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Hawaii to become 1st state to raise smoking age to 21 ?????

MMC

MMC

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:doh Check this out.....has Hawaii lost their minds? Note what they say about this absurd law. Its Groundbreaking, its amazing and that's very exciting to them to be first to do something. :shock: This is what they are saying about this legislation. Like any of that is suppose to matter, huh? :confused:

What in the hell are they thinking.....what an 18 year old can go and die for their Country but they can't smoke a cigarette or they will be ticketed and fined? Or forced to mandatory community service? It passed can you believe that and now all the governor has to do is sign it into Law. Think he will? What say ye?





A bill that would make Hawaii the first state to raise the legal smoking age to 21 cleared the Legislature on Friday and is headed to the governor. The bill would prevent adolescents from smoking, buying or possessing both traditional and electronic cigarettes.

Those caught breaking the rules would be fined $10 for the first offense, and subsequent violations would lead to a $50 fine or mandatory community service.....snip~

Hawaii poised to become 1st state to raise smoking age to 21 - AP News 4/24/2015 10:49 PM
 
MMC said:
:doh Check this out.....has Hawaii lost their minds? Note what they say about this absurd law. Its Groundbreaking, its amazing and that's very exciting to them to be first to do something. :shock: This is what they are saying about this legislation. Like any of that is suppose to matter, huh? :confused:

What in the hell are they thinking.....what an 18 year old can go and die for their Country but they can't smoke a cigarette or they will be ticketed and fined? Or forced to mandatory community service? It passed can you believe that and now all the governor has to do is sign it into Law. Think he will? What say ye?





A bill that would make Hawaii the first state to raise the legal smoking age to 21 cleared the Legislature on Friday and is headed to the governor. The bill would prevent adolescents from smoking, buying or possessing both traditional and electronic cigarettes.

Those caught breaking the rules would be fined $10 for the first offense, and subsequent violations would lead to a $50 fine or mandatory community service.....snip~

Hawaii poised to become 1st state to raise smoking age to 21 - AP News 4/24/2015 10:49 PM
Click to expand...

Well. They'll just have to die without having tried a Lucky Strike. But they'll die healthy soldiers, anyway.
 
joG said:
Well. They'll just have to die without having tried a Lucky Strike. But they'll die healthy soldiers, anyway.
Click to expand...

What do you think about their legislators thinking this is amazing? Groundbreaking. What are they going to do about those on a Military base? Do you think their governor will pass it?
 
MMC said:
:doh Check this out.....has Hawaii lost their minds? Note what they say about this absurd law. Its Groundbreaking, its amazing and that's very exciting to them to be first to do something. :shock: This is what they are saying about this legislation. Like any of that is suppose to matter, huh? :confused:

What in the hell are they thinking.....what an 18 year old can go and die for their Country but they can't smoke a cigarette or they will be ticketed and fined? Or forced to mandatory community service? It passed can you believe that and now all the governor has to do is sign it into Law. Think he will? What say ye?





A bill that would make Hawaii the first state to raise the legal smoking age to 21 cleared the Legislature on Friday and is headed to the governor. The bill would prevent adolescents from smoking, buying or possessing both traditional and electronic cigarettes.

Those caught breaking the rules would be fined $10 for the first offense, and subsequent violations would lead to a $50 fine or mandatory community service.....snip~

Hawaii poised to become 1st state to raise smoking age to 21 - AP News 4/24/2015 10:49 PM
Click to expand...

And i bet the previous age limit was ooohhh so strictly enforced.
 
Red_Dave said:
And i bet the previous age limit was ooohhh so strictly enforced.
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Mornin RD :2wave: Yeah but before they weren't talking about Mandatory Community service either. They think its amazing that they came up with another way to scam money off people, huh?
 
MMC said:
:doh Check this out.....has Hawaii lost their minds? Note what they say about this absurd law. Its Groundbreaking, its amazing and that's very exciting to them to be first to do something. :shock: This is what they are saying about this legislation. Like any of that is suppose to matter, huh? :confused:

What in the hell are they thinking.....what an 18 year old can go and die for their Country but they can't smoke a cigarette or they will be ticketed and fined? Or forced to mandatory community service? It passed can you believe that and now all the governor has to do is sign it into Law. Think he will? What say ye?

A bill that would make Hawaii the first state to raise the legal smoking age to 21 cleared the Legislature on Friday and is headed to the governor. The bill would prevent adolescents from smoking, buying or possessing both traditional and electronic cigarettes.

Those caught breaking the rules would be fined $10 for the first offense, and subsequent violations would lead to a $50 fine or mandatory community service.....snip~

Hawaii poised to become 1st state to raise smoking age to 21 - AP News 4/24/2015 10:49 PM
Click to expand...

Slightly off topic, but I have always had a problem with how we determine when someone is of age for this or that.

For instance, and using Hawaii but in conjunction with federal statues. The age of consent to have sex is 16 (but I believe it is only 15 to obtain the morning after pill without a parent,) the age to drive is 16 (15 learners permit,) the age to vote is 18 (but can register before then,) the age to be in the military is 17 (applicant at 17 with parents permission, 18 otherwise,) the age to obtain tobacco is 18 (at least until this is signed moving it to 21,) the age to obtain alcohol is 21. And do not get me started on the nebulous always shifting around standards for when someone faces charges as an adult or as a child or what may end up happening with pot legalization.

I've always has a problem with the idea of when a government determines arguably these adult decisions and/or ramifications as it ends up all over the place. Note, I did not bring up any one of those standards to debate those one standards. Just the overall idea that being an "adult" in these contexts is anywhere from 15 (sometimes less) to 21.

Am I the only one that finds it absurd that we shift these things around but only in the context of the singular standard behind them without any real consideration of all these standards compared to one another?

Then you have this subject which is arguably about making a political point without much teeth to make an impact on "underage" smoking at 18 or 21. Something tells me in our zeal to do these things we end up further making a mockery of what is a child and what is an adult. Again, am I alone in wondering why our government (at various levels) looks at things this way? Should we not just decide that a child is under 18, and an adult is 18 and up? (Perhaps the age should be something other than 18, I have no concrete leans that it has to be 18. Just for discussion but with the context of what are we really trying to do here knowing that other nations do not seem to have these issues we do. At least not like this.)
 
I really despise when the government restricts the rights of children. With adults it's always an endless stream of excuses, but with children it's always, well, they're stupid and we are adults so it's cool. There is just something about that logic that pisses me off.
 
Instead of doing that we need to lower the drinking age to 18. If you are an adult, you are an adult.
 
OrphanSlug said:
Slightly off topic, but I have always had a problem with how we determine when someone is of age for this or that.

For instance, and using Hawaii but in conjunction with federal statues. The age of consent to have sex is 16 (but I believe it is only 15 to obtain the morning after pill without a parent,) the age to drive is 16 (15 learners permit,) the age to vote is 18 (but can register before then,) the age to be in the military is 17 (applicant at 17 with parents permission, 18 otherwise,) the age to obtain tobacco is 18 (at least until this is signed moving it to 21,) the age to obtain alcohol is 21. And do not get me started on the nebulous always shifting around standards for when someone faces charges as an adult or as a child or what may end up happening with pot legalization.

I've always has a problem with the idea of when a government determines arguably these adult decisions and/or ramifications as it ends up all over the place. Note, I did not bring up any one of those standards to debate those one standards. Just the overall idea that being an "adult" in these contexts is anywhere from 15 (sometimes less) to 21.

Am I the only one that finds it absurd that we shift these things around but only in the context of the singular standard behind them without any real consideration of all these standards compared to one another?

Then you have this subject which is arguably about making a political point without much teeth to make an impact on "underage" smoking at 18 or 21. Something tells me in our zeal to do these things we end up further making a mockery of what is a child and what is an adult. Again, am I alone in wondering why our government (at various levels) looks at things this way? Should we not just decide that a child is under 18, and an adult is 18 and up? (Perhaps the age should be something other than 18, I have no concrete leans that it has to be 18. Just for discussion but with the context of what are we really trying to do here knowing that other nations do not seem to have these issues we do. At least not like this.)
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Mornin OS. :2wave: With the government involvement, local, city and state.....I figure it is about getting up more money. I am not so keen on they will decide for other adults. Let the people vote on the measure. They included E-cigs to, whats next?

So on Federal Land.....then it wouldn't apply, Right?

I don't have any problem that universally it is accepted by law that an adult would be 18yrs of age and older. Naturally there would be exceptions to the law when it concerned medical and mental health.
 
MMC said:
Mornin OS. :2wave: With the government involvement, local, city and state.....I figure it is about getting up more money. I am not so keen on they will decide for other adults. Let the people vote on the measure. They included E-cigs to, whats next?

So on Federal Land.....then it wouldn't apply, Right?

I don't have any problem that universally it is accepted by law that an adult would be 18yrs of age and older. Naturally there would be exceptions to the law when it concerned medical and mental health.
Click to expand...

That is more or less what I am concerned about. Between local, State and Federal involvement we have a convoluted notion of what is and is not an adult based on the subject at hand and as you elude to the potential for revenues.

In this case raising the smoking age to 21 seems to be about an "estimated" 12% drop in smoking overall. The issue of e-cigarettes is another matter but presumably would fall under similar guidelines based on how quickly that tobacco product took off by age bracket.

My issue is still the same. While there may be some merit to age restrictions and use of some product, we still have the overriding implications of when someone is in charge of themselves in the eyes of government (regardless of level.)

Fundamentally using one example, I do not like the idea that someone is in charge of themselves enough to enter into contract with the military at 18 yet not in charge of themselves related to being able to buy alcohol until they are 21 (and in Hawaii, plus a few other places already, tobacco as well.) Something is inherently wrong here on when someone is deemed an adult and looked at as being responsible for their actions as an adult or as a child.

18 seems to be the reasonable age to suggest adulthood, but I seem to be in the minority purely based on the subject (or condition.) I simply do not get the logic of being responsible for yourself to go to war at 18, sign contracts at 18, get married at 18 (sometimes younger) but when it comes to the purchase of certain goods the government says you are not in charge of yourself or responsible enough for something. I'm always going to have a problem with that.
 
We've come a long way from the good old days when cigarettes were kept where kids could easily pocket a pack and walk out the door. Now, at least, they're kept behind the counter where kids can't so easily steal them and so they're a bit more difficult for teens and pre teens to get. I suspect the tobacco industry liked the idea of future customers stealing their product at an early age, but then, that's just my innate cynicism which, as I've said before, is wrong as much as 1% of the time.

That said, why is it that the smoking age is lower than the drinking age? That doesn't make sense to me at all. The single worst drug we have, at least in terms of death and human misery, is not only legal but can be legally purchased by 18 year old kids. Meanwhile, far less destructive drugs are outlawed entirely, while people have to wait until they're 21 to buy beer.

Nicotine should be a prescription drug, obtainable only by current addicts. That way, there would be fewer new addicts being produced.
 
If an 18 year old is old enough to don a military helmet, carry an automatic weapon, transport munitions and fly/assist an aircraft, they should be old enough to be afforded the same liberties granted to all other American adults.

It breaks my heart that anyone in this day and age, knowing what we know now, would even contemplate voluntarily allowing such a strong addiction to become a part of their life. The damages smoking causes. The heartbreak.

I understand the old folks getting hooked. During that era, smoking was glamorized. Strategically marketed to gain widespread social acceptance and add to the quality of life. "Smoke rings of pleasure." I understand the addiction. It's harder than a rock to beat. I think the tobacco industry and all the politicians that personally benefited from the intentional poisoning of America, should be made, somehow, to compensate those they hoodwinked and ruined. But that's just wishful thinking. The best I can do is pray these smoker's find their path to recovery before it's too late. As for anyone stupid to START smoking know what we know, it's harder to find the same sympathy for you. Unlike the elders, your generation was warned, witnessed, educated about smoking and society no longer tolerates smoking in public places. You KNOW it's taboo. There are no excuses for new smokers. But I still feel bad for their decision to start.

But EVERYONE knows better than that these days. The cat is out of the bag. Smoking is a STRONG addiction with absolutely no gain in return for all the health sacrifices. Only a supreme-dumbass would consider picking up the smoking addiction in these times.

And, true, there are no shortages of dumbass 18 year olds. Although they view themselves as smart as any, they will come to learn in time, as all elders do, that 18 is a pretty awkward age in manhood, and I assume it would be for females as well, and the 18 year old mind is hardly matured as it should come to be in time.

But if 18 is mature enough to go to foreign lands and kill foreign people, under the banner of our nation, that nation owes that 18 year old the freedoms he/she deserves. Can't have your cake and eat it too. There has to be a line somewhere and 18 is that line. Even if it means the freedom to be a dumbass.

Or........ we could just adjust the military joining age to 21 and then my position would be null and void.
 
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Captain America said:
If an 18 year old is old enough to don a military helmet, carry an automatic weapon, transport munitions and fly/assist an aircraft, they should be old enough to be afforded the same liberties granted to all other American adults.

It breaks my heart that anyone in this day and age, knowing what we know now, would even contemplate voluntarily allowing such a strong addiction to become a part of their life. The damages smoking causes. The heartbreak.

I understand the old folks getting hooked. During that era, smoking was glamorized. Strategically marketed to gain widespread social acceptance and add to the quality of life. "Smoke rings of pleasure." I understand the addiction. It's harder than a rock to beat. I think the tobacco industry and all the politicians that personally benefited from the intentional poisoning of America, should be made, somehow, to compensate those they hoodwinked and ruined. But that's just wishful thinking. The best I can do is pray these smoker's find their path to recovery before it's too late. As for anyone stupid to START smoking know what we know, it's harder to find the same sympathy for you. Unlike the elders, your generation was warned, witnessed, educated about smoking and society no longer tolerates smoking in public places. You KNOW it's taboo. There are no excuses for new smokers. But I still feel bad for their decision to start.

But EVERYONE knows better than that these days. The cat is out of the bag. Smoking is a STRONG addiction with absolutely no gain in return for all the health sacrifices. Only a supreme-dumbass would consider picking up the smoking addiction in these times.

And, true, there are no shortages of dumbass 18 year olds. Although they view themselves as smart as any, they will come to learn in time, as all elders do, that 18 is a pretty awkward age in manhood, and I assume it would be for females as well, and the 18 year old mind is hardly matured as it should come to be in time.

But if 18 is mature enough to go to foreign lands and kill foreign people, under the banner of our nation, that nation owes that 18 year old the freedoms he/she deserves. Can't have your cake and eat it too. There has to be a line somewhere and 18 is that line. Even if it means the freedom to be a dumbass.

Or........ we could just adjust the military joining age to 21 and then my position would be null and void.
Click to expand...



Excellent Post Cap.
award_star_gold_2.png
Do you think this governor will sign it into law?
 
OrphanSlug said:
That is more or less what I am concerned about. Between local, State and Federal involvement we have a convoluted notion of what is and is not an adult based on the subject at hand and as you elude to the potential for revenues.

In this case raising the smoking age to 21 seems to be about an "estimated" 12% drop in smoking overall. The issue of e-cigarettes is another matter but presumably would fall under similar guidelines based on how quickly that tobacco product took off by age bracket.

My issue is still the same. While there may be some merit to age restrictions and use of some product, we still have the overriding implications of when someone is in charge of themselves in the eyes of government (regardless of level.)

Fundamentally using one example, I do not like the idea that someone is in charge of themselves enough to enter into contract with the military at 18 yet not in charge of themselves related to being able to buy alcohol until they are 21 (and in Hawaii, plus a few other places already, tobacco as well.) Something is inherently wrong here on when someone is deemed an adult and looked at as being responsible for their actions as an adult or as a child.

18 seems to be the reasonable age to suggest adulthood, but I seem to be in the minority purely based on the subject (or condition.) I simply do not get the logic of being responsible for yourself to go to war at 18, sign contracts at 18, get married at 18 (sometimes younger) but when it comes to the purchase of certain goods the government says you are not in charge of yourself or responsible enough for something. I'm always going to have a problem with that.
Click to expand...



That is a another good point they can get married at 18, even have kids.....own their own home etc etc. Yet can't go out and buy a pack a cigarettes or an E Cig. I would have to question these politicians as to why they feel this need to try some groundbreaking law. Just to have the fame of being the first to do so.
 
MMC said:
Excellent Post Cap.
award_star_gold_2.png
Do you think this governor will sign it into law?
Click to expand...

Honestly, I don't know. I would hate to make a half-cocked declaration. I do that too often as it is. LOL!

But, already, smoking is ostracized in society. Smoker's have to go stand in the rain, out by the dumpsters in back of the building to smoke a cigarette. Not even smoker's hardly smoke in their own homes anymore. Legal or not, smoker's gonna smoke. Look at the pot society. Pot is still illegal in some states. Doesn't seem to bother them much. Society doesn't really care anymore whether somebody smokes weed or not. 30 years ago they were considered dirty, smelly, hippy pot-heads. Now days, they are the neighbor across the street or your fishing buddy. I submit that pot smoking is viewed more favorably than cigarette smoking, if all hands were counted. But I could be wrong. Times, opinions, viewpoints, change. Evolve. We get smarter as we evolve. And the evolution in America always seems to attract/migrate towards more social freedoms and liberties, much to the dislike of some of our more conservative collegues. But what ya gonna do? I don't always like all the changes I see, in the name of freedom and liberty either. But I adapt and improvise. The idea of freedom is bigger than me.

It's a stupid law. Probably just political ploy to suck up to some money somewhere. I doubt it will fly. Just a guess.
 
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Dittohead not! said:
We've come a long way from the good old days when cigarettes were kept where kids could easily pocket a pack and walk out the door. Now, at least, they're kept behind the counter where kids can't so easily steal them and so they're a bit more difficult for teens and pre teens to get. I suspect the tobacco industry liked the idea of future customers stealing their product at an early age, but then, that's just my innate cynicism which, as I've said before, is wrong as much as 1% of the time.

That said, why is it that the smoking age is lower than the drinking age? That doesn't make sense to me at all. The single worst drug we have, at least in terms of death and human misery, is not only legal but can be legally purchased by 18 year old kids. Meanwhile, far less destructive drugs are outlawed entirely, while people have to wait until they're 21 to buy beer.

Nicotine should be a prescription drug, obtainable only by current addicts. That way, there would be fewer new addicts being produced.
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Heya DH. :2wave: Looks like this law will also include vaping.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Good.

Except for the stench burning tobacco creates, vaping and smoking are the same thing.
Click to expand...

Are they? I thought one was trying to reduce the effects of smoking with vaping? Well with the E-Cigs some could be trying to quit smoking.

Did you see the T Shirt on that? By Phillip Morris eh?
 
MMC said:
Are they? I thought one was trying to reduce the effects of smoking with vaping? Well with the E-Cigs some could be trying to quit smoking.

Did you see the T Shirt on that? By Phillip Morris eh?
Click to expand...

Hmmm.. no, I must have missed that.
But, if Phillip Morris says it, it must be so.
 
yeah this is really going to matter. By 13, some of my peers were smoking in public places. Age limits are no more effective than prohibition

Stupidity of having to register for selective service but not being legally enough to smoke or drink. No one respects or is deterred by these laws, only by education of the health hazards and their daily environment
 
Only people I ever see smoking in Hawaii are the Japanese and German tourists. Unless you count everyone smoking pot on Kehana beach....

Almost went there this weekend....
 
MMC said:
:doh Check this out.....has Hawaii lost their minds? Note what they say about this absurd law. Its Groundbreaking, its amazing and that's very exciting to them to be first to do something. :shock: This is what they are saying about this legislation. Like any of that is suppose to matter, huh? :confused:

What in the hell are they thinking.....what an 18 year old can go and die for their Country but they can't smoke a cigarette or they will be ticketed and fined? Or forced to mandatory community service? It passed can you believe that and now all the governor has to do is sign it into Law. Think he will? What say ye?

A bill that would make Hawaii the first state to raise the legal smoking age to 21 cleared the Legislature on Friday and is headed to the governor. The bill would prevent adolescents from smoking, buying or possessing both traditional and electronic cigarettes.

Those caught breaking the rules would be fined $10 for the first offense, and subsequent violations would lead to a $50 fine or mandatory community service.....snip~

Hawaii poised to become 1st state to raise smoking age to 21 - AP News 4/24/2015 10:49 PM
Click to expand...

I don't understand what stupidity possesses law makers to continue doing this.

Even with the smoking age at 18, most people start smoking while they're minors, even now. Do they think all these 15-year-olds will suddenly care what the law is if they're breaking it by 6 years instead of 3?

Having the drinking age at 21 did not stop a couple people I was acquainted with from being alcoholics by the time they reached drinking age. It didn't stop anyone I know from drinking at house parties years and years before they legally could.

Increasing prohibition laws does not stop people from doing drugs. All it does is make them scared to get help when they have a problem or they get into trouble. And all that does is cost more lives. We've tried this over and over again and it never does anything but make the problem even worse.

What's it called again when you do the same thing over and over and expect different results?
 
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Frankly, I think they should raise the age limit for proposing stupid bills to 80. Since we'll never be able to retire the offender on the basis of term limits, we could at least retire them on the basis of senility.
 
EdwinWillers said:
Frankly, I think they should raise the age limit for proposing stupid bills to 80. Since we'll never be able to retire the offender on the basis of term limits, we could at least retire them on the basis of senility.
Click to expand...

Heya EW. :2wave: Yeah any over 65 should have to take a psych evaluation and then every 3 years afterwards. Anyone in office.

Especially Judges and no more of that BS lifetime appointment either.
 
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