Should Wooten have been fired?

DarkWizard12 · 09-05-08, 09:31 PM

Simple question.

Most people complain that "Oooh, palin fired a trooper because he was her Brother-in-law and she abused her pwoers LOLZ LOLZ LOLZ!!!@@."

Ok, lets pretend for a second that this is...well...true to an extent. That he is her former brother-in-law and was in fact "fired". Lets look at the man's record shall we?

First, we shan't jump the gun. the man was fired. Not killed, fired. His now former-job was a "State trooper", that was his job.

Now, Mike Wooten's record, shall we look at it?

Alaska Public Safety Commissioner dismissal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:

On March 1, 2006, Wooten was notified of the results of an Alaska State Trooper internal investigation. The probe found that Wooten violated internal policy, but not the law, in making the death threat against Heath (the father of Sarah Palin and Molly McCann).[7] Wooten denied having made the threat, but the investigation decided that he had in fact done so. [7] The trooper investigation concluded that the death threat was not a crime because Wooten did not threaten the father directly; therefore, the investigator deemed the threat to be a violation of trooper policy rather than a violation of criminal law.[13]

The Alaska State Trooper internal investigation also found that 1. Wooten had violated both Alaska law and Alaska State Trooper policy in shooting a moose: he had been out hunting with McCann and had shot the animal himself even though their permit was in McCann's name only.[7] According to subsequent news reports, McCann had obtained the permit but balked at killing the moose herself, so she handed the gun to her then-husband, who shot the animal.[14]

2. Wooten was also found to have violated department policy in using a Taser on his then 10-year old stepson; he told investigators that he did so "in a training capacity" after the child had asked to be tased in order to show his cousin, Sarah Palin's daughter Bristol, that he "wasn't a mama's boy".[6][7] 3. The investigation initially cleared Wooten on all of the drunk-driving charges,[7] but Grimes subsequently overturned that result and found that Wooten had driven while drunk on one occasion, violating both the law and internal trooper policy.[15]

Wooten was also cleared of numerous other allegations made by McCann and her family, including that he had taken illegal steroid and testosterone supplements, that he had physically assaulted McCann, and that he had illegally shot a wolf.[7]

this man, a state trooper who is supposed to be an example, was found to have violeted both department policy and Alaska State Law, as bolded. Under Alaska law, A man like this is to be fired.

Now, could family matters be what got him fired? Maybe, if he was related to Palin at all, he would still have his job? Maybe, just maybe, but there is a flaw in that logic though. Mike Wooten did various thing wrong violating various policy and laws, and got caught. Doesn't matter if it was his own family, the governmer's office, the VPOTUS, or Satan himself, he got caught period. He broke the law and should have been fired.

That is my contention.

missypea · 09-05-08, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkWizard12

Simple question.

Most people complain that "Oooh, palin fired a trooper because he was her Brother-in-law and she abused her pwoers LOLZ LOLZ LOLZ!!!@@."

Now, could family matters be what got him fired? Maybe, if he was related to Palin at all, he would still have his job? Maybe, just maybe, but there is a flaw in that logic though. Mike Wooten did various thing wrong violating various policy and laws, and got caught. Doesn't matter if it was his own family, the governmer's office, the VPOTUS, or Satan himself, he got caught period. He broke the law and should have been fired.

That is my contention.

Was Wooten Sarah Palin's BIL?
Yes.

Did Walt Monegan deserve to be fired because he didn't respond to the pressure from Palin and her office by firing Wooten?
No.

Did Palin abuse her responsibilities as the governor of AK in that regard?

We'll soon find out...........stay tuned.

DarkWizard12 · 09-05-08, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by missypea

Was Wooten Sarah Palin's BIL?
Yes.

So you believe BIL's shouldn't be held accountable because....?

Quote:

Did Walt Monegan deserve to be fired because he didn't respond to the pressure from Palin and her office by firing Wooten?
No.

He neglected his duties, I would have fired him, suspended him anyways.

Not only that but, was that even the only reason why he was fired?

missypea · 09-05-08, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkWizard12

So you believe BIL's shouldn't be held accountable because....?

Nope, that's not even close to what I said.

Quote:

He neglected his duties, I would have fired him, suspended him anyways.

Not only that but, was that even the only reason why he was fired?

The issue, for ME, is not Wooten. The issue for me is did Sarah Palin abuse her position to apply pressure to Walt Monegan in order to terminate Wooten.....AND..........when Monegan did not respond to the pressure, did Sarah Palin fire Walt Monegan for not terminating Wooten.

Zyphlin · 09-05-08, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by missypea

Was Wooten Sarah Palin's BIL?
Yes.

Did Walt Monegan deserve to be fired because he didn't respond to the pressure from Palin and her office by firing Wooten?
No.

Did Palin abuse her responsibilities as the governor of AK in that regard?

We'll soon find out...........stay tuned.

So let me ask you something

If Wooten wasn't Sarah Palin's BIL and was found in violation of the 4 things the internal investigation found him in violation of...

AND

Monegan still refused to remove him despite pressure because he was a repeat violating state trooper and thus was removed from a political position by his superior because it was felt he wasn't doing his job appropriately.

Would that be an "abuse of power" in your mind?

Does the fact that Wooten was her Brother In Law immedietely excuse him and give him amnesty to do anything and everything he'd like without the ability for repercussions? Does being her brother in law give Monegan an excuse to protect the job of someone whose found in repeat violation of the law and policy and protection from being removed by a superior for failing to do his job up to the standards his superior has set?

DarkWizard12 · 09-05-08, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by missypea

Nope, that's not even close to what I said.

The issue, for ME, is not Wooten. The issue for me is did Sarah Palin abuse her position to apply pressure to Walt Monegan in order to terminate Wooten.....AND..........when Monegan did not respond to the pressure, did Sarah Palin fire Walt Monegan for not terminating Wooten.

Thats goign to be a very hard to prove invistigation. I doubt, no matter what the results of the invistigation will be, that we will ever know the whole story.

As I have said before, its state/local politics. The way it is so easy to do damage control and how the press is not on you 24/7, and how constituents easily forget who their state leaders are.

missypea · 09-05-08, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zyphlin

So let me ask you something

If Wooten wasn't Sarah Palin's BIL and was found in violation of the 4 things the internal investigation found him in violation of...

AND

Monegan still refused to remove him despite pressure because he was a repeat violating state trooper and thus was removed from a political position by his superior because it was felt he wasn't doing his job appropriately.

Would that be an "abuse of power" in your mind?

Does the fact that Wooten was her Brother In Law immedietely excuse him and give him amnesty to do anything and everything he'd like without the ability for repercussions? Does being her brother in law give Monegan an excuse to protect the job of someone whose found in repeat violation of the law and policy and protection from being removed by a superior for failing to do his job up to the standards his superior has set?

I don't know where you or darkwizard get the idea that Wooten is OK in my eyes.

ONCE AGAIN: My interest lies in finding out if Sarah Palin, the person running for the Vice President of the United States, abused her office.

I don't care about if's. I think I was pretty clear about waiting to see what happens regarding the investigation.

I expressed my desire to find out what happens regarding this investigation.

The rounding of the wagons around Palin is beyond ridiculous.

Zyphlin--maybe you should take out the ruler that you've been rapping on others' hands and give yourself a whack.

Zyphlin · 09-06-08, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by missypea

I don't know where you or darkwizard get the idea that Wooten is OK in my eyes.

Where did I say you thought what Wooten did was okay?

Quote:

ONCE AGAIN: My interest lies in finding out if Sarah Palin, the person running for the Vice President of the United States, abused her office.

I do too. And I've said, from what I've seen of it yet, its inconclusive. Its an issue that, if it wasn't her Ex Brother in Law, wouldn't even register. So the question comes down, did she do it because Wooten was a bad cop that needed to go or did she do it because it was her Ex-Brother in Law.

So far, I've seen 0 evidence that its the later. If something conclusive comes out, I'll condemn her for it...but thus far it hasn't showed up.

Quote:

I don't care about if's. I think I was pretty clear about waiting to see what happens regarding the investigation.

If you just cared about waiting to see what happened in the investigation you wouldn't have posted on a thread to discuss it.

So, looking at your post, WHY do you feel that Monegan didn't deserve to be fired?

Quote:

I expressed my desire to find out what happens regarding this investigation.

I want to too, but from what I've seen so far there's little to no info she did it simply because it was her Ex-Brother In Law. As such, she's innocent until proven guilty and in my mind innocent till I see some actual decently damning evidence, which there hasn't been yet.

Quote:

The rounding of the wagons around Palin is beyond ridiculous.

Zyphlin--maybe you should take out the ruler that you've been rapping on others' hands and give yourself a whack.

There's no "rounding the wagons". I've made my negative statements on her on some things already. However, on this matter, I'm seeing no issue. Until such point that proof comes out that this was done specifically because it was her Ex-Brother in Law, I don't see an issue.

I don't think that Monegan was fired wrongfully, and I'll tell you why. He's in a key governmental position, one in the publics trust, one I believe is appointed by the governor, and his superior is the Governor. The governor, who is in charge in part of maintaining the budget directed her subordinate to make needed budget cuts, and he refused. As such, the subordinate was removed and replaced with someone that would do as needed. I don't see anything wrongful in that, I see something typical within government and business. LINK (note, this link does also talk about the accusal of him being pressured about the ex-BIL)

Furthermore, I do see that people in her office have contacted Monegan about firing the trooper. I see no proof however that it was done simply because he was her Ex-Brother In Law. If that was the only thing they had, or if they only had a single issue with him, I would likely be more bothered by this. However he had a number of issues unbecoming of someone in his position and I see it as completely reasonable to seek to have such an officer dismissed, as it brings down the integrity of the entire state troopers organization. Simply because he had personal ties to the Governor doesn't change that fact. So even though Monegan wasn't fired for not firing Wooten, officially and by the facts so far, even if he was I'd have no problem with it as he's willfully allowing a bad cop to remain on the force opposite what his superiors desire in regards to corruption and public perception.

At most, there is a questionable point of this to ask if him being the Ex-Brother In Law played into it at all. My mind? Yes, it probably did play into it a bit...I'm sure it would probably be on the mind a bit more, not just Palin but those on her staff. HOWEVER, as I said, I do not believe him being her Ex-Brother In Law excuses his behavior nor means he shouldn't have been fired for the things he did. As such, I don't see "abuse" here. Abuse would've been if she put pressure to fire him only because it was her Ex-Brother In Law and if he had done nothing wrong. That is not the case.

So I'll ask, once again just to be sure its there...Why do you think Monegan didn't "deserve" to be fired for not firing Wooten? AND Why do you think Monegan was fired simply for not firing Wooten and not for refusing to make the necessary budget cuts asked of him?

missypea · 09-06-08, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zyphlin

If you just cared about waiting to see what happened in the investigation you wouldn't have posted a thread to discuss it.

I don't see Troopergate as a single issue and that's what the OP sounded like. I see this as a multi-faceted issue and feel that it should be viewed as such.

It's not just about Wooten.

I see my faux pas that got you fired up: I should have said:
If Walt Monegan was fired because he didn't respond to the pressure from Palin and her office, did he deserve it?
No.

I can what if this thing to death, but why? We'll all find out soon enough and then this place will be hopping with threads from one side or the other.

If it turns out that Palin abused her office then I imagine I'll have quite a bit to say. If not, it's all moot. I'm going to wait it out. BUT, I'm not ever going to treat this investigation as if it were a single issue.....because it's not.

Vader · 09-06-08, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by missypea

I don't see Troopergate as a single issue and that's what the OP sounded like. I see this as a multi-faceted issue and feel that it should be viewed as such.

It's not just about Wooten.

I see my faux pas that got you fired up: I should have said:
If Walt Monegan was fired because he didn't respond to the pressure from Palin and her office, did he deserve it?
No.

I can what if this thing to death, but why? We'll all find out soon enough and then this place will be hopping with threads from one side or the other.

If it turns out that Palin abused her office then I imagine I'll have quite a bit to say. If not, it's all moot. I'm going to wait it out. BUT, I'm not ever going to treat this investigation as if it were a single issue.....because it's not.

From what I can see Wooten was an absuive, corrupt, criminal who happened to have a badge to abuse.

He was clearly a digrace to the uniform. If the allegations, as mentioned in the thread(s) above, are true and correct, then he deserved to be fired.

If Palin had to put pressure of the followers of the good-ole-boy network, so that it would fire an abuser ... I don't really see a huge problem with it.