John McCain was not tortured as a POW

danarhea · 08-20-08, 03:01 PM

If you believe President Bush's administration on whether the United States tortures or not, then John McCain was not tortured when he was a POW. Stress Positions? Beatings? Extremes in temperature? Sleep deprivation? We do that every day, and according to Bush, this is not torture.

On the other hand, this is what John McCain had to go through when he was imprisoned. Now I might think that McCain would suck as president, but there is no doubt that he is a war hero, who lived in hell for years. Should he become the next president, I hope that he will remember his experience, kick out those who defined torture as non-torture as his first act, and make a pledge that the United States will no longer engage in these acts, nor will it ever again justify them.

If McCain does just that much, I will be proud to have him as my president. The difference between McCain and Bush is clear. McCain was there, and knows the horror. Bush wasn't, and will never know. And those experiences, or in the case of Bush, the lack of them, I strongly believe, is what drives Bush's policy, and what will drive the policy under McCain. It is one thing to play soldier, and another thing to be one. Whether you like McCain or not, he was a soldier.

Article is here.

shuamort · 08-20-08, 03:45 PM

It's a shame that he voted AGAINST the ban of waterboarding.

The reason he stated? “I said there should be additional techniques allowed to other agencies of government as long as they were not” torture. “I was on the record as saying that they could use additional techniques as long as they were not cruel, inhumane and degrading treatment,” McCain said.

“So the vote was in keeping with my clear record of saying that they could have additional techniques, but those techniques could not violate” international rules against torture.

I wonder why he said this to the NYTimes:
"Mr. McCain, for example, said waterboarding -- a simulated drowning technique -- was an illegal form of torture. But while the C.I.A. says it no longer uses waterboarding, the Bush administration has not ruled out its use in the future." New York Times, 2/17/08

I guess it depends on when you ask him...and if he has an onion tied to his belt which was the fashion of the day.

PeteEU · 08-20-08, 07:09 PM

He was not tortured. According to the US government the treatment McCain received is not torture.

He is also a hypocrite and against the US military. He is now claiming to be behind the recent GI bill, a bill he was opposed to before he was for it and had zero to do with.. since he is never in Washington.

Its time the Dems start taking this pathetic excuse for a politician to pieces. It is so sad how far this "maverick" has fallen.

Captain America · 08-20-08, 07:29 PM

Seems to me I remember McCain staunchly denouncing torture some months back. If anyone should know detriments of torture, and stand against it, he should. And I think he does.

This is a cheap shot against McCain. You guys sound more like Rovian Republicans than democrats.

Going over to the dark side?

RightinNYC · 08-20-08, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeteEU

He was not tortured. According to the US government the treatment McCain received is not torture.

Completely false. Why don't you take your smears elsewhere?

Zyphlin · 08-20-08, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danarhea

If you believe President Bush's administration on whether the United States tortures or not, then John McCain was not tortured when he was a POW. Stress Positions? Beatings? Extremes in temperature? Sleep deprivation? We do that every day, and according to Bush, this is not torture.

Source where the Bush Administration that said beatings were not considered torture? And to actually prove your point, specifically something showing that they're fine with beatings to the point where physical degradation of movement ability occurs.

Or is this just a load of BS you're overblowing to make an inflammatory point so you can create a new daily attack the GOP thread?

PeteEU · 08-21-08, 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RightinNYC

Completely false. Why don't you take your smears elsewhere?

Oh is it? Are you sure?

Do you know the Bush administrations definition of torture? Do you know how McCain was so called tortured?

PeteEU · 08-21-08, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zyphlin

Source where the Bush Administration that said beatings were not considered torture? And to actually prove your point, specifically something showing that they're fine with beatings to the point where physical degradation of movement ability occurs.

Or is this just a load of BS you're overblowing to make an inflammatory point so you can create a new daily attack the GOP thread?

McClatchy Washington Bureau | 06/16/2008 | Day 2: U.S. abuse of detainees was routine at Afghanistan bases

That the Bush administration did not react nor punish the people involved.. shows that they approved of the treatment.

Zyphlin · 08-21-08, 09:57 AM

Have anything...at all...from an even semi-non partisan, non-agenda having, source Pete?

And again, I ask, show me where the Administration has Stated that Beatings are approved methods of enhanced interrogation as they call it.

PeteEU · 08-21-08, 02:01 PM

McCain in his own words has state he was "knocked around"

Quote:

"I thought they were bluffing and refused to provide any information beyond my name, rank and serial number, and date of birth. They knocked me around a little to force my cooperation."

John McCain: Torture Worked on Me

Gezz I quoted a Newsmax article.. Anyways, McCain has stated, he was "knocked around" not beaten.

The Pentagon memo from 2003 which was recently released states the following.

Pentagon memo OK'd harsh interrogation - USATODAY.com

Quote:

"This standard permits some physical contact," the memo said. "Employing a shove or slap as part of an interrogation would not run afoul of this standard."

ABC reported this in 2005 btw, but it was ignored.

ABC News: CIA's Harsh Interrogation Techniques Described

Quote:

1. The Attention Grab: The interrogator forcefully grabs the shirt front of the prisoner and shakes him.

2. Attention Slap: An open-handed slap aimed at causing pain and triggering fear.

3. The Belly Slap: A hard open-handed slap to the stomach. The aim is to cause pain, but not internal injury. Doctors consulted advised against using a punch, which could cause lasting internal damage.

4. Long Time Standing: This technique is described as among the most effective. Prisoners are forced to stand, handcuffed and with their feet shackled to an eye bolt in the floor for more than 40 hours. Exhaustion and sleep deprivation are effective in yielding confessions.

5. The Cold Cell: The prisoner is left to stand naked in a cell kept near 50 degrees. Throughout the time in the cell the prisoner is doused with cold water.

6. Water Boarding: The prisoner is bound to an inclined board, feet raised and head slightly below the feet. Cellophane is wrapped over the prisoner's face and water is poured over him. Unavoidably, the gag reflex kicks in and a terrifying fear of drowning leads to almost instant pleas to bring the treatment to a halt.

The Pentagon memo from 2003 done by Yoo, states also

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/02/wa.../02terror.html

Quote:

Similar to the document written for the C.I.A. in August 2002, Mr. Yoo’s memorandum offered a narrow definition of what constitutes torture.

“The victim must experience intense pain or suffering of the kind that is equivalent to the pain that would be associated with serious physical injury so severe that death, organ failure or permanent damage resulting in a loss of significant body functions will likely result,” Mr. Yoo wrote.

Hence McCain was not tortured according to the US government.