Pathetic Desperate Last-Ditch Effort To Derail Reform

Strucky · 12-27-09, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whip Comes Down

Where does the Constitution say Sarah Palin and her fellow Republicans can't set up Death Panels?

That makes no sense whatsoever.

MrVicchio · 12-27-09, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whip Comes Down

Why don't you give us your expert legal opinion on whether Sarah Palin's Death Panels are Constitutional?

Since she's not proposing death panels.... and can't enact them that would be a rather impossible task.

How about you prove where the Fed's can force people to buy a product or service or face jail time.

MrVicchio · 12-27-09, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Loin

Clearly you have neither given up on responding to him nor reading his drek. I suggest you do both, you could clean lint from your navel and it would be a better use of time than reading or bothering with the "spec ops lawyer" teenager. Just sayin.

While you DO have a point, WCD is like reading the funny pages in a paper. You just have to drop in and see what silliness is going on.

MrVicchio · 12-27-09, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whip Comes Down

France's publicly run scheme hasn't resulted in rationing.

Quote:

Health Care Around the World: France
April 14, 2008 in Health Care Around the World, International Health Care Systems
France is often seen by liberals as the ideal system. It has universal health care, with few waiting lists. France has the highest level of satisfaction with their health care among all European countries. How can this be? What is their secret?

France provides a basic, universal health insurances through large occupation-based funds. The General National Health Inusrance Scheme covers 83% of French workers, while other occupational specific (e.g.: for agricultural workers, for the self employed, for miners, etc.) cover the remainder. About 99% of individuals are covered by this universal health insurance system.

However, France utilizes more market-based ideas than most people realized. Copayment rates for most services are 10%-40%. About 92% of French residents have complementary private health insurance.

In essence, the French system avoids widespread rationing because, unlike true single-payer systems, it employs market forces. Even the OECD says that the “proportion of the population with private health insurance” and the degree of cost sharing are key determinants of how severe waiting lists will be.

Insured. About 99% of French residents are covered by the national health insurance scheme.

Cost. France is the third most expensive health care system (~11% of GDP). While the system has generally been well funded, in 2005 the health care system ran a €11.6 billion deficit and in 2006 the health care system had a €10.3 billion deficit. No centrally planned health insurance system will be immune from occasional (or even frequent) deficits.

Funding. Most of the funding is from a 13.55% payroll tax (employers pay 12.8%, individuals pay 0.75%). There is a 5.25% general social contribution tax on income as well. Thus, there is an approximately a 18.8% on employees for health insurance. There are also dedicated taxes which are assessed on tobacco, alcohol, and pharmaceutical company revenues.

Private Insurance. “More than 92% of French residents have complementary private insurance.” This insurance pays for additional fees in order to access higher quality providers. Private health insurances makes up 12.7% of French health care spending. These complementary private insurance funds are very loosely regulated (less than in the U.S.) and the only stringent requirement is guaranteed renewability. Private insurance benefits are not equally distributed so there is, in essence, a two-tier system.

Physician Compensation. French doctors are paid by the national health insurance system based on a centrally planned fee schedule, but doctors can charge whatever price they want. The fees are based on an up front treatment lump sum, which is similar to DRGs in the U.S. The patient–or their private insurance–must make up the difference between the fee charged by the doctor and the amount paid for by the universal health care system. The average French doctor earns only €40,000, although medical school is free for them and the French legal system is fairly tort-averse.

Physician Choice. The French have a fair amount of choice in which doctors they choose. However, recently the French have moved towards a more “managed care” practice style where patients have a “preferred doctors” who acts as a gatekeeper for specialists.

Copayment/Deductibles. 10% to 40% copayments.

Technology. The government does not reimburse new technologies very generously and because of global budgets and fee restrictions, there is little incentive to make capital investments in medical technology.

Waiting Times. France has generally avoided waiting lists, likely due to the fairly high coinsurance charges. Recent trends towards Increased restrictions, reduced reimbursement rates, and rationing has increased wait times however.

Tanner’s summary. “To sum up: the French health care system clearly works better than most national health care systems. Despite some problems, France has generally avoided the rationing inherent in other systems. However, the program is threatened by increasing costs and may be forced to resort to rationing in the future.”

Healthcare Economist Health Care Around the World: France

Charles Martel · 12-27-09, 08:39 PM

The only pathetic...ism here is those who think this is reform. We ain't this idiotic...are we?

Strucky · 12-29-09, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles Martel

The only pathetic...ism here is those who think this is reform. We ain't this idiotic...are we?

I think Deform is a better term.

DarkWizard12 · 12-29-09, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strucky

I think Deform is a better term.

For now on, we must call this bill by why what it is, Health Deform Bill. If we call it the "Health Reform Bill", we are calling it by what the liberals named it, and that is letting them frame the debate.

Whip Comes Down · 12-29-09, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrVicchio

How about you prove where the Fed's can force people to buy a product or service or face jail time.

Can you afford to pay $500.00 an hour for my legal expertise?

Whip Comes Down · 12-29-09, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrVicchio

Since she's not proposing death panels.

It is well established that Sarah Palin proposed that section 1233 of HR 3200 be construed to mean that it provides for the establishment of death panels that will basically pull the plug on grandma because it’s too expensive to let her live anymore.

Sarah Palin: Concerning the "Death Panels" | Facebook

Strucky · 12-29-09, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whip Comes Down

Can you afford to pay $500.00 an hour for my legal expertise?

12-27-09, 08:39 PM	#25
Charles Martel Professor Join Date: Sep 2009 Last Seen: 03-15-10 08:55 AM Posts: 1,661 Thanks: 87 Thanked 268 Times in 219 Posts Lean: Conservative Gender:	Re: Pathetic Desperate Last-Ditch Effort To Derail Reform The only pathetic...ism here is those who think this is reform. We ain't this idiotic...are we?
	__________________ It was the Austrasians, that hewed on bravely through the thick of the fight, it was they who found and cut down the Saracen King.

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