• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Why I am afraid of Trump

C

CriticalThought

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 11, 2009
Messages
19,657
Reaction score
8,454
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
There is a thread posted by a person who chose to take a partisan view on opposition to Trump. He suggested that Trump will cut entitlements and welfare used by supporters of the liberals and progressives.

I personally have a fear of Trump because of what he represents for the country as a whole.

… Trump is trying to convey is that there is wild disorder, because of American citizens of African-American descent, and immigrants … The chief authoritarian values are law and order. In Trump’s value system, nonwhites and non-Christians are the chief threats to law and order. Trump knows that reality does not call for a value-system like his; violent crime is at almost historic lows in the United States. Trump is thundering about a crime wave of historic proportions, because he is an authoritarian using his speech to define a simple reality that legitimates his value system, leading voters to adopt it …
Click to expand...

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/05/...donald-trumps-authoritarian-reality.html?_r=1

...we can expect Trump supporters to vigorously defend him every step of the way, no matter how far he goes … we should look for attacks on religious minorities and immigrants; scapegoating the media; attacks against “un-American” behavior; use of the words “traitor” and “cancer” to characterize dissenters; and then large-scale rallies by Trump loyalists, followed by populist “referendums” to circumvent Congress … Whatever you might be thinking … it can absolutely happen here …
Click to expand...

Autocratic for the people: As Donald Trump?s populist wave recedes, an authoritarian regime in the making is revealed - Salon.com

I questioned this kind of reasoning as cartoonish but then I read what has been posted here by those who generally support Trump and you see it. They are living in a different reality and it is one that has been created by Trump and the media around him.

The economy is tanking, violence is worse than it has ever been, Obamacare is in a death spiral, we are under constant threat of Islamic terrorists, our borders are surging with criminal immigrants, political correctness has run amok to the point that Christian values are under assault and it is all the fault of the "not real" Americans who push a corrupt leftist agenda.

This isn't reality and most of it is easily demonstrated to be false with facts but it is the narrative that many people seem to want to believe and they want someone to fix it. Trump is the man, and his supporters will hold to him with unwavering conviction.They are the tool Trump will use to get his way. He will use them to further polarize the nation and they will be all too happy to comply and some will look to fellow Americans with contempt and disgust that makes what we see today look like a hippy festival. And that is where someone, either from the left or right, will step in and what is left of our democracy will die with a quiet whimper.

That is why I fear Trump.
 
I'm waiting to see what he actually DOES once in office before I make any sort of final judgment.


Everything up to now is just talk, and talk is just hot air moving around. Not all of it Trump's by any means.
 
CriticalThought said:
There is a thread posted by a person who chose to take a partisan view on opposition to Trump. He suggested that Trump will cut entitlements and welfare used by supporters of the liberals and progressives.

I personally have a fear of Trump because of what he represents for the country as a whole.
Click to expand...

I also fear him for what he represents for America as a whole. He and his supporters represent a wave of anti-science zealots who believe they can make up their own facts and reality as they go along and that ignorance is more honorable than knowledge. What bothers me the most about him is that he spews objective lies every single time he opens his mouth. He is the most dishonest politician we've seen in decades and he's already abandoned most of the promises he made to gullible people on the campaign trail.

Goshin said:
I'm waiting to see what he actually DOES once in office before I make any sort of final judgment.
Everything up to now is just talk, and talk is just hot air moving around. Not all of it Trump's by any means.
Click to expand...

Actually, it was "all talk" until he started nominating people for positions in his administration. He's expressing his views through his picks and it appears to be heavily anti-science and very pro-Goldman Sachs and Exxon. This being the guy who spent most of his campaign criticizing other politicians for being involved with Goldman Sachs. It is very clear from his picks that he's going to a president for corporate America and not middle class America.
 
CriticalThought said:
There is a thread posted by a person who chose to take a partisan view on opposition to Trump. He suggested that Trump will cut entitlements and welfare used by supporters of the liberals and progressives.

I personally have a fear of Trump because of what he represents for the country as a whole.

Trump is trying to convey is that there is wild disorder, because of American citizens of African-American descent, and immigrants … The chief authoritarian values are law and order. In Trump’s value system, nonwhites and non-Christians are the chief threats to law and order. Trump knows that reality does not call for a value-system like his; violent crime is at almost historic lows in the United States. Trump is thundering about a crime wave of historic proportions, because he is an authoritarian using his speech to define a simple reality that legitimates his value system, leading voters to adopt it …
Click to expand...

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/05/...donald-trumps-authoritarian-reality.html?_r=1

...we can expect Trump supporters to vigorously defend him every step of the way, no matter how far he goes … we should look for attacks on religious minorities and immigrants; scapegoating the media; attacks against “un-American” behavior; use of the words “traitor” and “cancer” to characterize dissenters; and then large-scale rallies by Trump loyalists, followed by populist “referendums” to circumvent Congress … Whatever you might be thinking … it can absolutely happen here …
Click to expand...

Autocratic for the people: As Donald Trump?s populist wave recedes, an authoritarian regime in the making is revealed - Salon.com

I questioned this kind of reasoning as cartoonish but then I read what has been posted here by those who generally support Trump and you see it. They are living in a different reality and it is one that has been created by Trump and the media around him.

The economy is tanking, violence is worse than it has ever been, Obamacare is in a death spiral, we are under constant threat of Islamic terrorists, our borders are surging with criminal immigrants, political correctness has run amok to the point that Christian values are under assault and it is all the fault of the "not real" Americans who push a corrupt leftist agenda.

This isn't reality and most of it is easily demonstrated to be false with facts but it is the narrative that many people seem to want to believe and they want someone to fix it. Trump is the man, and his supporters will hold to him with unwavering conviction.They are the tool Trump will use to get his way. He will use them to further polarize the nation and they will be all too happy to comply and some will look to fellow Americans with contempt and disgust that makes what we see today look like a hippy festival. And that is where someone, either from the left or right, will step in and what is left of our democracy will die with a quiet whimper.

That is why I fear Trump.
Click to expand...

Your first quote is from an opinion piece in the NY Times. People are entitled to opinions, that does not make them sound, valid, or factual...just one person's opinion.

Where that writer saw Trump as thinking "non-whites and non-Christians are the chief threats to law and order" and Trump is some kind of authoritarian, it is only because he (like the OP) has bought into the extreme SJW "racist, misogynist, xenophobe, etc." memes repeated over and over during the campaign.

Just a lot of exaggeration and misrepresentation with little factual basis, combined with the habit of taking everything Trump stated literally.

In fact, they should be viewing his positions as that clearly leftist ideologue Piers Morgan stated: "not literally, not as a political ideologue but as a businessman. Look upon his statements as a negotiating tactic and try to do business with him as any business person would."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZGrL7MiUYs&list=WL&index=10 (start at 3:06 on the video).

As for the second quote from that "non-biased source" Salon? :roll:

I find that extremely funny in light of the fact that those who oppose Trump are attacking him every step of the way. Using every opportunity to denigrate, obfuscate, insinuate, make fun of, and demonize him on the basis of what? That he isn't the kind of person they can control or manipulate?

I really think some people should look to their own extremist methodologies in dealing with this situation. They might see more of what they fear in themselves rather than projecting it onto others. :coffeepap:
 
Last edited:
Things could go pretty bad but what choice did we have with the creeps and incompetents the parties offered us up this round, with the D's moving Heaven and Earth to prevent there being a choice from them.

Only the outsider Trump was willing to see, knew what was going on.

Now we see how it goes, I am cautiously optimistic.

BUCKLE UP! VELOCITY AHEAD!

4.gif
 
Last edited:
CriticalThought said:
There is a thread posted by a person who chose to take a partisan view on opposition to Trump. He suggested that Trump will cut entitlements and welfare used by supporters of the liberals and progressives.

I personally have a fear of Trump because of what he represents for the country as a whole.



https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/05/...donald-trumps-authoritarian-reality.html?_r=1



Autocratic for the people: As Donald Trump?s populist wave recedes, an authoritarian regime in the making is revealed - Salon.com

I questioned this kind of reasoning as cartoonish but then I read what has been posted here by those who generally support Trump and you see it. They are living in a different reality and it is one that has been created by Trump and the media around him.

The economy is tanking, violence is worse than it has ever been, Obamacare is in a death spiral, we are under constant threat of Islamic terrorists, our borders are surging with criminal immigrants, political correctness has run amok to the point that Christian values are under assault and it is all the fault of the "not real" Americans who push a corrupt leftist agenda.

This isn't reality and most of it is easily demonstrated to be false with facts but it is the narrative that many people seem to want to believe and they want someone to fix it. Trump is the man, and his supporters will hold to him with unwavering conviction.They are the tool Trump will use to get his way. He will use them to further polarize the nation and they will be all too happy to comply and some will look to fellow Americans with contempt and disgust that makes what we see today look like a hippy festival. And that is where someone, either from the left or right, will step in and what is left of our democracy will die with a quiet whimper.

That is why I fear Trump.
Click to expand...

Here's the problem. If people think that non-whites and non-Christians are viewed as a threat by Trump then why dinldnt they vote against him? If the same minorities that supported Obama has supported Hillary, she would be president. Hillary pretty much ran on a platform of continuing Obama's policies so that wasn't the issue. So either they hated Hillary more than they feared Trump in which case the whole argument is invalid. Or, that they refused to vote for Hillary based on her skin color, in wh8ch case you should absolutely fear what the election of Trump represents, that the minorities feel so disenfranchised that they will never assimilate into American culture.
 
Captain Adverse said:
Your first quote is from an opinion piece in the NY Times. People are entitled to opinions, that does not make them sound, valid, or factual...just one person's opinion.
Where that writer saw Trump as thinking "non-whites and non-Christians are the chief threats to law and order" and Trump is some kind of authoritarian, it is only because he (like the OP) has bought into the extreme SJW "racist, misogynist, xenophobe, etc." memes repeated over and over during the campaign with little to no factual basis.
Just a lot of exaggeration and misrepresentation with little factual basis, combined with the habit of taking everything Trump stated literally.
As for the second quote? I find that extremely funny in light of the fact that those who oppose Trump are attacking him every step of the way. Using every opportunity to denigrate, obfuscate, make fun of, and demonize him on the basis of what? That he isn't the kind of person they can control or manipulate?
I really think some people should look to their own extremist methodologies in dealing with this situation. They might see more of what they fear in themselves rather than projecting it on others. :coffeepap:
Click to expand...

Have you ever considered that millions of Americans aren't criticizing him for partisanship but rather because half of the things he says are objectively false and his campaign was built around blaming immigrants and foreigners for all of our problems? I could at least respect him if he had firm beliefs and attempted to speak the truth, but he's taken almost every position on every issue at some point and actively lies as a political tactic. I didn't agree with Bush but I at least respected him as a person and as the president. Donald hasn't done anything to deserve that respect.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Have you ever considered that millions of Americans aren't criticizing him for partisanship but rather because half of the things he says are objectively false and his campaign was built around blaming immigrants and foreigners for all of our problems? I could at least respect him if he had firm beliefs and attempted to speak the truth, but he's taken almost every position on every issue at some point and actively lies as a political tactic. I didn't agree with Bush but I at least respected him as a person and as the president. Donald hasn't done anything to deserve that respect.
Click to expand...

I followed the campaign quite thoroughly, as you should well know from my posts in this Forum. That includes fact-checking the video evidence used to support all those memes. I found the allegations of racism, misogyny, xenophobia, etc., less than truthful, which promulgated my support for his election.

Did you bother to LOOK at the video cited before responding? A panel of British Leftist's all. :doh

They seem to have a better grasp of Trump than our home-grown variety do. :yes:
 
Last edited:
Captain Adverse said:
Did you bother to LOOK at the video cited before responding? A panel of British Leftist's all. :doh

They seem to have a better grasp of Trump than our home-grown variety do. :yes:
Click to expand...

I'm not here to talk about British opinions of Trump I'm here to talk about the actual topic of the thread. If you can't respond to what I actually wrote I don't know why you responded at all.

No, we didn't just fish the claim that he demonizes immigrants out of thin air as an SJW technique, it was one of his core campaign tenets. He actively and intentionally lies every chance he gets and you sit there and pretend we don't have any legitimate reasons to criticize him. My disgust for Trump goes far beyond partisanship because he completely lacks any shred of integrity.

Response to EDIT:
Captain Adverse said:
I followed the campaign quite thoroughly, as you should well know from my posts in this Forum. That includes fact-checking the video evidence used to support all those memes. I found the allegations of racism, misogyny, xenophobia, etc., less than truthful, which promulgated my support for his election.
Click to expand...

I for one don't base my vote on "I think claims by others about him are false", I base it on the candidate's integrity and issues. Trump has no integrity and does not value speaking the truth. I can respect different political views, I can't respect outright dishonesty. It's laughable to pretend he didn't spend most of his campaign talking about Mexicans either coming here to steal our jobs or jobs going to Mexico. Not once did he talk about jobs lost to automation, because things like that don't rile up the base like blaming a minority group for all of our problems.
 
Last edited:
RabidAlpaca said:
I'm not here to talk about British opinions of Trump I'm here to talk about the actual topic of the thread. If you can't respond to what I actually wrote I don't know why you responded at all.

No, we didn't just fish the claim that he demonizes immigrants out of thin air as an SJW technique, it was one of his core campaign tenets. He actively and intentionally lies every chance he gets and you sit there and pretend we don't have any legitimate reasons to criticize him. My disgust for Trump goes far beyond partisanship because he completely lacks any shred of integrity.
Click to expand...
Guys like that tend to fail with their Kids.

Trump was spectacular.

Your understanding may be flawed.
 
"we should look for attacks on religious minorities and immigrants"

And hey...when they dont materialize, why you can just make that **** up.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
I'm not here to talk about British opinions of Trump I'm here to talk about the actual topic of the thread. If you can't respond to what I actually wrote I don't know why you responded at all.

No, we didn't just fish the claim that he demonizes immigrants out of thin air as an SJW technique, it was one of his core campaign tenets. He actively and intentionally lies every chance he gets and you sit there and pretend we don't have any legitimate reasons to criticize him. My disgust for Trump goes far beyond partisanship because he completely lacks any shred of integrity.
Click to expand...

He did not demonize immigrants. He opposes allowing refugee migrations. Any examination of European social conflicts since they opened the doors to such mass migrations shows the inherent wisdom in opposing it here.

As for his comments on Mexican's, the basic truth is that unless they cross the border as either a legal immigrant, legal visa, or work permit for seasonal work with the intent to go back on off seasons, they ARE acting illegally. It is also true that a proportion do go on to commit other actual crimes here, often despite repeated deportations.

Nor IMHO does he intentionally lie repeatedly. He's a salesman and he exaggerates. He makes sales pitches. He also simply speaks off the cuff based on sometimes faulty knowledge or understanding. He is not a political ideologue (as ably explained in that video I included.)

RabidAlpaca said:
Response to EDIT:

I for one don't base my vote on "I think claims by others about him are false", I base it on the candidate's integrity and issues. Trump has no integrity and does not value speaking the truth. I can respect different political views, I can't respect outright dishonesty. It's laughable to pretend he didn't spend most of his campaign talking about Mexicans either coming here to steal our jobs or jobs going to Mexico. Not once did he talk about jobs lost to automation, because things like that don't rile up the base like blaming a minority group for all of our problems.
Click to expand...

Nor did I. :no:

I originally thought, and still believe to this day, that he joined the campaign with no real expectation of ever winning the nomination, much less being elected President. It was just a publicity stunt seeking national name recognition in pursuit of future business goals.

As a result, I believe I had a more open mind than some here when I started researching all the source materials on which the demonizing meme's were based.

Finding that almost all of these sources showed his opponents were demonstrating a clear and intentional misrepresentation of the facts; that the memes were mainly exaggerated personal-offense reactions typical of the faux-outrage of the SJW Alt-Left; That people I despise like the Koch brothers were actively undermining his campaign; that's when I started paying more attention to him.

In fact, I think this same exaggerated outrage carried to extremes, along with the Republican betrayals, the MSM negative reporting, and Hillary's arrogance was not only the seed of my support...but the root of his national support leading to his "surprise" election. Do you not remember my posts talking about how popular he was at all those rallies and how this showed he had more national support than any of those groups of arrogant detractors gave him credit for?

I voted for him because I support the 2A and hoped he'd appoint Justices who did to the SCOTUS. That I supported his opposition to opening the doors to migrants and illegal immigrants. His goals to improve our economy. My opposition to both the Same S**t, Different Day (SSDD) candidacy of Hillary Clinton, and to upset the Conservative elitists in the Republican party who opposed his growing success because they knew they could not control him.

Now I will grant you he is not perfect. That I could very well have voted for a different candidate had a good one been running. However, he IS the President-Elect and soon to be President. Therefore, I prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt and wait to see how things progress. If he screws something up I will call him on it here. If he does something good I will support him, in either case like any other President I have lived under. :coffeepap:
 
Last edited:
Captain Adverse said:
He did not demonize immigrants. He opposes allowing refugee migrations. Any examination of European social conflicts since they opened the doors to such mass migrations shows the inherent wisdom in opposing it here.

As for his comments on Mexican's, the basic truth is that unless they cross the border as either a legal immigrant, legal visa, or work permit for seasonal work with the intent to go back on off seasons, they ARE acting illegally. It is also true that a proportion do go on to commit other actual crimes here, often despite repeated deportations.

Nor IMHO does he intentionally lie repeatedly. He's a salesman and he exaggerates. He makes sales pitches. He also simply speaks off the cuff based on sometimes faulty knowledge or understanding. He is not a political ideologue (as ably explained in that video I included.)



Nor did I. :no:

I originally thought, and still believe to this day, that he joined the campaign with no real expectation of ever winning the nomination, much less being elected President. It was just a publicity stunt seeking national name recognition in pursuit of future business goals.

As a result, I believe I had a more open mind than some here when I started researching all the source materials on which the demonizing meme's were based.

Finding that almost all of these sources showed his opponents were demonstrating a clear and intentional misrepresentation of the facts; that the memes were mainly exaggerated personal-offense reactions typical of the faux-outrage of the SJW Alt-Left; That people I despise like the Koch brothers were actively undermining his campaign; that's when I started paying more attention to him.

In fact, I think this same exaggerated outrage carried to extremes, along with the Republican betrayals, the MSM negative reporting, and Hillary's arrogance was not only the seed of my support...but the root of his national support leading to his "surprise" election. Do you not remember my posts talking about how popular he was at all those rallies and how this showed he had more national support than any of those groups of arrogant detractors gave him credit for?

I voted for him because I support the 2A and hoped he'd appoint Justices who did to the SCOTUS. That I supported his opposition to opening the doors to migrants and illegal immigrants. His goals to improve our economy. My opposition to both the Same S**t, Different Day (SSDD) candidacy of Hillary Clinton, and to upset the Conservative elitists in the Republican party who opposed his growing success because they knew they could not control him.

Now I will grant you he is not perfect. That I could very well have voted for a different candidate had a good one been running. However, he IS the President-Elect and soon to be President. Therefore, I prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt and wait to see how things progress. If he screws something up I will call him on it here. If he does something good I will support him, in either case like any other President I have lived under. :coffeepap:
Click to expand...

They will never listen, they are past the point of civil discourse with anything related Trump.

Both sides have become so polarised that it is impossible to look at anything objectively.

They have legitimate reasons to dislike him but the MSM has manipulated them to the point of lunacy (and I mean this literally, example: man set himself on fire).

I couldn't vote for him personally because I thought he was too much of a loose cannon and would draw us into an unnecessary war (example:China), and there were some policies (All Muslim Ban) and tactics (fear mongering) that I didn't like. Yet, I find myself continuously having to defend him due to the irrational state these people are in.
 
Captain Adverse said:
He did not demonize immigrants. He opposes allowing refugee migrations. Any examination of European social conflicts since they opened the doors to such mass migrations shows the inherent wisdom in opposing it here.

As for his comments on Mexican's, the basic truth is that unless they cross the border as either a legal immigrant, legal visa, or work permit for seasonal work with the intent to go back on off seasons, they ARE acting illegally. It is also true that a proportion do go on to commit other actual crimes here, often despite repeated deportations.

Nor IMHO does he intentionally lie repeatedly. He's a salesman and he exaggerates. He makes sales pitches. He also simply speaks off the cuff based on sometimes faulty knowledge or understanding. He is not a political ideologue (as ably explained in that video I included.)



Nor did I. :no:

I originally thought, and still believe to this day, that he joined the campaign with no real expectation of ever winning the nomination, much less being elected President. It was just a publicity stunt seeking national name recognition in pursuit of future business goals.

As a result, I believe I had a more open mind than some here when I started researching all the source materials on which the demonizing meme's were based.

Finding that almost all of these sources showed his opponents were demonstrating a clear and intentional misrepresentation of the facts; that the memes were mainly exaggerated personal-offense reactions typical of the faux-outrage of the SJW Alt-Left; That people I despise like the Koch brothers were actively undermining his campaign; that's when I started paying more attention to him.

In fact, I think this same exaggerated outrage carried to extremes, along with the Republican betrayals, the MSM negative reporting, and Hillary's arrogance was not only the seed of my support...but the root of his national support leading to his "surprise" election. Do you not remember my posts talking about how popular he was at all those rallies and how this showed he had more national support than any of those groups of arrogant detractors gave him credit for?

I voted for him because I support the 2A and hoped he'd appoint Justices who did to the SCOTUS. That I supported his opposition to opening the doors to migrants and illegal immigrants. His goals to improve our economy. My opposition to both the Same S**t, Different Day (SSDD) candidacy of Hillary Clinton, and to upset the Conservative elitists in the Republican party who opposed his growing success because they knew they could not control him.

Now I will grant you he is not perfect. That I could very well have voted for a different candidate had a good one been running. However, he IS the President-Elect and soon to be President. Therefore, I prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt and wait to see how things progress. If he screws something up I will call him on it here. If he does something good I will support him, in either case like any other President I have lived under. :coffeepap:
Click to expand...
So what you are saying is that Trump is bargaining with the American people like a greedy dishonest lie in your face used car salesman? That right there is enough reason to demonize Trump. I mean Trump just tells people what they want to here to whoever is in the room at the time. New room and nothing he said in the old room was anything more than fluff to gain attention. One day Trump is telling us that he knows things that other people dont know about the hacks. ANd then asserts that he is going to have a big reveal by a certain day, then nothing. Then he finally admits (after someone held his hand) that the Russians indeed did do the hacking.

And you voted for this buffoon? And now you say that if he fails you will just bitch about it here. Great that sure will erase the fact that you voted for a person woefully unqualified to be President of the United States of America. But I dount that you will really say anything against trump. I havent heard you say anything against President-elect trump, so do you think he is doing a good job as President-elect? See thats where that parroted excuse about waiting until he takes office line falters, Trump is already in a position that can legitimately be criticized. This effort silence criticism of President-elect Trump certainly never was honored with any other President-elect. But for some strange reason Trump supporters assert that Americans cannot be critical of a president-elect.



Do you normally take meme's serious?
 
RabidAlpaca said:
I'm not here to talk about British opinions of Trump I'm here to talk about the actual topic of the thread. If you can't respond to what I actually wrote I don't know why you responded at all.

No, we didn't just fish the claim that he demonizes immigrants out of thin air as an SJW technique, it was one of his core campaign tenets. He actively and intentionally lies every chance he gets and you sit there and pretend we don't have any legitimate reasons to criticize him. My disgust for Trump goes far beyond partisanship because he completely lacks any shred of integrity.

Response to EDIT:


I for one don't base my vote on "I think claims by others about him are false", I base it on the candidate's integrity and issues. Trump has no integrity and does not value speaking the truth. I can respect different political views, I can't respect outright dishonesty. It's laughable to pretend he didn't spend most of his campaign talking about Mexicans either coming here to steal our jobs or jobs going to Mexico. Not once did he talk about jobs lost to automation, because things like that don't rile up the base like blaming a minority group for all of our problems.
Click to expand...

And yet, you most likely voted for Hillary. You know, the one who was going to give away all the free stuff and not ad a dime to the debt? :roll: I think what you meant was, you cannot respect outright dishonesty.....unless it comes from the mouth of a lib politician. :roll: :roll:
 
Captain Adverse said:
He did not demonize immigrants. He opposes allowing refugee migrations. Any examination of European social conflicts since they opened the doors to such mass migrations shows the inherent wisdom in opposing it here.

As for his comments on Mexican's, the basic truth is that unless they cross the border as either a legal immigrant, legal visa, or work permit for seasonal work with the intent to go back on off seasons, they ARE acting illegally. It is also true that a proportion do go on to commit other actual crimes here, often despite repeated deportations.
Click to expand...

If he were just opposed to illegal immigration that would be understandable. He however uses them as a scapegoat for all of our social and economic problems. Security issues? Muslims. Can't find a job? It's because Mexicans are hopping the border to steal your job and all the rest of the jobs are moving to Mexico. This wasn't a rational call for cracking down on illegal immigration, it was absolutely demonizing them. Blaming a minority group(s) for all of our problems is not a new political tactic.

Captain Adverse said:
Nor IMHO does he intentionally lie repeatedly. He's a salesman and he exaggerates. He makes sales pitches. He also simply speaks off the cuff based on sometimes faulty knowledge or understanding. He is not a political ideologue (as ably explained in that video I included.)

Nor did I. :no:

I originally thought, and still believe to this day, that he joined the campaign with no real expectation of ever winning the nomination, much less being elected President. It was just a publicity stunt seeking national name recognition in pursuit of future business goals.

As a result, I believe I had a more open mind than some here when I started researching all the source materials on which the demonizing meme's were based.

Finding that almost all of these sources showed his opponents were demonstrating a clear and intentional misrepresentation of the facts; that the memes were mainly exaggerated personal-offense reactions typical of the faux-outrage of the SJW Alt-Left; That people I despise like the Koch brothers were actively undermining his campaign; that's when I started paying more attention to him.

In fact, I think this same exaggerated outrage carried to extremes, along with the Republican betrayals, the MSM negative reporting, and Hillary's arrogance was not only the seed of my support...but the root of his national support leading to his "surprise" election. Do you not remember my posts talking about how popular he was at all those rallies and how this showed he had more national support than any of those groups of arrogant detractors gave him credit for?

I voted for him because I support the 2A and hoped he'd appoint Justices who did to the SCOTUS. That I supported his opposition to opening the doors to migrants and illegal immigrants. His goals to improve our economy. My opposition to both the Same S**t, Different Day (SSDD) candidacy of Hillary Clinton, and to upset the Conservative elitists in the Republican party who opposed his growing success because they knew they could not control him.

Now I will grant you he is not perfect. That I could very well have voted for a different candidate had a good one been running. However, he IS the President-Elect and soon to be President. Therefore, I prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt and wait to see how things progress. If he screws something up I will call him on it here. If he does something good I will support him, in either case like any other President I have lived under. :coffeepap:
Click to expand...

Exaggerating and speaking off the cuff based on faulty knowledge and understanding IS lying. As president every word he says really matters, and he simply can't control his mouth. He will speak of things as if they're facts when he pulled them directly out of his ass. That is lying by any definition of the term, and he does it intentionally. If he valued the truth he would say he doesn't know or he'll look into it instead of just improvising.

It's like I said, I can respect someone who simply has different political opinions, I can't respect someone who blatantly lies and misleads every time he opens his mouth and can't stop bragging about how rich he is when he was born astronomically rich and simply took over the family business. Not a single iota of integrity or modesty.
 
Last edited:
CriticalThought said:
That is why I fear Trump.
Click to expand...

I would like to applaud your honesty that you are indeed afraid of Trump. I posted a thread here the other day suggesting that lefties are afraid of Trump, and the lefties here all piled on to deny my allegation of what is so obvious.

Lefties do fear Trump, and what you have posted is a suggestion of why they fear Trump. Lefties fear Trump because they really don't know much about him, other than what they have been told about him by the lefty media. Lefties know what the msm WANTS them to know about Trump, and they DO NOT know what the MSM has omitted about him. The MSM hates Trump, and they represent a conflict of interest since they are also the only window that lefties use to see Trump through. I would be afraid of him too, if my only knowledge of Trump was coming from his worst enemy.
 
CriticalThought said:
There is a thread posted by a person who chose to take a partisan view on opposition to Trump. He suggested that Trump will cut entitlements and welfare used by supporters of the liberals and progressives.

I personally have a fear of Trump because of what he represents for the country as a whole.



https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/05/...donald-trumps-authoritarian-reality.html?_r=1



Autocratic for the people: As Donald Trump?s populist wave recedes, an authoritarian regime in the making is revealed - Salon.com

I questioned this kind of reasoning as cartoonish but then I read what has been posted here by those who generally support Trump and you see it. They are living in a different reality and it is one that has been created by Trump and the media around him.

The economy is tanking, violence is worse than it has ever been, Obamacare is in a death spiral, we are under constant threat of Islamic terrorists, our borders are surging with criminal immigrants, political correctness has run amok to the point that Christian values are under assault and it is all the fault of the "not real" Americans who push a corrupt leftist agenda.

This isn't reality and most of it is easily demonstrated to be false with facts but it is the narrative that many people seem to want to believe and they want someone to fix it. Trump is the man, and his supporters will hold to him with unwavering conviction.They are the tool Trump will use to get his way. He will use them to further polarize the nation and they will be all too happy to comply and some will look to fellow Americans with contempt and disgust that makes what we see today look like a hippy festival. And that is where someone, either from the left or right, will step in and what is left of our democracy will die with a quiet whimper.

That is why I fear Trump.
Click to expand...

The truth on the other side of the story is that we "Trump supporters" do see the world differently than non Trump supporters. But, that doesn't mean we are wrong. And I for one, think that it is a shame you think we live in a different reality, unless that reality is one of common sense, hard work, strong military, less handouts, less government, balanced budgets, trust in our police and fear of our laws, better education and choice in education, keeping manufacturing and other jobs from leaving our country, securing our borders and cleaning up our inner cities which are plagued with crime.

We aren't living our lives watching the news for goodness sakes. We are living our lives by working and raising our kids, growing businesses, paying our taxes and living up to the expectations our forefathers set down for us.

We see the world in a different manner maybe than you, because we are tired of all the takers. We are tired of all those who thinks that the government (aka me and other tax payers) owe them something. Sorry to all the snowflakes in the world - but we DO NOT owe you anything. It is time - Trump Time - to say look, you make of your life what you make of it. It is NO ONE else's fault if you do not succeed. It is not my fault if you can't work and pay for health care. It isn't my fault if you are homeless. It isn't my fault if you can't afford to go to college or don't make that a priority or just aren't smart enough to go.

That's what it means when people say "grow up." So, if that side of Trump and this next four or eight years scares you, or scares anyone, then in my humble opinion it is because they are afraid to grow up and take responsibility for their own destiny.

If that sounds CARTOONISH or a different reality then I can live with that.
 
Crovax said:
Here's the problem. If people think that non-whites and non-Christians are viewed as a threat by Trump then why dinldnt they vote against him? If the same minorities that supported Obama has supported Hillary, she would be president. Hillary pretty much ran on a platform of continuing Obama's policies so that wasn't the issue. So either they hated Hillary more than they feared Trump in which case the whole argument is invalid. Or, that they refused to vote for Hillary based on her skin color, in wh8ch case you should absolutely fear what the election of Trump represents, that the minorities feel so disenfranchised that they will never assimilate into American culture.
Click to expand...

I can offer two explanations...

1) Low voter turn out for African Americans and the 2016 election was the second lowest voter turn out in US Presidential elections history. Typically the higher voter turn out the better for Democrats.
U.S. Election: African-American Voter Turnout 'Low' In Key States


2) Regarding local state houses and house of representatives, Gerrymandering....
"2010 is not just any election year: it is crucial given that this class of governors will be in charge as their states draw Congressional and state legislative districts as part of the reapportionment process after the next census. And given historical trends in midterm elections and the lopsided majority Democrats enjoy in Congress, the possibility that Republicans could make gains in House races next year could give the party a psychological boost at the halfway point of Mr. Obama’s term."
'''Gerrymandering On Steroids''': How Republicans Stacked The Nation'''s Statehouses | Here & Now

Another article here (I mean they're articles over the place....)

Republicans rigged the House through gerrymandering. Democrats can fight back at the ballot box

Next time, I believe, the districts can be drawn is 2031....Not looking for Democrats
 
You worry too much. As Obama has said
“Without some common baseline of facts; without a willingness to admit new information, and concede that your opponent is making a fair point, and that science and reason matter, we’ll keep talking past each other, making common ground and compromise impossible.” It represents the fear of change; the fear of people who look or speak or pray differently; a contempt for the rule of law that holds leaders accountable; an intolerance of dissent and free thought.
Click to expand...

Obama Rallies the Faithful and Rejects Fear - The Daily Beast

Obama has some of those Teflon qualities that Reagan had. But most of us understand that the world is not as rosy today as you think. In most areas of policy, we have gone down. I guess that it is subjective but I think that you are being fearful while you perhaps think that the majority of Americans are being fearful.
Americans Assess Progress Under Obama | Gallup
 
Goshin said:
I'm waiting to see what he actually DOES once in office before I make any sort of final judgment.


Everything up to now is just talk, and talk is just hot air moving around. Not all of it Trump's by any means.
Click to expand...

For sure. I've always said that one should ignore what politicians say and pay attention to what they do. Since Trump isn't even President yet, it is way to early to criticize.
 
EvaPeron said:
The truth on the other side of the story is that we "Trump supporters" do see the world differently than non Trump supporters. But, that doesn't mean we are wrong. And I for one, think that it is a shame you think we live in a different reality, unless that reality is one of common sense, hard work, strong military, less handouts, less government, balanced budgets, trust in our police and fear of our laws, better education and choice in education, keeping manufacturing and other jobs from leaving our country, securing our borders and cleaning up our inner cities which are plagued with crime.

We aren't living our lives watching the news for goodness sakes. We are living our lives by working and raising our kids, growing businesses, paying our taxes and living up to the expectations our forefathers set down for us.

We see the world in a different manner maybe than you, because we are tired of all the takers. We are tired of all those who thinks that the government (aka me and other tax payers) owe them something. Sorry to all the snowflakes in the world - but we DO NOT owe you anything. It is time - Trump Time - to say look, you make of your life what you make of it. It is NO ONE else's fault if you do not succeed. It is not my fault if you can't work and pay for health care. It isn't my fault if you are homeless. It isn't my fault if you can't afford to go to college or don't make that a priority or just aren't smart enough to go.

That's what it means when people say "grow up." So, if that side of Trump and this next four or eight years scares you, or scares anyone, then in my humble opinion it is because they are afraid to grow up and take responsibility for their own destiny.

If that sounds CARTOONISH or a different reality then I can live with that.
Click to expand...

That is sad. I work. I support my family. I donate, not take hand outs. That is why it is cartoonish. You don't know me, what I believe, or how I live my life. You are after a fictitious enemy. There are probably just as many people who support Trump who meet your definition of "taker" as there are who oppose him. I personally know one able bodied Trump supporter who does not work and collects disability because he has an "anxiety disorder". So...in my calmest possible voice...screw you. You think Trump represents "responsible" behavior? He has conducted himself like an adult?
 
CriticalThought said:
There is a thread posted by a person who chose to take a partisan view on opposition to Trump. He suggested that Trump will cut entitlements and welfare used by supporters of the liberals and progressives.

I personally have a fear of Trump because of what he represents for the country as a whole.



https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/05/...donald-trumps-authoritarian-reality.html?_r=1



Autocratic for the people: As Donald Trump?s populist wave recedes, an authoritarian regime in the making is revealed - Salon.com

I questioned this kind of reasoning as cartoonish but then I read what has been posted here by those who generally support Trump and you see it. They are living in a different reality and it is one that has been created by Trump and the media around him.

The economy is tanking, violence is worse than it has ever been, Obamacare is in a death spiral, we are under constant threat of Islamic terrorists, our borders are surging with criminal immigrants, political correctness has run amok to the point that Christian values are under assault and it is all the fault of the "not real" Americans who push a corrupt leftist agenda.

This isn't reality and most of it is easily demonstrated to be false with facts but it is the narrative that many people seem to want to believe and they want someone to fix it. Trump is the man, and his supporters will hold to him with unwavering conviction.They are the tool Trump will use to get his way. He will use them to further polarize the nation and they will be all too happy to comply and some will look to fellow Americans with contempt and disgust that makes what we see today look like a hippy festival. And that is where someone, either from the left or right, will step in and what is left of our democracy will die with a quiet whimper.

That is why I fear Trump.
Click to expand...


Fears are usually predicated on prejudice and ignorance, yours are no exception.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom