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Thread: The fundamental problem with conservatives

  1. #141
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    Re: The fundamental problem with conservatives

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilly View Post
    Sure some people will fail to grasp the opportunities afforded to them, but I don't see why that means we shouldn't strive to lift the floor of opportunity as high as we can for everyone. If we ensure all our Paula's have the same access to opportunity as our Richards then how is that a bad thing?
    I'll tell you what. I'll strive to raise the opportunity floor, just don't expect my tax dollars to help, since I think the opportunities in this country are almost limitless. As for helping people see opportunities and take advantage of them, I'm all in. But it would be a mistake to diminish the efforts of those who triumphed over adversity, used their skills to overcome and became successful. I am concluding that there is a little resentment on your part of successful people in general, because you believe they didn't achieve their success fairly. You look at Donald Trump and think, well sure, he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, he had rich parents or whatever. I think you would find most successful people worked hard, took advantage of one of the limitless opportunities in this country and became successful and you find that very hard to accept. And I'm not talking about millionaires. I'm talking about the hard working people in this country who went out, found a job and worked their way up from the bottom. Jobs are the opportunity and Donald Trump is determined to increase those opportunities. How's that for raising the floor of opportunity? Or were thinking more along the lines of a government handout? That's usually the socialist's answer. Under Obama, on the other hand, the labor participation rate dropped every year of his presidency. He was so concerned about jobs for illegal aliens coming into this country, he killed opportunities for Americans. If you really care about opportunities for Americans, you would be doing everything you could to support Donald Trump and help make America great again.

  2. #142
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    Re: The fundamental problem with conservatives

    Quote Originally Posted by Cvir View Post
    I'll tell you what. I'll strive to raise the opportunity floor, just don't expect my tax dollars to help, since I think the opportunities in this country are almost limitless. As for helping people see opportunities and take advantage of them, I'm all in. But it would be a mistake to diminish the efforts of those who triumphed over adversity, used their skills to overcome and became successful. I am concluding that there is a little resentment on your part of successful people in general, because you believe they didn't achieve their success fairly. You look at Donald Trump and think, well sure, he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, he had rich parents or whatever. I think you would find most successful people worked hard, took advantage of one of the limitless opportunities in this country and became successful and you find that very hard to accept. And I'm not talking about millionaires. I'm talking about the hard working people in this country who went out, found a job and worked their way up from the bottom. Jobs are the opportunity and Donald Trump is determined to increase those opportunities. How's that for raising the floor of opportunity? Or were thinking more along the lines of a government handout? That's usually the socialist's answer. Under Obama, on the other hand, the labor participation rate dropped every year of his presidency. He was so concerned about jobs for illegal aliens coming into this country, he killed opportunities for Americans. If you really care about opportunities for Americans, you would be doing everything you could to support Donald Trump and help make America great again.
    Lol how about I'll tell you what. How about you don't 'assume' what I do or 'conclude' how I feel about people so that when you construct your counter argument you don't flail wildly off base. I already addressed earlier in this thread how I feel that plenty of successful people do work hard and deserve all the success they get, and just because I want to afford equal opportunities to those who weren't lucky enough to be born with a silver spoon in their mouth doesn't delegitimize the work and sweat of those who were.
    "Education is the only thing you can do that will change society. Everything else is just a band-aid." - Jacqueline de Chollet
    "Democracy cannot succeed unless those who express their choice are prepared to choose wisely. The real safeguard of democracy, therefore, is education" - FDR

  3. #143
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    Re: The fundamental problem with conservatives

    Quote Originally Posted by Koke View Post
    Are these by chance the same white Christian men that first immigrated to America and successfully created the most free and prosperous civilization of all time?

    Or did you just write a block of text about inequality to just then finish it with a broad generalization and kick an entire demographic in the teeth.
    Yeah, that was after the Salem witch trials and slavery.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

  4. #144
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    Re: The fundamental problem with conservatives

    Quote Originally Posted by MrWonka View Post
    It seems like I'm finding that so many of the disagreements that we have in the United States today break down along the same exact lines. Conservatives fail to grasp the incredibly enormous distinction between knocking someone off their high horse, and stomping them into the ground. The difference between taking someone down a peg, and kicking them when they are already on the ground. One is not only acceptably, but often times very necessary, the other is absolutely abhorrent. What at a cursory glance may seem like the same actions, tactics, or behaviors are judged radically differently depending on who is using them against who.

    That doesn't mean it's a double standard it means that when you are in a position of power over someone you cannot blame them for using whatever means are at their disposal to defend themselves, but when you are the one who is dominating another person in every conceivable way to use cheap shots in order to further your dominance is completely out of line.

    Conservatives simply cannot grasp this reality. In their minds letting their opponents stand up is equivalent to being knocked down themselves. Worse yet their opponent isn't even trying to fight them, it simply wants to stand up. They assume that if their opponent gets to equal footing with them then they will start doing the same things to them that they have been doing to their opponent for decades.

    White Christian Men in our society have grown so accustom to their position of dominance that anything less than dominance over others is seen as an injury to them. How does one overcome this mental block and get through to these people?
    Your OP has no thesis and it's difficult to find what your message is.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

  5. #145
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    Re: The fundamental problem with conservatives

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilly View Post
    Lol how about I'll tell you what. How about you don't 'assume' what I do or 'conclude' how I feel about people so that when you construct your counter argument you don't flail wildly off base. I already addressed earlier in this thread how I feel that plenty of successful people do work hard and deserve all the success they get, and just because I want to afford equal opportunities to those who weren't lucky enough to be born with a silver spoon in their mouth doesn't delegitimize the work and sweat of those who were.
    That's nice. Since you don't seem to have any counter points, I will assume you are in pretty much agreement with me. Thanks for the conversation, Bye

  6. #146
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    Re: The fundamental problem with conservatives

    Quote Originally Posted by Cvir View Post
    That's nice. Since you don't seem to have any counter points, I will assume you are in pretty much agreement with me. Thanks for the conversation, Bye
    Again with the dumb assumptions
    "Education is the only thing you can do that will change society. Everything else is just a band-aid." - Jacqueline de Chollet
    "Democracy cannot succeed unless those who express their choice are prepared to choose wisely. The real safeguard of democracy, therefore, is education" - FDR

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    Re: The fundamental problem with conservatives

    There are two elements to one side of the discussion "raising the floor of opportunity" and "fairness". Both are great concepts - both need clarification.

    For example, if two people are doing the same job with the same efficiency, it would be fair to pay both the same. But, suppose of two employees one has worked hard and brings a greater skill set to the table. If there were to be a disparity in their pay, would that not be fair.

    Education - if education is offered but some students are not interested and do not avail themselves of the opportunities offered there will again be a disparity of outcome. Is there unfairness in this?

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