conservatives can no longer deny they've been lied to about deficits.

Vern said:

whoa whoa casca, I didn't ask you to post more ridiculous nonsense. I asked you to back up your point. Its no shock that you continued your fantasy, all conservative (and conservative like posters) do it. Now please back up your "story" about a bill that Bush introduced in 2004 that was filibustered after a year and a half and how it would have prevented the Bush Mortgage Bubble. this is not a chat room. This is a debate forum.

Click to expand...

You are right this a DEBATE FORUM. Lazy Leftist like yourself seem to believe it is " Post Links from Your favorite Propaganda Sit Forum." With the truth almost never on your side I can see how you consider it a necessity. I try to stay away links but since you insist.

Democrats Were Wrong on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac | Thomas ...
Access Denied...
Oct 6, 2008 - Democrats Were Wrong on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac ... Pundit), that the Bush administration has called for tighter regulation of the ... Chairman Barney Frank likes to point out, the House did pass a bill in response.
Bush Called For Reform of Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac 17 Times in ...
Bush Called For Reform of Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac 17 Times in 2008 Alone... Dems Ignored Warnings...
Sep 21, 2008 - Bush Called For Reform of Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac 17 Times in .... The GSE reform bill passed by the House earlier this year is a good start.
Six Years of Unheeded Warnings for GSE Reform - the White House
https://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/.../20081009-10.htm...
Oct 9, 2008 - (Editorial, "Hear, See And Speak No Evil About Fannie And Freddie," The ... The Administration's Efforts To Reform Fannie Mae And Freddie Mac .... The GSE reform bill passed by the House earlier this year is a good start. But the ... (President George W. Bush, Discusses Housing, the White House, 12/6/07).
Bush Insisted Fannie Mae And Freddie Mac Were Private - ValueWalk
Bush Insisted Fannie Mae And Freddie Mac Were Private
Oct 13, 2016 - President Bush Insisted Fannie and Freddie Would be Owned by ... CBS News' Bill Plante pressed Bush about the perceived federal backstop ... he recognized reforms on how they operated and were regulated were in order.
New Agency Proposed to Oversee Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae - The ...
The New York Times on the Web: Update Error...
Sep 11, 2003 - Bush administration proposes new agency be created within Treasury ... New Agency Proposed to Oversee Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae .... Significant details must still be worked out before Congress can approve a bill.
Bush Administration Tried to Reform Freddie and Fannie Five Years Ago
www.cnsnews.com/.../bush-administration-tried-reform-freddie-and-fann...
Feb 19, 2009 - Fox News's Bill O'Reilly asked former White House adviser Karl Rove that ... Rove said Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac “accelerated their ...
You visited this page on 1/14/17.
Timeline shows Bush, McCain warning Dems of financial and housing ...
Video for bush bill to reform fannie mae▶ 4:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM
Sep 24, 2008 - Uploaded by ProudToBeCanadian
The Bush Admin and Senator McCain warned repeatedly about Fanny Mae ... Democrats in their own words ...
Another Conservative Myth Busted -- Did Fannie and Freddie Really ...
www.huffingtonpost.com/marvin.../fannie-mae-freddie_b_1549411.htm...
Jun 11, 2012 - ... the Wall Street meltdown was caused by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, ... Barney Frank for derailing Bush's attempts to reform Freddie and Fannie. ... Republicans could have passed any bill they liked with a simple majority.
Federal takeover of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/.../Federal_takeover_of_Fannie_Mae_and_Fredd...
Jump to Previous attempts at GSE reform - In 2003, the Bush Administration sought to create a new agency, ... A Senate reform bill introduced by Senator Jon Corzine (D-NJ) ... oversight of loans given by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
Who Caused the Economic Crisis? - FactCheck.org
www.factcheck.org/2008/10/who-caused-the-economic-crisis/
Oct 1, 2008 - Moreover, the bill had nothing to do with causing the crisis, and economists ... would have tightened regulations on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. ... while Democrats blocked reforms leaving taxpayers "on the hook for billions. ... John McCain's friend George Bush wants hardworking Americans to write the ...
federal housing enterprise regulatory reform act of 2005

faithful_servant said:

..and once again, a liberal ignores the FACT that it was a response to a DEM. Congress that triggered the last recession. But that's just truth and if the truth doesn't match the narrative, go with the narrative - right???

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I hate to sidebar this, but that really is a bit of a wild-A statement. You can't say such stuff without offering up credible proof. Do so, or the thread just gets to read this as a shout from the freak in the third deck.

Casca XV said:

You are right this a DEBATE FORUM. Lazy Leftist like yourself seem to believe it is " Post Links from Your favorite Propaganda Sit Forum." With the truth almost never on your side I can see how you consider it a necessity. I try to stay away links but since you insist.

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er uh casca, I don't mean to interrupt your posting rampage but you made some specific claims about a "bush" bill from 2004 that was filibustered a year and a half later that would have prevented the Bush Mortgage Bubble. I didn't ask you to post all the "editorials" you could find. I asked you to back up your point. I find conservatives (and conservative like posters) have a real hard time with the concept of debate so let me help you. First you make a claim, then a relevant blurb to back up claim, and then link for blurb. Solid factual links are preferable to editorials. Watch how I do it.

Claim
The Bush Mortgage Bubble started late 2004

blurb to back up claim

From Bush’s President’s Working Group on Financial Markets October 2008

“The Presidents Working Group’s March policy statement acknowledged that turmoil in financial markets clearly was triggered by a dramatic weakening of underwriting standards for U.S. subprime mortgages, beginning in late 2004 and extending into 2007.”

Link
http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/fin-mkts/Documents/q4progress update.pdf

Now I pointed you to a thread where you learn actual facts. I can only assume you were too lazy (or scared) to click on it. In that thread you would dozens of solid factual links. Try to learn some actual facts before you reply

Vern said:

er uh casca, I don't mean to interrupt your posting rampage but you made some specific claims about a "bush" bill from 2004 that was filibustered a year and a half later that would have prevented the Bush Mortgage Bubble. I didn't ask you to post all the "editorials" you could find. I asked you to back up your point. I find conservatives (and conservative like posters) have a real hard time with the concept of debate so let me help you. First you make a claim, then a relevant blurb to back up claim, and then link for blurb. Solid factual links are preferable to editorials. Watch how I do it.

Claim
The Bush Mortgage Bubble started late 2004

blurb to back up claim

From Bush’s President’s Working Group on Financial Markets October 2008

“The Presidents Working Group’s March policy statement acknowledged that turmoil in financial markets clearly was triggered by a dramatic weakening of underwriting standards for U.S. subprime mortgages, beginning in late 2004 and extending into 2007.”

Link
http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/fin-mkts/Documents/q4progress update.pdf

Now I pointed you to a thread where you learn actual facts. I can only assume you were too lazy (or scared) to click on it. In that thread you would dozens of solid factual links. Try to learn some actual facts before you reply

Click to expand...

I just gave you a dozen articles on it. You lost this and now you are the one filibustering by demanding more proof.

I agree the Mortgage Bubble started around 2004. With Carters CRA in place Clinton created the perfect storm by deregulating Freddy & Fanny. Not much happened under Clinton because it takes time to get started soon after there was a Tech Bubble recession made worse by 911. The Recession ended and the Bush tax cuts created a great economy. A lot of Real Estate was bought during this prosperous time, but because of these Liberal Democrat policies a lot was bought by people who could not actually afford the mortgages.

Casca XV said:

I just gave you a dozen articles on it. You lost this and now you are the one filibustering by demanding more proof.

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casca, I didn't ask for your posting "rampage". I asked you to back up the "bush" bill from 2004 that was filibustered a year and a half later that would have prevented the Bush Mortgage Bubble. Sadly casca, you're just another conservative (or conservative like poster) who posts things he believes because liars told you to believe it. Now its time for you have some integrity and admit you can back up your claim. Don't worry if you don't have the integrity to admit, conservatives (or conservative like posters) never admit they believed something false.

I agree the Mortgage Bubble started around 2004. With Carters CRA in place Clinton created the perfect storm by deregulating Freddy & Fanny. Not much happened under Clinton because it takes time to get started soon after there was a Tech Bubble recession made worse by 911. The Recession ended and the Bush tax cuts created a great economy. A lot of Real Estate was bought during this prosperous time, but because of these Liberal Democrat policies a lot was bought by people who could not actually afford the mortgages.

Click to expand...

again, I didn't ask you for more of your silly "opinions". I asked you to back up the "bush" bill from 2004 that was filibustered a year and a half later that would have prevented the Bush Mortgage Bubble.

Vern said:

casca, I didn't ask for your posting "rampage". I asked you to back up the "bush" bill from 2004 that was filibustered a year and a half later that would have prevented the Bush Mortgage Bubble. Sadly casca, you're just another conservative (or conservative like poster) who posts things he believes because liars told you to believe it. Now its time for you have some integrity and admit you can back up your claim. Don't worry if you don't have the integrity to admit, conservatives (or conservative like posters) never admit they believed something false.



again, I didn't ask you for more of your silly "opinions". I asked you to back up the "bush" bill from 2004 that was filibustered a year and a half later that would have prevented the Bush Mortgage Bubble.

Click to expand...

Not my opinion, see post #126.

What is it like to be a Leftist, to embrace an ideology that is always wrong? I'm curious please tell me?

Casca XV said:

Not my opinion, see post #126.

What is it like to be a Leftist, to embrace an ideology that is always wrong? I'm curious please tell me?

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Yes casca, I saw you posting 'rampage' in post 126. I saw nothing that in any way backed up your "bush" bill from 2004 that was filibustered a year and a half later that would have prevented the Bush Mortgage Bubble" narrative. If you lack the integrity to admit you cant back up your point, then you shouldn't be at debate forum.

Casca XV said:

Not my opinion, see post #126.

What is it like to be a Leftist, to embrace an ideology that is always wrong? I'm curious please tell me?

Click to expand...

Vern is a dishonest debater. He tries to win his arguments through bullying.

Moderate Right said:

Vern is a dishonest debater. He tries to win his arguments through bullying.

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I don't know about bullying. Even a bully has to have some strength. This guy is a weakling trying to cover up a debate loss with a filibuster.

Vern said:

Yes casca, I saw you posting 'rampage' in post 126. I saw nothing that in any way backed up your "bush" bill from 2004 that was filibustered a year and a half later that would have prevented the Bush Mortgage Bubble" narrative. If you lack the integrity to admit you cant back up your point, then you shouldn't be at debate forum.

Click to expand...

Nice try Vern.What do you get out of dishonesty? If there was ay piece of information out there contradicting my sources you would be showing it. Misrepresenting what my links say wont save you from this embarrassing debate loss.

Im not here to convince you. Im here to expose the lies and propaganda from you and other Leftist.

Athanasius68 said:

What are you talking about? The GOP has argued that which Ryan said, for years. Grow the economy, and the deficits and debt shrink as a total share, thus easier to deal with. Granted, there were Republicans who took the absolutist $$$ approach to the problem.

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LOL no they haven't, that's a pure LIE right there.

Casca XV said:

Nice try Vern.What do you get out of dishonesty? If there was ay piece of information out there contradicting my sources you would be showing it. Misrepresenting what my links say wont save you from this embarrassing debate loss.

Im not here to convince you. Im here to expose the lies and propaganda from you and other Leftist.

Click to expand...

That's ironic because you just dumped a load of right wing lies that are tangential to the thread about your wild claims of blaming democrats for what republicans did.

You seem to have a hard time with personal responsibility. See, President Bush 2 was president for 4 years in the beginning of the housing crisis. His actions were to force the states to forcibly dissolve their subprime loan regulations. This is how the loan originators could get away with the rampant fraud that was required to produce the actual bubble. Now, if you had so much as a vague familiarity with President Bush 2's own working group, the people he assigned to figure out how the mortgage crisis occurred, you'd know that they blamed, most importantly, President Bush 2's forced deregulation of mortgage underwriting standards.

Now, please do not cite another right wing lie piece that tries to blame the equivalent of a massive car accident on the invention of the wheel. When the right wing liars are claiming that the mortgage crisis occurred because of what democrats did twenty years earlier (without any issues in the middle), you should find that suspicious.

Something tells me you're more interested in towing the party line than actually being accurate, feel free to prove me wrong, if you have the integrity.

Casca XV said:

Nice try Vern.What do you get out of dishonesty? If there was ay piece of information out there contradicting my sources you would be showing it. Misrepresenting what my links say wont save you from this embarrassing debate loss.

Im not here to convince you. Im here to expose the lies and propaganda from you and other Leftist.

Click to expand...

See how the conservative mind so easily convinces itself of whatever reality it wants to believe. He cant back up his narrative and instead of having the integrity to admit he simply creates another narrative to cling to original narrative. So magic presto what he believes is true because "If there was ay piece of information out there contradicting my sources you would be showing it." and now I'm "mispresenting" his links. I alimost feel bad for simply asking him to back up his narrative.

Casca, had you the courage to actually click on the thread link I provided you would have seen plenty of information contradicting your "sources". Lets face itconservatives like yourself lack the courage to venture far from your narratives. Lets see if you can find some courage today. Here's bush attacking GSE reform because as he said "would lessen the housing GSEs' commitment to low-income homebuyers.". Now casca, this is going to be hard for you grasp right away because its reality but I posting Bush's own policy statement.

Vern said:

George W. Bush: Statement of Administration Policy: H.R. 1461 - Federal Housing Finance Reform Act of 2005
The Administration strongly believes that the housing GSEs should be focused on their core housing mission, particularly with respect to low-income Americans and first-time homebuyers. Instead, provisions of H.R. 1461 that expand mortgage purchasing authority would lessen the housing GSEs' commitment to low-income homebuyers.

Yes, bush opposed it which was quite consistent with his other policies and actions.

Click to expand...

before you go on another delusion fueled tirade, can you just admit that you can no longer deny you've been lied to by conservatives concerning debt and deficits. Its the thread topic. thanks a bunch.

Moderate Right said:

Vern is a dishonest debater. He tries to win his arguments through bullying.

Click to expand...

MR, you equating "posting facts" with bullying says more about you than you realize. Now MR, you join a long list of conservatives (and conservative like posters) who call me dishonest. You could join a short list (its so short there is no one on the list) who cuts and pastes something I've posted that is dishonest instead of just whining that I'm dishonest.

Vern said:

See how the conservative mind so easily convinces itself of whatever reality it wants to believe. He cant back up his narrative and instead of having the integrity to admit he simply creates another narrative to cling to original narrative. So magic presto what he believes is true because "If there was ay piece of information out there contradicting my sources you would be showing it." and now I'm "mispresenting" his links. I alimost feel bad for simply asking him to back up his narrative.

Casca, had you the courage to actually click on the thread link I provided you would have seen plenty of information contradicting your "sources". Lets face itconservatives like yourself lack the courage to venture far from your narratives. Lets see if you can find some courage today. Here's bush attacking GSE reform because as he said "would lessen the housing GSEs' commitment to low-income homebuyers.". Now casca, this is going to be hard for you grasp right away because its reality but I posting Bush's own policy statement.



before you go on another delusion fueled tirade, can you just admit that you can no longer deny you've been lied to by conservatives concerning debt and deficits. Its the thread topic. thanks a bunch.

Click to expand...

WOW Vern, did you read your own link? You are either an idiot or one hell of a reckless liar.

This reminds me of a time when I was debating a Liberal who was claiming Reagan policies had nothing to do with the fall of the USSR and then to prove his point he posted a link of Bill Clinton and Ted Kennedy each giving a speech giving Reagan 100% credit for the fall of the USSR.

Getting back to the original thread topic: Are there Conservatives who have lied? Hell yes. But as you just demonstrated comparing Conservatives Republicans to Liberal Democrats in the area of dishonest corruption is like comparing a shoplifter to a violent felon.

Leftist constantly claim Obama improved the deficit. But that is physically impossible considering the Deficit is the budget shortfall that creates the Debt and Obama has increased the Debt more than the previous 43 Presidents combined.

Vern said:

MR, you equating "posting facts" with bullying says more about you than you realize. Now MR, you join a long list of conservatives (and conservative like posters) who call me dishonest. You could join a short list (its so short there is no one on the list) who cuts and pastes something I've posted that is dishonest instead of just whining that I'm dishonest.

Click to expand...

There you go bullying again.

Casca XV said:

WOW Vern, did you read your own link? You are either an idiot or one hell of a reckless liar.

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er uh casca, I couldn't help but notice you called me "either an idiot or one hell of a reckless liar" and then instead of explaining why you went off on some tangent. So casca, that's now two points you've made that you don't seem to think you need to back up. So do you think you could try to explain what I've posted that upsets you so or will this be another thing you don't have to back up or explain because you're special?

Getting back to the original thread topic: Are there Conservatives who have lied? Hell yes. But as you just demonstrated comparing Conservatives Republicans to Liberal Democrats in the area of dishonest corruption is like comparing a shoplifter to a violent felon.

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you're not responding to my point. Yes, they lied to you but they used those lies to sabotage the economy and undermine the recovery. The reason you "misparaphrase" it as only "they lied" is because you don't want to acknowledge your conservative masters put their political agenda above that of average Americans. They let people suffer and suffer longer and you and yours cheered them on.

Leftist constantly claim Obama improved the deficit. But that is physically impossible considering the Deficit is the budget shortfall that creates the Debt and Obama has increased the Debt more than the previous 43 Presidents combined.

Click to expand...

you should try to understand simple concepts before working your way up to just slightly less simple concepts. Focus on the fact that your conservative masters put their political agenda above that of average Americans.

Moderate Right said:

There you go bullying again.

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oh, now we learn "back up your point" is bullying too. Er uh MR, if "back up your point" and me posting facts is bullying, maybe you're just a little too delicate for a debate forum. Its not like you ever back up anything you post, so why are you here?

Vern said:

oh, now we learn "back up your point" is bullying too. Er uh MR, if "back up your point" and me posting facts is bullying, maybe you're just a little too delicate for a debate forum. Its not like you ever back up anything you post, so why are you here?

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You don't accept any evidence from the other side. You only accept your own evidence.

Moderate Right said:

You don't accept any evidence from the other side. You only accept your own evidence.

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first MR, you've just described every single conservative I deal with. Not just at this forum, every conservative. Now be specific or go away. And that doesn't mean post something you imagined.

so just to be clear, I said back up your point. You chose to whine.

Vern said:

first MR, you've just described every single conservative I deal with. Not just at this forum, every conservative. Now be specific or go away. And that doesn't mean post something you imagined.

so just to be clear, I said back up your point. You chose to whine.

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first VR, you've just described every single liberal I deal with. Not just at this forum, every liberal. You chose to ignore every one else's facts but your own so, I ignore your whining. If you want me to go away then put me on ignore.

You are not seriously going to start being concerned about deficits and debt now, are you?

Eric7216 said:

You are not seriously going to start being concerned about deficits and debt now, are you?

Click to expand...

ahhhh, the deflecting question. What would conservatives post if couldn't ask silly deflecting questions? they would post a lot less. Anyhoo, you seemed to have missed the point the thread. your onservative masters are no longer concerned about debt and deficits now. Remember how you and yours were literally foaming at the mouth that "debt would destroy us all". Republicans used your irrational fear (that they happily stoked) to sabotage the economy and undermine the recovery. And you cheered them on.

Here's a crazy idea eric, why not respond to the thread topic in an honest and intelligent fashion.

Moderate Right said:

first VR, you've just described every single liberal I deal with. Not just at this forum, every liberal. You chose to ignore every one else's facts but your own so, I ignore your whining. If you want me to go away then put me on ignore.

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oh look, you're simply repeating your narrative. You didn't even attempt to back it up. the concept of debate still befuddles you I see. tell you what I'll do. I give you an example of someone who ignores evidence and how you show it to prove your point. Here's a poster who repeatedly claimed he'd never seen anybody blame President Carter for the Bush Mortgage Bubble.

Moderate Right said:

I don't recall anyone blaming Carter for the mortgage bubble.

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Moderate Right said:

must have missed it but I don't remember anyone blaming Carter for the mortgage bubble.

Click to expand...

Moderate Right said:

Please show me anywhere that anyone blamed Carter for the mortgage bubble.

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Moderate Right said:

Why do you keep on repeating the thing about Carter? Please show me anywhere that anyone blamed Carter for the mortgage bubble.

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So I posted someone blaming carter and then the guy replied with this giant steaming pile of dishonesty and deflection

Moderate Right said:

Vern, you are far too biased to debate with. There is nothing for an honest debater to grab ahold of to debate with you because you are just too partisan. But, that's you MO. You spew this extreme liberal BS until the other side just gives up so you can feel good about thinking that you won the debate.

Click to expand...

So MR, if you need anymore help with the concept of debate, don't hesitate to ask.

Vern said:

oh look, you're simply repeating your narrative. You didn't even attempt to back it up. the concept of debate still befuddles you I see. tell you what I'll do. I give you an example of someone who ignores evidence and how you show it to prove your point. Here's a poster who repeatedly claimed he'd never seen anybody blame President Carter for the Bush Mortgage Bubble.






So I posted someone blaming carter and then the guy replied with this giant steaming pile of dishonesty and deflection



So MR, if you need anymore help with the concept of debate, don't hesitate to ask.

Click to expand...

Been backed up before by me and others. But, you refuse to accept our facts and then dishonestly proclaim that we didn't give any.