TacticalEvilDan

Since I didn't get any response on this side trip in another thread, I figured I'd give it it's own thread:

Discuss!

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obvious Child

You want the actual or the idiotic average American view?

IMO, the two need to be further broken down. There is social liberalism/conservatism and fiscal liberalism/conservatism. Trying to define them without that segregation is futile.

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TacticalEvilDan

Hmm.

Well, we could go two ways:

1) Each poster could share their own definition -- as in, "hi, I'm a conservative, here's why"

2) Each poster could give their interpretation on what the terms mean in modern American politics

I don't know, I'm just sick and tired of seeing jack-offs use turns of phrase like "my left-wing" friend when the differentiation between left and right means so little in the United States.

obvious Child

That's just Navy. And he defines it as anyone who disagrees with him on anything. Don't spend hours worrying over it.

1069

There are libertarian type liberals and socialist type liberals.
I'm sure there are at least two different (and basically, diametrically opposed) kinds of conservatives as well, but i don't know what they are, because i don't really know any.

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The silenced majority

The typical conservative in this country believes that there exists an enduring moral order. He knows that order and justice and freedom are the products of a long and often painful social experience, and that they must be protected from abstract radical assaults. He defends custom, habit, tested institutions that have functioned well. He says that the great virtue in politics is prudence: judging any public measure by its long-run consequences. He is attached to a society of diversity and opportunity, and he is suspicious of any ideology that would rule us by a single abstract principle, whether that principle is "equality" or "liberty" or "social justice" or "national greatness." He recognizes that human nature and society cannot be perfected: politics remains the art of the possible. He adheres to private property and free economic enterprise; he is aware that decent government, repressing violence and fraud, is necessary for the survival of a health economy. ~ Russel Kirk: A Dispassionate assessment of Libertarians

That sums up my views pretty well.

I do agree with 10 when she says that there are socialist liberals & Libertarian liberals. Both camps IMO, are blindly by ideology to believe in an "inherent goodness" about human nature.

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rathi

In my 9 year experience of politics, labels like liberal and conservative are relatively meaningless in America. Both parties are made up of groups who share some views, but oftentimes have fairly pronounced differences. Most people only bring it up so they can strawman the opponent for an argument they didn't make. Sometimes, people use a quadrant based political quiz to determine political affiliation. It put relatively control of social freedoms on the x-axis and economic control on the y axis. Your modern day conservative would be in the top right quadrant, libertarians in the top left, liberals in the bottom left, and authoritarians in the bottom right. Frankly, I find such labels to be pointless. I'd much know the specifics details of a person's stance than a blanket label that isn't very accurate.

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Ethereal

Good question, complex answer.

It seems one would have to weigh the actual aspects of each respective ideology vs the percieved ones in order to make an accurate determination as to what constitutes and conservative and a liberal.

Most modern day "conservatives" and "liberals" don't really identify with a discernable core ideology when it comes to economic and social issues, rather they rally around contemporary issues and ascribe a label to their corresponding position whether it accurately relates to said label or not.

Take the Iraq war for instance. Many self-proclaimed conservatives supported or support it while many self-proclaimed liberals detest it. Does this love or hate of the Iraq War have any substantive relation to the core ideologies of conservatism or liberalism? Not really, yet this one policy has managed to polarize both camps. Why? The simple answer is partisan politics. The war was effected under a Republican administration so it only seems reasonable that "conservatives" would champion and support the war while "liberals" would villify and detest it.

As far as what actually constitutes a conservative or a liberal is easy to define; this is basic politics and you already know the answers. A problem arises only when people attempt to mutate those core ideologies to suite their contemporary agendas. What's the contemporary agenda? To get elected and maintain power, thus we see why each party becomes less distinctive from one another, and why their core ideologies become less relevant to their labels.

Kandahar

Here is my opinion of what "liberals" and "conservatives" are, in the broad sense. Keep in mind that not every person will meet every one of these descriptions. In fact, sometimes the Democrats adopt positions I consider "conservative" (e.g. gun control), and the Republicans adopt positions I consider "liberal" (e.g. free trade).


LIBERAL - A liberal supports a broadly interventionist foreign policy, but opposes going to war unless absolutely necessary. He supports strong government social programs to help provide a safety net for the least fortunate in his society, and increased foreign aid to help solve some of the world's greatest problems such as hunger, contaminated water, HIV, and malaria. He has a cosmopolitan worldview, and is generally accepting of those with lifestyles different from his own as long as those lifestyles harm no one else. He supports civil rights for all people, regardless of gender, race, religion, or sexual orientation. He supports personal freedoms for all people and opposes laws against "victimless crimes," such as the war on drugs or anti-gun laws. He fully embraces globalization, and considers himself a proponent of both free trade and immigration.

CONSERVATIVE - A conservative supports a much more narrowly-defined foreign policy bordering on isolationism and unilateralism, but is more likely to support going to war to protect his nation's interests abroad. He supports reducing the size of government to allow the taxpayers to keep more of their own money, and opposes foreign aid as inefficient and a waste of his country's resources. His worldview is typically more traditional and religious, and he favors laws that support his version of morality, such as anti-abortion, anti-drug, and anti-gay laws. He is more likely to favor "security" over "liberty" when the two seem to be in conflict with each other, such as allowing the police broader powers and prohibiting gun ownership. He considers himself an economic nationalist, opposing free trade and immigration because he believes that they take jobs away from citizens of his country.

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Hatuey

Liberal :



Conservative :



That's how I've understood it.

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