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Senate blocks census US-citizenship question

Blocking that question is as ridiculous as the fact that it wasn't there to begin with. The justifications fall flat as well

Critics said Vitter's plan would discourage immigrants from responding to the census
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Only illegals - and why the hell should they be in the cencus?

and would be hugely expensive
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An obvious fall back becaue the primary argument is completely uncompelling

They also said that it's long been settled law that the apportionment of congressional seats is determined by the number of people living in each state, regardless of whether they are citizens
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Anybody have more info on whatever the hell this is supposed to mean?
 
It's a political ploy either way you go. I'm sure if the Reps were in power they'd seek to retain a "blind" census count also.

The Dems are correct that the number of Senate seats is dependent on the number of residents within a given state. But the Reps are correct in wanting only legally registered voters (because this is part of what they're getting at, not the sum of it, but part of the census equation) counted within their respective states.

The more heads that are counted, the more delegates go to Washington. And if you can reduce those numbers among the Hispanic population - a demographic that historically tends to vote Democrat - you remove some Democrat seats from Washington. That's what this census issue is really all about. I can't say I blame the Reps here, though. However, I'd want the citizenship question answered not for political reasons, but to ensure that those who are here are here legally. But unfortunately for the Reps, that type of information apparently can be obtained by another means. So, it looks like the census data collected will remain "blind data" as far as the citizenship question is concerned.
 
Kernel Sanders said:
Blocking that question is as ridiculous as the fact that it wasn't there to begin with. The justifications fall flat as well



Only illegals - and why the hell should they be in the cencus?



An obvious fall back becaue the primary argument is completely uncompelling



Anybody have more info on whatever the hell this is supposed to mean?
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It means, and I say this in all earnestness, the senate is now engaged in a criminal conspiracy, at the very least aiding and abetting a criminal enterprise.
 
Objective Voice said:
It's a political ploy either way you go. I'm sure if the Reps were in power they'd seek to retain a "blind" census count also.

The Dems are correct that the number of Senate seats is dependent on the number of residents within a given state. But the Reps are correct in wanting only legally registered voters (because this is part of what they're getting at, not the sum of it, but part of the census equation) counted within their respective states.

The more heads that are counted, the more delegates go to Washington. And if you can reduce those numbers among the Hispanic population - a demographic that historically tends to vote Democrat - you remove some Democrat seats from Washington. That's what this census issue is really all about. I can't say I blame the Reps here, though. However, I'd want the citizenship question answered not for political reasons, but to ensure that those who are here are here legally. But unfortunately for the Reps, that type of information apparently can be obtained by another means. So, it looks like the census data collected will remain "blind data" as far as the citizenship question is concerned.
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The issue is first the criminality of the Senate.

Then the question of national sovereignty.

Then the question of the impact of a permanent resident criminal class of foreign invaders.

And then somewhere way down the list we can address the issue of Demographics for Democrats.

It's time to eject the Good Senators, prosecute them and imprison them.
 
Kernel Sanders said:
Anybody have more info on whatever the hell this is supposed to mean?
They also said that it's long been settled law that the apportionment of congressional seats is determined by the number of people living in each state, regardless of whether they are citizens.
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U.S. Constitution, Art. 1, Sect. 2:
The House of Representatives shall be composed of Members chosen every second Year by the People of the several States...
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Oftencold said:
It's time to eject the Good Senators, prosecute them and imprison them.
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Let's be fair here, Oftencold, the Senate really has no business being involved in this issue in the first place as they receive an equal amount of Senators from each state - 2 a piece - per Art 1, Sect 3 and the 17th Amendement. However, what the 17th Amendment does is gives certain power to the legislative branch - the House - as quoted below:

The electors in each State shall have the qualifications requisite for electors of the most numerous branch of the State legislatures.
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I'm not exactly sure what that means, but I believe what this says is it re-enforces the fact that Senators are elected by the people and not by the legistlative branch as was once the case. Either that or it's saying that members of the Electoral College from each state has a say in who is qualified to be Senator in their respective states. If the former is the case, then it stands to reason why the GOP would want to remove illegals from being counted in the census since, as I've stated above, most Hispanics do tend to vote Democrat and not Republican.

Kernel Sanders said:
That's just saying that the House is popularly elected. I'm asking about the settled law that states the Census should include non-citizens
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I'd have to look for the law governing how census data is collected, but it's always been my understanding that the U.S. Census Burea has never inquired as to whether or not a participant was a citizen or not. I don't even think that information is collected on voter registration cards.
 
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Objective Voice said:
I'd have to look for the law governing how census data is collected, but it's always been my understanding that the U.S. Census Burea has never inquired as to whether or not a participant was a citizen or not. I don't even think that information is collected on voter registration cards.
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That's my understanding too, that it just doesn't ask. The article is asserting that it is established law that the Census shouldn't ask, which is a different issue, and strikes me as odd.
 
Kernel Sanders said:
That's just saying that the House is popularly elected. I'm asking about the settled law that states the Census should include non-citizens
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It should not count non-citizens. If they can't vote, they got no say, no say means no need to count them.
 
MrVicchio said:
It should not count non-citizens. If they can't vote, they got no say, no say means no need to count them.
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And to that, I agree. Still, I suspect that unless and until census data and voting registration data are made part of the same data collection process, this issue will continue to be an area of political rangling for a long time.
 
How exactly would this actually work? If you ask an illegal immigrant "are you a citizen" do you think he is going to respond with a "no"? Asking someone a question in which they are motivated to lie with no validation is quite pointless.
 
Moderator's Warning:
The birther topic ends now or thread bans are going to be handed out
 
MrVicchio said:
This should outrage any AMERICAN.... the Census determines representatives... if someone isn't a citizen, they cannot vote, thus they deserve no representation.
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This is a fun soundbyte, but it's incorrect.

http://volokh.com/2009/08/14/our-unconstitutional-census/

The 14th Amendment:

Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice-President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.
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Read the whole thing, it explains it in excruciating detail.
 
That clinches it in a nutshell, folks (Re: The opening sentence to the 14th Amendment and Art 1, Sects 1 & 2). Granted, it's crappy "by the numbers" counting, but that's how our system of government works, flawed or otherwise. That's why I strongly believe that the more accurate way to "count heads" for the purpose of proper state representation of elected officials is to count authentic, validated voter registration cards and not rely on census data. But that's my opinion.
 
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