idea.
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The comparison is a valid one, regardless of your silly contrarian debate tactic.

Alcohol is a dangerous chemical as well. Your stance on continued prohibition for marijuana, while keeping alcohol legal is hypocritical. You can continue to mischaracterize the effects of marijuana, while downplaying the far more deleterious effects of alcohol consumption, but that doesn't change the reality of the situation. Hypocrisy is hypocrisy.
 
Fenton said:
Treat addicts ? Pay for increased unemployment benefits ? Pay medical bill's for increased ER visits for small children that accidently consume edible marijuana ?

Pay for a program to help offset the increased at risk drop put rate ? Tutors ?

There's a few things that you could use the " excessive tax revenues " for.

As for voting against the Bill because it set up a monopoly, that's highly suspect.

Pot heads aren't going to pay extra to buy from a store when their local dealer sells it to them at a fraction of the cost.

That's been a issue in Colorado for some time
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You keep repeating this, "fraction of the cost" line. Do you have any evidence to support that? Because frankly, it sounds like you have no idea what you're talking about.
 
upsideguy said:
The title of this thread is a bit misleading, as this was NOT a referendum on the legalization of Marijuana.

It was actually a compound proposition that would legalize marijuana AND create a grow monopoly. Compound propositions have the weakness of complexity. If you hate one part, but like the other, you generally vote against, which is exactly what happened here. Ohio voters did not vote down the legalization of pot, the voted down a particular proposition that INCLUDED the legalization of pot.

The legalization of pot is going to go mainstream in 2016, where it could be on the ballot in 15-20 states. Its going to happen most places, as it should. It has worked very well in Colorado.

BTW... our statewide ballot included a proposition about what to do with the excessive tax revenues from marijuana sales.
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It's funny you favor "excessive tax revenues" as a side issue to legalization, but don't like the idea of a monopoly being created. You are basically favoring a government monopoly over a private one. A distinction without a difference. :roll:
 
vesper said:
I just love it when someone tells me what the reason/excuse is for something failing when I happen to live in Ohio and know damn well why people voted issue 3 down. I have been talking to people for months about this and their concerns. Like I stated there are several reasons why it didn't pass. The 10 grower cartel is just one of them.

-many people were not comfortable with legalizing medical marijuana and recreational marijuana in one quick sweep. No state has ever put both on the ballot at the same time.
Ohio has been the first to do so. There are some who support medical marijuana and not recreational.

-others were not comfortable with the number of stores that would emerge that would carry recreational pot and edibles etc. that would far exceed the number of state liquor stores we have in the state. The edibles were not popular with a lot of people for a number of reasons.

- folks have been following the downside of legalization in those test kitchens like Colorado for months. Like Colorado struggling with a marijuana black market and the increase of young people using the drug. And the amount of revenue they proclaimed would be generated didn't happen either. Better than half of the revenue goes to regulate the pot industry.
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I live here too, and the number one issue with people I talked to was the monopoly issue. Along with altering the state constitution.

I'm not convinced your information about the number of stores is accurate either. The info I read put the potential number of stores at around 1100. Are you saying there are only 1100 state liquor stores in the entire state? I have a hard time believing that. The rules for the location of stores were pretty strict.
 
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