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The Real FDR (1 Viewer)

flaja

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I don’t know if this the proper sub-board for this; it is more politics in theory than it is politics in current events.

To the left Franklin D. Roosevelt is presented as being the founding father of modern liberalism. To the right Franklin D. Roosevelt is presented as an arch socialist who was hell-bent on effecting the country’s demise. Neither presentation seems to be entirely true. We have all been lied to for the sake of politics. We have allowed today’s politics to color our perception of the past. But it is absolute folly to project the politics of today onto the history of the past; both get mangled in the process.

It is amazing and alarming how the times have changed. All in all there was practically no partisan bickering during the 1930s- certainly nothing comparable to what the country had known before or has experienced since. The United States had a kinder, gentler politics in the 1930s. Then, as opposed to now, the parties were willing and able to put the country’s interests ahead of their own.

The Republicans of the 1930s (unlike the libertarians that have controlled the party since the 1970s) came from a pro-active government tradition that saw Republican support for the Homestead laws and the creation of the public school systems in the South during Reconstruction as well as protective tariffs, government subsidies to the railroad industry, trust busting and the income tax. Republicans of the 1930s did not oppose the New Deal on philosophical grounds. They may have opposed Roosevelt’s tactics and their failure to achieve their objective, but Republicans generally supported their objective- ending the Great Depression.

At the same time the Democrats were equally tame. They were groping in the dark, looking for their core political philosophy after finding themselves the dominant party again after eight decades in which they had won only four presidential elections (Cleveland and Wilson twice each). Not since the Era of Good Feelings that followed the end of the War of 1812 had national political factions been so united in a common cause.

America’s political parties are no longer united, and their disunion has given contemporary American a false view of the past which threatens the prospects for their future.

I have studied history, mainly American history, for almost as long as I have known how to read- over 35 years. My bachelor’s degree in biology comes with 40 credit hours in history. In all of my schooling and all of my reading (until now) I have never been given an accurate picture of FDR. I was foolish enough to fall for the left’s wishful thinking and the right’s empty rhetoric.

But, I have been reading Walter E. Leuchtenburg’s Franklin D. Roosevelt and The New Deal, and I am seeing FDR in an entirely new light.

1. FDR had no pre-conceived agenda when he received the Democrat Party’s 1932 presidential nomination. The term “new deal” was just something that Roosevelt used on the spur of the moment during his acceptance speech at the 1932 Democrat National Convention. During the campaign FDR complained about Herbert Hoover’s relief and recovery spending- similar to what Roosevelt himself eventually accepted. The New Deal was a hodge-podge of under-developed ideas and policies that FDR and his Brain Trust advisors put together between Election Day 1932 and Inauguration Day 1933. The American People in 1932 (much as they did in 1992 and 2008) elected someone who did not have any concrete policy goals. The New Deal, as embodied by the first hundred days of the congressional session in 1933, was more a reaction to current events (the bank crisis for example) than it was a concerted plan from Roosevelt. All in all several of the programs we now most associate with Roosevelt’s New Deal (ones that still have socio-economic and political implications today- FHA, unemployment insurance and Social Security) came from liberals in Congress and not Roosevelt.

2. Unlike Republicans and Democrats of recent decades FDR was a deficit hawk. He was not interested in budget-busting federal spending even at the cost of prolonging the Great Depression. And for the most part the American People were in no mood for deficits either. In the midst of the One Hundred Days Congress that approved, with astonishing speed, FDR’s first round of New Deal relief, recovery and reform programs in 1933 came the Economy Bill- legislation deigned to reduce federal spending by cutting veterans’ benefits and salaries for federal employees. There is no mention of the Economy Bill in my advanced placement American History text, Bailey et al’s The American Pageant, and liberals excoriate Hoover for having General MacArthur drive the Bonus Army out of D.C. In liberal academia FDR can do no wrong while anyone named Reagan or Bush can do no right. In comparison to Reagan, both Bushs and the Republican-controlled Congress from 1995 to 2007 FDR and the Democrats of the 1930s are the conservatives ones.

3. FDR was not the friend of labor that the left supposes him to be. Roosevelt did not like labor unions. He saw unions as the source of labor unrest and he believed that labor unrest would prevent economic recovery. Ronald Reagan may have been a union buster, but FDR would have preferred that unions were not established in the first place. The National Recovery Administration that was designed to promote economic cooperation rather than competition among American industrialists gave labor no concrete role in the process.

4. FDR was opposed to spending the money necessary to stimulate the economy. He didn’t entirely understand or trust Keynesian theory whereby government spending is supposed to stimulate the economy. Pumping money into the building industry would have had trickle-down effects throughout the economy that could have ended the Depression, but FDR was never willing to spend enough money to do it. And with the WPA, CWA and PWA all having the same purpose and each with an administrator that was more often than at loggerheads with the administrators of the other agencies there was so much infighting within FDR’s administration that the small amount of money that he was willing to spend to stimulate the economy didn’t stand a chance of being effective. In the long run Ronald Reagan was more of a Keynesian that Roosevelt was even though Reagan was supposed to be the champion of supply-side economics. Between increased welfare spending and his defense buildup Reagan spent money to stimulate the economy that Roosevelt never would have considered.

5. FDR was opposed to welfare spending as much for philosophical reasons as budgetary reasons. He (correctly) thought government handouts would encourage people to be lazy and unwilling to accept whatever jobs that may be available. Direct government payments to individuals during FDR’s administration were a pittance compared to what they become under Lyndon Johnson, Richard Nixon, Jimmy Carter, Reagan, Bush I, Slick, Bush II and now Obama. The so-called liberal FDR was more opposed to the welfare state than any of his so-called conservative successors have been.

With this new and better understanding of FDR I have to wonder why the country put up with him and kept re-electing him when it was obvious that he either wouldn’t support policies that might have ended the Depression or didn’t know enough about economics to know what policies to support.
 
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There was no political bickering in comparison to what the country had before or has had since. FDR was just as likely to get the support of Republicans in Congress as he was Democrats- much of what FDR proposed had originated with Republican progressives. And in the country at large even the rich supported FDR until his soak the rich tax scheme of 1937.
 
There was no political bickering in comparison to what the country had before or has had since. FDR was just as likely to get the support of Republicans in Congress as he was Democrats- much of what FDR proposed had originated with Republican progressives. And in the country at large even the rich supported FDR until his soak the rich tax scheme of 1937.

There was just as much political bickering, fisticuffs actually during pre-civil war days, absolute bedlam during the 1968 Dem Nat Convention, this leverl of bickering is nothing new, we certainly ain't pulling pistols to settle arguments.

And to be noted, politics didn't play with FDR's waging of war. We were a united front as far as the war was concerned. There were no Senators coming out to claim the war is lost, no House members accusing our Marines of murder.
 
There was no political bickering in comparison to what the country had before or has had since. FDR was just as likely to get the support of Republicans in Congress as he was Democrats- much of what FDR proposed had originated with Republican progressives. And in the country at large even the rich supported FDR until his soak the rich tax scheme of 1937.

You could not be more wrong. In fact, it's mild today in some respects compared to previous times.

The negative today is that so much is determined by media. Our elections today resemble more of an American Idol contest than a presidential election.

Abraham Lincoln, with his high-pitched voice and odd looks, wouldn't stand a chance today. This country would rather elect George Clooney than Lincoln.
 
And to be noted, politics didn't play with FDR's waging of war. We were a united front as far as the war was concerned.

Well, sort of.

There was a huge isolationist anti-war sentiment during the early parts of WWII. Hitler was wreaking havoc all over Europe, while most Americans wanted to let it play out there. We weren't far removed from WWI, and Americans didn't have the stomach for it.

It took Pearl Harbor to get us committed, which we did full force. The challenge was our planes, ships, and military equipment were inferior in many respects to what Japan and Germany had, and we had to go into overdrive to produce better weaponry fast (which we did, and pulled our country out of the Depression in the process).
 
Well, sort of.

There was a huge isolationist anti-war sentiment during the early parts of WWII. Hitler was wreaking havoc all over Europe, while most Americans wanted to let it play out there. We weren't far removed from WWI, and Americans didn't have the stomach for it.

It took Pearl Harbor to get us committed, which we did full force. The challenge was our planes, ships, and military equipment were inferior in many respects to what Japan and Germany had, and we had to go into overdrive to produce better weaponry fast (which we did, and pulled our country out of the Depression in the process).

Correct, a great book called "There's a War to be Won" describes exactly what you say here. This second paragraph is dead on.
 
There was just as much political bickering, fisticuffs actually during pre-civil war days, absolute bedlam during the 1968 Dem Nat Convention, this leverl of bickering is nothing new, we certainly ain't pulling pistols to settle arguments.

Which is what I said. Politics in the 1930s was nothing like what we had had before or have had since. The political parties were more likely to cooperate with each other than they were to compete with each other.

And to be noted, politics didn't play with FDR's waging of war.

We were not fighting any war in the 1930s, which is the time period I address.
 
You could not be more wrong. In fact, it's mild today in some respects compared to previous times.

Give some examples. Just how are today's politics mild in comparison to what the country had in the 1930s?

The negative today is that so much is determined by media.

Newspapers in the 1930s were ever bit the equivalent of TV today. As far as the press was concerned FDR's main opposition from the news media came from William Randolph Hurst- a fellow Democrat and this was only after FDR proposed his soak the rich tax plan.
 
Which is what I said. Politics in the 1930s was nothing like what we had had before or have had since. The political parties were more likely to cooperate with each other than they were to compete with each other.

Seems a depression and a growing menace abroad finally forced Americans to cooperate more, set their differences aside. Today, we face some of the same adversaries, I wonder if cooperation will return? We'll have to see after Dems are voted out, they certainly ain't gonna cooperate, extremists rarely do.
 
Give some examples. Just how are today's politics mild in comparison to what the country had in the 1930s?

You're talking about the days of Al Capone and the beginnings of "Chicago politics."

Since the character assassination of John Adams by Thomas Jefferson, the stealing of an election from Andrew Jackson by attacking the validity of his marriage, to the "ape-like" descriptions of Lincoln by his opponents, etc, etc, it has always been a big part of politics.

But it was Lyndon Johnson who paternized the style of today, which is to strawman and demagogue ad nauseum, keeping your opponents off point and on the defensive constantly. Dumb down your voter base and constantly distract from the primary issues of the day. That's the LBJ way.
 
Seems a depression and a growing menace abroad finally forced Americans to cooperate more, set their differences aside. Today, we face some of the same adversaries, I wonder if cooperation will return? We'll have to see after Dems are voted out, they certainly ain't gonna cooperate, extremists rarely do.

Yes, because Republicans are so dead-on about the will of the people that they made health care reform a major part of their initiative when they held the White and Congress in previous years.

Oh wait...
 
You're talking about the days of Al Capone and the beginnings of "Chicago politics."
you're mixing up the 20's with the 30's.

Since the character assassination of John Adams by Thomas Jefferson, the stealing of an election from Andrew Jackson by attacking the validity of his marriage, to the "ape-like" descriptions of Lincoln by his opponents, etc, etc, it has always been a big part of politics.

But it was Lyndon Johnson who paternized the style of today, which is to strawman and demagogue ad nauseum, keeping your opponents off point and on the defensive constantly. Dumb down your voter base and constantly distract from the primary issues of the day. That's the LBJ way.
Right. And if you were in congress in the middle of the 19th century there was a chance you could be physically beaten by your colleagues. You are actually supporting flaja's claim that the 30's were milder than anything before or since.
 
Yes, because Republicans are so dead-on about the will of the people that they made health care reform a major part of their initiative when they held the White and Congress in previous years.

Oh wait...

Actually tort reform and real interstate competititon were Republican attempts at health care reform, what we don't support...and what many Democrats also don't support...is the public option or massive expansion of Medicare.

Again, the majority of Americans don't support this albatross, the Dems are having trouble passing it even with their overwhelming numbers advantage. Why do you think that is?
 
you're mixing up the 20's with the 30's.

Right. And if you were in congress in the middle of the 19th century there was a chance you could be physically beaten by your colleagues. You are actually supporting flaja's claim that the 30's were milder than anything before or since.

Not mixing them up; they blended.

Consider the 30s began with the Depression and Dust Bowl, followed by an incredibly uneasy tension as Hitler began taking Europe apart and Japan joined the axis. Imagine if Iran bombed Israel tomorrow and North Korea attacked South Korea. I think we'd become a bit less politically polarized. (This is coming, btw. Just a matter of time.)
 
Not mixing them up; they blended.

Consider the 30s began with the Depression and Dust Bowl, followed by an incredibly uneasy tension as Hitler began taking Europe apart and Japan joined the axis. Imagine if Iran bombed Israel tomorrow and North Korea attacked South Korea. I think we'd become a bit less politically polarized. (This is coming, btw. Just a matter of time.)

you mentioned Al Capone and Chicago. that was the 20's. Al Capone was in prison during the 30's.

I have no idea what you're talking about in your last post. it has nothing to with lesser political tensions in the 30's.
 
I have no idea what you're talking about in your last post. it has nothing to with lesser political tensions in the 30's.

I'm saying that amidst a REAL crisis (not conjured up hoaxes like global warming or healthcare), people tended to truly unite around the needed cause. That isn't to say they didn't harbor the same tensions; they just set them slightly aside. The 30s saw the most tangibly real crises since probably the Revolution with an inevitable World War abroad and an economic calamity at home. (Unfortunately, FDR during that time laid the socialist groundwork for the problems of today.)

Politics were gruesome then as well, but it didn't get the play it does in a more "boring" time. And locking Capone away didn't solve the organized criminal aspect that bled into politics, law enforcement, and generalized corruption.

I'm glad I wasn't around to see those times, let alone be a politician then.
 

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