The 2nd Amendment of the Constitution - Page 3

Iriemon · 08-14-07, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voidwar

good thing he never asserted that.

You need to read harder chief. 64 million gun owners killed NO-ONE yesterday, and you managed to find a few news stories about the other gun owners who do NOT fall into the 64 million he mentioned.

He did not lie, you failed to lucidly comprehend what he wrote.

Your accusational apparatus seems fine but I think you need an overhaul on your literacy module.

Fair enough. I read the statement to indicate gun owners hadn't killed anyone. It was (intentionally) ambiguous and could have the meaning you indicate -- that most gun owners had not killed anyone yesterday, just some did.

jfuh · 08-14-07, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iriemon

I thought since Jefferson's statement was bogus, I'd check the veracity of this one, which sounded dubious to me given that over ten thousand people die from gunshot wounds each year, not including the many more that use them to commit suicide.

I did a google news search on the key words "shot" and "killed."
There were 43,599 hits.

Headlines excerpts from just the first 10 pages of the 43,599 hits:

Man shot and killed at Duluth apartment
Atlanta Journal Constitution, USA - Aug 13, 2007

Cincinnati Enquirer, OH - 5 hours ago
FAIRFIELD - A 41-year-old Fairfield man who fatally shot himself in a seven-hour standoff with police had threatened his girlfriend with a gun just before ...

Daily Press, VA - 1 hour ago
Christopher Jones was shot and killed during a fight outside of the Liquid Blue Gentleman's Club. Police charged 32-year-old Lennox Sullivan of Newport News ...

KHOU (subscription), TX - 1 hour ago
A man shot and killed and southwest Houston on Tuesday morning may have died over as little as $6. Witnesses saw a vehicle pull into a parking lot near ...

WSBtv.com, GA - Aug 13, 2007
A 20-year-old man was shot dead early Sunday when he kicked down the front door of another man's house in Creola. Authorities said Justin Cox got into an ...

San Jose Mercury News, USA - 22 hours ago
A man killed in San Mateo over the weekend was a San Francisco police officer, it was confirmed today. Sgt. Steve Mannina said this morning, ...

The Times-Picayune - NOLA.com, LA - 10 hours ago
Two people were shot fatally and a third wounded Monday night in the Treme neighborhood, New Orleans police said. The triple shooting occurred about 10:40 ...

New York Times, United States - 3 hours ago
... 20; and Terrance Aeriel, 18; were killed with shots to the back of the head. Mr. Aeriel’s 19-year-old sister, Natasha, was shot but survived. ...

Greensboro News Record, NC - 19 hours ago
As police investigated Lloyd's shooting, officers were told that another person was also shot. Police searched a wooded area next to 257 Flowers St., ...

Florida Times-Union, FL - 4 hours ago
By The Times-Union A Jacksonville shop owner shot and killed an apparent robber after taking a bullet in the stomach himself Monday morning on Blanding ...

California man believed to have killed 6-year-old with cleaver
International Herald Tribune, France - 16 hours ago
Sharp was arrested at the apartment complex after neighbors restrained him until deputies arrived. He was shot several times with a stun gun during the ...

Newsday, NY - Aug 13, 2007
One of the men in the second group pulled out a gun and shot Story and his three friends, age 18, 19 and 20, hitting Story and wounding his friends, ...

Dallas Morning News (subscription), TX - Aug 13, 2007
During the course of an argument, police said the new husband's relative shot and killed the woman's ex-husband. There was no word whether anyone had been ...

Fort Worth Star Telegram, TX - 4 hours ago
... was killed late Sunday after bursting into the home of his ex-wife in southwest Fort Worth, where he was then shot in the face by the woman's brother, ...

Man killed in daytime shooting in NN
Daily Press, VA - 15 hours ago

Mo. Church Shooting Stuns Community
Forbes, NY - 15 hours ago

Kansas City Star, MO - 16 hours ago
Kansas City police today identified a man killed in an early morning shooting as Gregory D. Strickland, 44, of Kansas City. Strickland was among three men ...

Husband, wife killed at Nevada County home; woman's ex surrenders
WMC-TV, TN - Aug 13, 2007

Man, 70, killed in Two Notch wreck
The State, SC - 10 hours ago

Husband, wife killed at Nevada County home; woman's ex surrenders
WMC-TV, TN - Aug 13, 2007

1 Killed, 1 Hurt in Shooting Outside Pool Hall
WOAI, TX - Aug 13, 2007

Police: Man Shot by Cop Terrorized Reading Neighborhood
WFMZ-TV Online, PA - 16 hours ago

This is only a small fraction of the total number of stories.

To assert that no one was killed yesterday by firearms in America is a lie regardless which day you look at.

Misquoting Jefferson and lying about the facts. Kind of makes me wonder how truthful the rest of the points are.

Shot and killed, yes that is what guns do - if we want news stories about fatal instances I can find plenty of instances of where cars - hit and run; pool drownings ect.
Guns are a tool the only difference is their design is to kill or at least mortally wound; but like all tools, if in the hands of the right person - their put to good use.
What is a criminal's worst fear? An armed victim.

Iriemon · 08-14-07, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfuh

Shot and killed, yes that is what guns do - if we want news stories about fatal instances I can find plenty of instances of where cars - hit and run; pool drownings ect.

And if the OP made a statement about car owners or pool owners not killing anyone yesterday that would be a relevant point.

Quote:

Guns are a tool the only difference is their design is to kill or at least mortally wound; but like all tools, if in the hands of the right person - their put to good use.

No disagreement.

Quote:

What is criminal's worst fear? An armed victim.

Is that true?

Voidwar · 08-14-07, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iriemon

Is that true?

Name something they fear more.

Don't bother with cops, because one should fear someone who will take prisoners a lot less than someone who takes no prisoners.

jfuh · 08-14-07, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iriemon

And if the OP made a statement about car owners or pool owners not killing anyone yesterday that would be a relevant point.

No disagreement.

Is that true?

People that are going to kill will find every way possible to kill, they don't need a gun to do that. People that want to commit crimes are still going to find guns. hence gun bans to protect us from criminals getting them are quite pointless. So the only point would be to protect us from ourselves of accidental shootings. Hence my former examples of pool drownings, car fatalities ect.
A criminal that is going to be mugging someone would deffinetly think twice about robbing someone if they suspect that individual has a gun. Ie ever hear of a police officer getting mugged?

The only relevant question with regards to guns is who gets them - thorough background checks - waiting periods all of these should be fully enacted and armed with teeth. As opposed to the washed down versions we have today curtosey of the gun lobby.

jfuh · 08-14-07, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voidwar

Name something they fear more.

Don't bother with cops, because one should fear someone who will take prisoners a lot less than someone who takes no prisoners.

I'd rather taken prisoner than have a bullet in my head.

Voidwar · 08-14-07, 04:24 PM

Exactly, Cops will let the criminal surrender.

Iriemon · 08-14-07, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfuh

People that are going to kill will find every way possible to kill, they don't need a gun to do that. People that want to commit crimes are still going to find guns. hence gun bans to protect us from criminals getting them are quite pointless. So the only point would be to protect us from ourselves of accidental shootings. Hence my former examples of pool drownings, car fatalities ect.

I agree to an extent. Your argument is that a ban is ineffective so don't even try.

I do not support a general ban of guns. However, I disagree with the general application of that argument. IMO there are certain types of weapons (fully automatic machine guns) that are sufficiently inherently dangerous that a ban is warranted, even though the ban may not work perfectly. And the more dangerous the weapon, the less I am persuaded by your argument.

Quote:

A criminal that is going to be mugging someone would deffinetly think twice about robbing someone if they suspect that individual has a gun. Ie ever hear of a police officer getting mugged?

That makes sense. I just wondered if your statement: What is criminal's worst fear? An armed victim. is based on some study or is just a slogan.

Quote:

The only relevant question with regards to guns is who gets them - thorough background checks - waiting periods all of these should be fully enacted and armed with teeth. As opposed to the washed down versions we have today curtosey of the gun lobby.

No dispute here.

Iriemon · 08-14-07, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voidwar

Name something they fear more.

Don't bother with cops, because one should fear someone who will take prisoners a lot less than someone who takes no prisoners.

Since I did not make the assertion; I'll decline your invitation to prove it.

I'm not a criminal so I could not guess what they fear. I doubt it is homogeneous. Getting caught would be something I'd guess they feared.

Voidwar · 08-14-07, 04:32 PM

Getting gunned down dead in the act, is something they would fear MORE.