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Thread: The fundamental problem with conservatives

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    Re: The fundamental problem with conservatives

    Quote Originally Posted by DifferentDrummr View Post
    Actually, the real problem with conservatives is that they all consider themselves to be self-made men and women, and therefore everyone else is obviously an inferior being.






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    Re: The fundamental problem with conservatives

    Interesting cartoons. Not sure how much based on reality they are. I suspect that many people who are protesting Trump are well established, elite, white people who have a strong need to prove that they are "woke" or something and patronizingly believe that they understand the stuff that the Paulas of the world go through even though they never came close to her in their lifestyle.
    I think that I started to become more conservative in my 20s when I realized that the elitism of my upbringing made it impossible to understand those less fortunate than me and it was not in my place to come up with programs to help them as that would imply that I understood them more than I did. So I try to help individuals, personally, not classes.

    Research found that 92% of those suspected of violent crimes at Left-leaning demonstrations still share their home with their parents.
    The study was carried out with data from Germany, and published in the German tabloid*BILD*– so results may vary compared to other Western activists.
    Nonetheless – the findings ring true:
    84% are male
    72% are aged 18-29
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    Re: The fundamental problem with conservatives

    Generalizing tens of millions people is foolish in the extremis.

    All cons (and all libs) are not anything in particular.

    To even ascribe ANY characteristic to people one has never even met is ridiculously arrogant.

    Every, single con is different. Just as every single lib is different. Even in the things they have in common, they will be different to the degree they are similar if one examines them deeply enough.
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    Re: The fundamental problem with conservatives

    Quote Originally Posted by DifferentDrummr View Post
    Actually, the real problem with conservatives is that they all consider themselves to be self-made men and women, and therefore everyone else is obviously an inferior being.
    Boo-coo irony, there.

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    Re: The fundamental problem with conservatives

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilly View Post






    While most of that is true life for some, there are some issues.

    Just because you are poor and struggling doesn't mean you will automatically accept mediocrity. I grew up in a poor household with neither parent graduating high school. If I were to have brought home anything less then an A, I was getting whipped and grounded. Conversely, one of my best friends was from a family that was upper middle class and his parents were excited to see a B and only really pressured him if he was failing.

    The other is credit. My parents started teaching me about how important credit was and got me a credit card at like 16 or 17.

    They wanted me to have a better life then what they experienced and prepared me to not make the same mistakes they did and now I am living a much more comfortable life than what they went through.

    It isn't where you start that decides the life you lead but the decisions you make. It is the parents responsibility to teach their children how to succeed and prepare them for life. If you are poor the blame can almost always be traced to poor decisions.

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    Re: The fundamental problem with conservatives

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilly View Post






    Why do liberals think the game is so rigged that the Paula character CAN'T succeed, no matter what she does?

    It's easy to blame others for one's current position.
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    Re: The fundamental problem with conservatives

    Quote Originally Posted by MrWonka View Post
    It seems like I'm finding that so many of the disagreements that we have in the United States today break down along the same exact lines. Conservatives fail to grasp the incredibly enormous distinction between knocking someone off their high horse, and stomping them into the ground. The difference between taking someone down a peg, and kicking them when they are already on the ground. One is not only acceptably, but often times very necessary, the other is absolutely abhorrent. What at a cursory glance may seem like the same actions, tactics, or behaviors are judged radically differently depending on who is using them against who.

    That doesn't mean it's a double standard it means that when you are in a position of power over someone you cannot blame them for using whatever means are at their disposal to defend themselves, but when you are the one who is dominating another person in every conceivable way to use cheap shots in order to further your dominance is completely out of line.

    Conservatives simply cannot grasp this reality. In their minds letting their opponents stand up is equivalent to being knocked down themselves. Worse yet their opponent isn't even trying to fight them, it simply wants to stand up. They assume that if their opponent gets to equal footing with them then they will start doing the same things to them that they have been doing to their opponent for decades.

    White Christian Men in our society have grown so accustom to their position of dominance that anything less than dominance over others is seen as an injury to them. How does one overcome this mental block and get through to these people?
    1: White Christian Men? Good to know that you have no problem marginalizing everyone in that is a Conservative that isn't white and/or isn't religious. And that you think racist thoughts.

    2: Bold: Yes, it is a double standard if you use the same cheap shots while trying to say that "you cannot blame them for using whatever means are at their disposal" and then expect them to not return the "favor". You don't seem to understand that if you want to "get along" then you need to NOT use cheap shots. (and no, conservatives are no better at understanding this) Reality shows that the old mantra of "an eye for an eye" is still very much at work from both sides of the fence. Even at the level of perceived slights.

    3: Red: The ole' "poor me" mantra. Plain fact of the matter is that Liberals are standing at the same level as Conservatives. But they LOVE playing the victim. They see everything through the "ism"/"ist"/"phobia" glasses. Where if the other side doesn't "conform" to a certain way of thinking then they are automatically a "racist" or "xenophobic" or are "racists" or {insert whatever other claim here} etc etc etc. And no, this isn't an attempt to deny that those things do not exist. But according to the Liberal side those only exist in the Conservative side and that it encompasses 97% if not all 100% of the Conservative side. When in reality, at worst, it only encompasses a max of 30%. (I'd say more around 10%). Liberals also love to ignore the "ism's" on their side of the fence. (often playing that victim card while doing it)
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    Re: The fundamental problem with conservatives

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    Why do liberals think the game is so rigged that the Paula character CAN'T succeed, no matter what she does?
    They don't. That is just right wing propaganda that leads you to believe this. Paula may be able to succeed, but it is clearly much much much more difficult for her. What liberals want is for the government to do for poor people what at least an average lower middle class parent could easily afford to do for their child. By helping to make sure that nobody is starting out the race of life way way behind everyone else we increase the likelihood that the very best, and most talented people will actually succeed.

    It's entirely possible that if Paula would have grown up in the same situation as Richard that she would have not only achieved the same success he did, but radically surpassed him. Meanwhile if Richard had grown up in the same situation as Paula he my have ended up in prison. There could be countless people just like Paula that are absolutely brilliant and have the next great idea that revolutionizes society for the better, but they're starting so far behind the rest of society they never reach a point where they can bring their ideas to fruition.

    Stupid people always complain about the fact that the squeaky wheel gets the oil. They convince themselves that there are millions of lazy "wheels" out there who don't really need oil at all they're just squeaking to get rewarded. This is complete and total bull****. The reality is wheels squeak because they need oil, and ignoring them just wrecks your wagon.

    Liberals simply realize that the whole point of a society is that we can achieve more as a team than we can as individuals. But like a professional sports team you can't just throw all your money at one player and ignore the rest. Tom Brady is obviously the most important player on the Patriots, but if you just keep throwing more and more money at him and ignored the offensive line or the defense then the Patriots would be terrible. It doesn't matter how good Brady is he couldn't carry the whole team by himself. A well run society should run like a good team. You give your stars enough to keep them from going to another team, but you have to invest in your bit players and your mid-level talent or your team will quickly go to ****.

    Any decent leader knows that it doesn't matter how good your CEO is if he doesn't have good talent underneath him to execute his plans the business will fail. Conversely you can have a pretty ****ty CEO, but if he has a lot of good talent around him the company will probably be fine. Well the problem we are having in this country right now is we don't have enough mid-level talent. We have more Job openings available in America today than we have at any point in American history. The problem is that most of those jobs require skills that not enough American's have.

    I'm a software developer and my company is having such a hard time finding decent IT people that they had no choice, but to open up an office in India. They didn't want to because the conference calls and the language barriers make it annoying, but we simply don't have the talent here in America because we're not investing in our children the way we should be. Republicans are making it so that only the wealth can afford the things their children need to succeed. They are dumping oil on wheels that aren't squeaking while letting the loudest wheel rust off the wagon.

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    Re: The fundamental problem with conservatives

    Quote Originally Posted by MrWonka View Post
    They don't. That is just right wing propaganda that leads you to believe this. Paula may be able to succeed, but it is clearly much much much more difficult for her. What liberals want is for the government to do for poor people what at least an average lower middle class parent could easily afford to do for their child. By helping to make sure that nobody is starting out the race of life way way behind everyone else we increase the likelihood that the very best, and most talented people will actually succeed.

    It's entirely possible that if Paula would have grown up in the same situation as Richard that she would have not only achieved the same success he did, but radically surpassed him. Meanwhile if Richard had grown up in the same situation as Paula he my have ended up in prison. There could be countless people just like Paula that are absolutely brilliant and have the next great idea that revolutionizes society for the better, but they're starting so far behind the rest of society they never reach a point where they can bring their ideas to fruition.

    Stupid people always complain about the fact that the squeaky wheel gets the oil. They convince themselves that there are millions of lazy "wheels" out there who don't really need oil at all they're just squeaking to get rewarded. This is complete and total bull****. The reality is wheels squeak because they need oil, and ignoring them just wrecks your wagon.

    Liberals simply realize that the whole point of a society is that we can achieve more as a team than we can as individuals. But like a professional sports team you can't just throw all your money at one player and ignore the rest. Tom Brady is obviously the most important player on the Patriots, but if you just keep throwing more and more money at him and ignored the offensive line or the defense then the Patriots would be terrible. It doesn't matter how good Brady is he couldn't carry the whole team by himself. A well run society should run like a good team. You give your stars enough to keep them from going to another team, but you have to invest in your bit players and your mid-level talent or your team will quickly go to ****.

    Any decent leader knows that it doesn't matter how good your CEO is if he doesn't have good talent underneath him to execute his plans the business will fail. Conversely you can have a pretty ****ty CEO, but if he has a lot of good talent around him the company will probably be fine. Well the problem we are having in this country right now is we don't have enough mid-level talent. We have more Job openings available in America today than we have at any point in American history. The problem is that most of those jobs require skills that not enough American's have.

    I'm a software developer and my company is having such a hard time finding decent IT people that they had no choice, but to open up an office in India. They didn't want to because the conference calls and the language barriers make it annoying, but we simply don't have the talent here in America because we're not investing in our children the way we should be. Republicans are making it so that only the wealth can afford the things their children need to succeed. They are dumping oil on wheels that aren't squeaking while letting the loudest wheel rust off the wagon.
    I don't necessarily disagree with the gist of what you are saying. Buy the idea that Paula will always have a harder time and Richard will always have an easier time is a tidy story and not an accurate reflection of reality.

    There are certain stereotypical assumptions of minorities and those of lower household incomes that muse be true and invoked in order to paint such a dire picture of privilege an insurmountable obstacles. Two people who work equally hard are not necessarily going to wind up in places predetermined by their household income growing up. Culturally speaking, however, a person's environment can and often does directly affect their willingness and ability to succeed. For kids, this is the sometimes tragic result of parents who, for whatever reason, have not done everything in their power to give their kids a better life. I am simply tired of hearing that there isn't a single lazy person out there who is poor because they deserve it, because bankers/big oil/the Koch Brothers/the Waltons, etc.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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    Re: The fundamental problem with conservatives

    Quote Originally Posted by DifferentDrummr View Post
    Actually, the real problem with conservatives is that they all consider themselves to be self-made men and women, and therefore everyone else is obviously an inferior being.
    Why do so many liberals, and democrats disdain people who have had success? I just don't understand that mindset....

    I applaud those that succeed, be they black, white, men, women, young or old.

    I realize how hard it is to reach a certain level of success, and even harder to maintain it

    Of course those people had help on the way up....education, financing, luck, parentage, etc, etc, etc

    But they themselves had to take those ingredients and still make it work....many can't, or won't even try

    So stop looking down on those that are successful....they make our economy hum....they employ people, and they inspire others to success

    All really good things....
    “Most of the shadows of this life are caused by standing in one's own sunshine.”

    Ralph Waldo Emerson

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