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Thread: White privilege

  1. #11
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    Re: White privilege

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    You're missing the point. This isn't a micro thing, it's a macro thing. Any given white person could easily be far poorer or have less social mobility than any given black person. However, after 200+ years of whites as a whole absorbing wealth and repressing blacks as a whole, the per capita wealth of blacks is dramatically less than it is for whites.
    This isn't any individual's fault, just a historic reality. Wealth is passed down along the generations and blacks have had less wealth to pass down. Regardless of your race, having dirt poor or uneducated parents will echo down through multiple generations. Couple that with the fact that schools in black neighborhoods are statistically underfunded compared to white neighborhoods, there absolutely is an effect. When you take everything into account blacks as a whole have less wealth and opportunity than whites as a whole.
    We do live in a global world and the black woman may be a Kikuyu, Luo, Hutu, or other ethnic group that had privilege in their homeland and sufficient wealth to have some privilege when immigrating to the US. And the white guy may be some Romanian who has been kicked around wherever he lived.
    Add to the confusion that there is no consensus on what the races are or how they are determined. At the ever expanding fringes, there is no consensus. There is no science in race. Is a Basque or even Spaniard Hispanic? Is a Turk white? Who knows? These are politically created groups and therefore some privilege from politics. No Hmong need apply. The "Asian-American" category is filled with Chinese and Japanese.
    Growing up 50 years ago we understood the evil of racial policies. But now we seem to have the feeling that racial policies are OK as long as the "proper races" benefit. That just seems weird, especially when we know economics trumps race significantly.
    And race based policies are contrary to equal protection laws. Even if developed to "help" a disadvantaged group.

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    Re: White privilege

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGoverness View Post
    Partly. I don't find it racist, I just don't agree with it. I think "privilege" (for the most part) really depends on one's socio-economic status.
    Aaah, but this is precisely the point! The black liberationist recognizes race as a form of social status; as a kind of social class. In other words, all other factors (wealth level, age, gender, location, etc.) being the same, people will tend to treat you worse for being black than for being white. That's not to say it's right, but that it's the state of the world as things presently are.

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    Re: White privilege

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Nobody doubts that there are tons of blacks who are way smarter, way better educated, and way more successful than you. We all find that very believable. You can't however pretend that blacks in America have the exact same level of opportunity as whites. There absolutely is a difference. The best example of "white privilege" is whining on internet forums about how oppressed you are because someone pointed out blacks as a whole don't have the exact same opportunities as whites as a whole.



    Of course it's an economic issue, and that economic issue hits blacks and other minorities harder than it does whites. We do have our programs based around income and not race right now, but because of historical reasons that naturally is going to include more blacks. I don't really understand what's so hard for some people to recognize that while yes, you as an individual can make your own destiny, groups of people as a whole still have statistical disadvantages from past circumstances.
    The point is that rich privilege is not the same as white privilege no matter what race based US history helped to cause that to be so. BTW that (bolded above) assertion is not true - there may be a higher percentage of poor blacks in the US but there are more poor whites in the US than poor blacks. Using purely racial (ethnic?) statistical data it would seem that Asian privilege is a bigger issue.
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    Re: White privilege

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    You're missing the point. This isn't a micro thing, it's a macro thing. Any given white person could easily be far poorer or have less social mobility than any given black person. However, after 200+ years of whites as a whole absorbing wealth and repressing blacks as a whole, the per capita wealth of blacks is dramatically less than it is for whites.

    This isn't any individual's fault, just a historic reality. Wealth is passed down along the generations and blacks have had less wealth to pass down. Regardless of your race, having dirt poor or uneducated parents will echo down through multiple generations. Couple that with the fact that schools in black neighborhoods are statistically underfunded compared to white neighborhoods, there absolutely is an effect. When you take everything into account blacks as a whole have less wealth and opportunity than whites as a whole.



    By the way that you would actually say something this ridiculously stupid shows you've never opened a history book in your life. This, what you're experiencing as a white person right now, is the worst and most extreme case of racism mankind has ever seen?
    The macro thing describes why blacks are more likely to be in poverty and bad schools than whites by percentage of the whole. But this doesn't explain the individual cases of people escaping poverty.

    If a white person can escape poverty, so can a black person, because that means poverty is escapable. White people also go to bad schools, and white people also have generational poverty. If you acknowledge that extreme effort can break the poverty cycke, then it is disingenuous to also claim the cycle is too hard to break as an excuse.

    Unpacking the rest of the knapsack is a sociology problem, and not well founded in statistics. What is the real effect of having bandaids and dolls match the skin color of "your oppressors"? Well, that all depends on who you label an oppressor in the first place
    Last edited by Gonzo Rodeo; 02-15-17 at 10:04 AM.
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    Re: White privilege

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    You're missing the point. This isn't a micro thing, it's a macro thing. Any given white person could easily be far poorer or have less social mobility than any given black person. However, after 200+ years of whites as a whole absorbing wealth and repressing blacks as a whole, the per capita wealth of blacks is dramatically less than it is for whites.

    This isn't any individual's fault, just a historic reality. Wealth is passed down along the generations and blacks have had less wealth to pass down. Regardless of your race, having dirt poor or uneducated parents will echo down through multiple generations. Couple that with the fact that schools in black neighborhoods are statistically underfunded compared to white neighborhoods, there absolutely is an effect. When you take everything into account blacks as a whole have less wealth and opportunity than whites as a whole.



    By the way that you would actually say something this ridiculously stupid shows you've never opened a history book in your life. This, what you're experiencing as a white person right now, is the worst and most extreme case of racism mankind has ever seen?
    You're conflating culture and neighborhoods with skin color. You choose the most over-simplified approach to a complex problem and arrived at a bad conclusion. Look at the multi-generational poverty in white Appalachian communities. Is that because they are white or because of the culture and surroundings they live in??
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    Re: White privilege

    Quote Originally Posted by Cable View Post
    Is this one of the most mainstream racist ideas out there?
    This is saying I am somehow different because of my skin color. Really? Liberals, will you wake up please?
    This is indeed racist extremism at it's worst. We have enough BS going to that divides us as a country.
    So you actually don't know what 'white privilege' actually is.

    So why bother posting about it?
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    Re: White privilege

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    The point is that rich privilege is not the same as white privilege no matter what race based US history helped to cause that to be so. BTW that (bolded above) assertion is not true - there may be a higher percentage of poor blacks in the US but there are more poor whites in the US than poor blacks. Using purely racial (ethnic?) statistical data it would seem that Asian privilege is a bigger issue.
    Everything I said was based on per capita numbers. The median wealth of white families is 16 times higher than it is for black families. There are certainly people, maybe even in this thread, that think it's because blacks are simply lazier and less capable than whites intrinsically, but there is a plethora of historical and socioeconomic reasons for it.

    graph.jpg
    Source: The Racial Wealth Gap
    Analysis: Forbes - The Racial Wealth Gap

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    The macro thing describes why blacks are more likely to be in poverty and bad schools than whites by percentage of the whole. But this doesn't explain the individual cases of people escaping poverty.

    If a white person can escape poverty, so can a black person, because that means poverty is escapable. White people also go to bad schools, and white people also have generational poverty. If you acknowledge that extreme effort can break the poverty cycke, then it is disingenuous to also claim the cycle is too hard to break as an excuse.

    Unpacking the rest of the knapsack is a sociology problem, and not well founded in statistics. What is the real effect of having bandaids and dolls match the skin color of "your oppressors"? Well, that all depends on who you label an oppressor in the first place
    Of course, and keeping with your analogy, the walls one has to climb to "escape" poverty are statistically lower for the average white than they are for the average black. Sure, individuals on both sides can and do make it, but because of educational disparity, generational poverty and historical issues, blacks as a whole have to try harder to get the same level of opportunity as whites as a whole. Do you think the "bad schools" problem effects both races equally as bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    You're conflating culture and neighborhoods with skin color. You choose the most over-simplified approach to a complex problem and arrived at a bad conclusion. Look at the multi-generational poverty in white Appalachian communities. Is that because they are white or because of the culture and surroundings they live in??
    I'm well aware there is generational poverty in every community and every race. But you can't sit there with a straight face and pretend that the problem is equally bad for all communities. Do you think that all races in America at this moment have the exact same level of opportunity? Does the average black person have to work exactly as hard as the average white person to reach the same level of wealth and opportunity?
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    Re: White privilege

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo
    If a white person can escape poverty, so can a black person, because that means poverty is escapable.
    Actually, that does not follow. You're confusing predicate quantifiers. That a did P means that doing P is possible in a broadly logical sense. However, that P is possible in the broadly logical sense, or that a has done P, does not mean that b can do P. (note: a and b are to be read here as names, not particles).

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    Re: White privilege

    Quote Originally Posted by ashurbanipal View Post
    Actually, that does not follow. You're confusing predicate quantifiers. That a did P means that doing P is possible in a broadly logical sense. However, that P is possible in the broadly logical sense, or that a has done P, does not mean that b can do P. (note: a and b are to be read here as names, not particles).
    Logic seems to be foolish in this respect, because Blacks can and do escape poverty. Your point it taken, but not applicable.

    So the concept of White Privilege does what exactly for anyone?
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    Re: White privilege

    Quote Originally Posted by Cable View Post
    Is this one of the most mainstream racist ideas out there?
    This is saying I am somehow different because of my skin color. Really? Liberals, will you wake up please?
    This is indeed racist extremism at it's worst. We have enough BS going to that divides us as a country.
    I agree. Tell some schmuck in West Virginia with a drug addled daughter, with two or three kids, and a son down in the coal mines that he is privileged. See how well that flies.

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