If Obamacare is so bad....

jaeger19 · Jan 12, 2017

Visbek said:
Insurers spent several years with low (as in, 4%) increases. Even in 2017, many states have single-digit increases. The problem is that the mandate isn't strong enough, so younger people still stay out of the system.

Yes they did.. when the economy was doing poorly. Because you can't get blood out of a rock. Now that the economy is doing better.. increases are yet again on the rise. Of course.. as obamacare progressed... you would think the opposite would happen (premiums would shrink as the benefits of obamacare continue on) ... but it didn't. Which is a clear indicator that was most likely the decrease in the economy that led to a decrease in the rate increases.

Not with the ACA. If insurers spend less than 80% of premiums on health care, then they are required to send ratepayers a rebate for the difference. SO glad you know how the law you're criticizing works.

Yeah.. that's whats funny. You don't understand the ACA. Because on one hand it prevents costs from going down.. if insurance companies are at that 20% maximum. A reduction in costs actually hurts them. so their is an incentive at the 20% mark to keep costs from going down.

On the other hand.. for companies that aren't at the level of 20% profit margin.. then there is an incentive to keep the costs down and pocket the profit.. getting them up to that 20% margin.

SO glad you understand the economics of healthcare.. you so vehemently argue for. :roll:

By the way nice graph.

Lets see.. prior to obmacare the vast majority were younger people 18.25.. followed by 25 to 34...

With a smidge of 35 to 64 year olds. and very few elderly.

thanks for making my point.

Preventive"

And yet, you insisted that giving immediate PT to someone who is already injured is preventive, so... no.

So yes. its not my fault you don't understand what is preventative.

Okay.. you don't like my example.

Lets take a screening for diabetes.. .is that preventative? So it test positive and you treat for diabetes.. is that preventative? they still have diabetes and will for the rest of their life.

Of course.. managing the diabetes means that they won't progress to all sorts of other problems that result in expensive procedures.

just like physical therapy for a back problem prevents that problem from progressing to a point where there are all sorts of other problems that necessitate expensive procedures like surgery.

what ever man.. you are wrong.

I never said that "every single uninsured person is sick." That is utter nonsense. What I'm saying is as a group, they needed coverage. It is foolish to deny that out of a population of 47 million, many of whom are poor, you're going to have lots of sick and/or injured people.

Exactly. so they don't need coverage because THEY ARE SICK. they as a group will do fine without coverage. The vast number of them won't care whether they had coverage or not because they aren;t sick nor will get sick.

Meanwhile, you're trying to sell us on the idea that a group that is larger than the population of California were all in such good shape, that none of them needed any kind of insurance. What utter nonsense.

and yet.. while you think they needed insurance... they were able to get by without insurance as a group for decades. The only one spouting nonsense is you.

if they desperately needed healthcare insurance... how did they survive without it?

And yet, you never bother to link to any data whatsoever. How convenient. That's probably because the polls don't actually back up what you're saying.

Really... you need it again.?

More Still Say Health Law Has Hurt Instead of Helped Them | Gallup

jaeger19 · Jan 12, 2017

Yes, so much. Guaranteed issue cannot function without the mandate. The insurers would never support guaranteed issue, or removal of lifetime benefits, or required coverage of pre-existing conditions, without the mandate.

Yes but you reversed that. Republicans believed in the mandate.. not because of "guaranteed issue".. which was not a republican idea... but because republicans understood that when you don't have insurance and you get hurt and can't pay your bill.. that cost gets put on the people that do have insurance.

that's why the mandate was supported by some republicans.

So you tell me. Which elected officials are saying that we should go right back to the pre-ACA days. Why are they insisting on "repeal and replace," instead of straight-up repeal? Why were they talking about taking years just to plan a replacement?

A LOT of republicans officials. Probably the majority. Particularly the tea party favorites.

In the current climate.. I don't think there is much leverage for not repealing obamacare. the vast majority would repeal it regardless of replacement. Which means for those republicans that worry about whether their job would be on the line in a more moderate state.. there is huge pressure to find a replacement. Cause repeal could happen without replacement.

Anyway, it's pretty clear that your position is made up of no facts and lots of emotion. No wonder you can ignore the mess the Republican elected officials are in right now.

too funny. Its clear your position is made up of all emotion and little facts. No wonder you probably thought Hillary was going to win and the republicans were going to be "irrelevant". You simply don't understand political realities. Trump.. and the republicans ran on repeal. And though there was some "replace" there.. they ran without ANY replacement... so basically it was repeal. And guess what... it was a big election for republicans.

Plus you don't get that for most americans.. obamacare and their healthcare insurance is simply not as big a deal as you make it out. Because they already have insurance.. through work or through government programs. they had it before Obamacare and they have it now.

jaeger19 · Jan 12, 2017

Vern said:
MR, they bill you. I hope you not trying to backtrack to the lying conservative narrative that you have to pay the deductible upfront. You're not are you?

Now MR, I think we're making progress. Lets pretend the person in question needs a stint. He doesn't get that stint without medical coverage. And get this, even though the operation cost 100,000 the patient only owes 12,000 and the hospital gets 88,000 upfront. Without the coverage the patient doesn't get the stint. Now sure, the patient without coverage doesn't own 12,000. Which one would you like to be? the one who got the life saving surgery or the one that saved 12,000?

Oh and MR, what will you say if its worse under Trumpcare or Ryancare? You'll be just as angry right? not like the way you guys foamed at the mouth about deficits and now say nothing.

Well Vern.. I hop you didn't have any family member who paid for a "stint".

they might need a STENT......

Just a suggestion.. if you are going to be a condescending ........ at least get the term right.

Visbek · Jan 12, 2017

jaeger19 said:
Yes they did.. when the economy was doing poorly.

Oddly enough, premium growth didn't fall in other years when the economy was doing poorly. And the economy wasn't doing worse in 2013 than in 2014. What are the odds.

By the way, Vermont's Silver premiums only went up 5%. Does that mean Vermont's economy had a banner year, while Arizona got hit hard? Hmmmmm.

Yeah.. that's whats funny. You don't understand the ACA. Because on one hand it prevents costs from going down.. if insurance companies are at that 20% maximum. A reduction in costs actually hurts them. so their is an incentive at the 20% mark to keep costs from going down.

Meaning what, they're intentionally agreeing to higher costs with providers so that they can charge more in premiums? :lamo

By the way nice graph. Lets see.. prior to obmacare the vast majority were younger people 18.25.. followed by 25 to 34... With a smidge of 35 to 64 year olds. and very few elderly.

Uh, no. That's not what the graph is saying.

It's saying that 23% of 26-34 year olds didn't have coverage, and 13% of 35-64 year olds didn't have coverage. Those are sizable groups. Depicting them as frisky youngsters who never have medical conditions is flat-out wrong.

Lets take a screening for diabetes.. .is that preventative?

Yes. Screening for Type 2 diabetes is both preventive care, and covered by the ACA. It also covers diet counseling for at-risk individuals; self-management training; and funded a national program to prevent diabetes. The latter is also designed to save Medicare money, by attempting to prevent diabetes (https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2016...upported-affordable-care-act-saves-money.html).

just like physical therapy for a back problem prevents that problem from progressing to a point where there are all sorts of other problems that necessitate expensive procedures like surgery.

By your logic, cutting out a tumor before it becomes malignant should be classified as "preventive care," because it prevented a patient's cancer from getting worse.

Exactly. so they don't need coverage because THEY ARE SICK. they as a group will do fine without coverage. The vast number of them won't care whether they had coverage or not because they aren;t sick nor will get sick.

And yet again: You not only have no proof, your claim makes no sense. We are talking about 47 million people. That's more than the total population of California. Are you really going to claim that in a given year, 47 million people won't have any need whatsoever for medical care? That is beyond absurd.

Further, it certainly does seem like people care, since millions signed up or used Medicare.

and yet.. while you think they needed insurance... they were able to get by without insurance as a group for decades. The only one spouting nonsense is you.

if they desperately needed healthcare insurance... how did they survive without it?

Not well.

Report from 2012, lack of health care led to:
- 20,000 deaths in 2005
- 26,000 deaths in 2010
- half were unable to find a primary care doctor
- 40% were refused by doctors, who didn't want to care for someone without insurance
- half delayed preventive care / screenings
- 6 times more likely to go without care than insured adults (26% vs 4%)
- cancer patients were 5 times more likely to delay or go without care (25% vs 5%)
- more likely to be diagnosed when disease is at a later stage
- 25% more likely to die prematurely than people with insurance
- they pay more for care
- 3 out of 5 had problems with medical bills
http://familiesusa.org/sites/default/files/product_documents/Dying-for-Coverage.pdf

You can't possibly tell me these are good outcomes.

And let's not forget, many people lost care because they were sick, and thus lost their jobs, which meant a loss in coverage.

Really... you need it again.?

More Still Say Health Law Has Hurt Instead of Helped Them | Gallup

Again, you didn't read your own source. Aside from 16% of people saying the law hurt them in 2012 (before it had done much more than let you put your kids up to age 26 on your insurance), it's a highly partisan result, and even Gallup knows it.

Visbek · Jan 12, 2017

jaeger19 said:
Yes but you reversed that. Republicans believed in the mandate.. not because of "guaranteed issue".. which was not a republican idea... but because republicans understood that when you don't have insurance and you get hurt and can't pay your bill.. that cost gets put on the people that do have insurance.

that's why the mandate was supported by some republicans.

I reversed nothing.

My point, yet again, was that the core of the ACA -- guaranteed issue, mandates, subsidies, Medicare expansion -- were conservative ideas. This was all part of Romneycare, which was developed in conjunction with the Heritage Foundation and got a big thumbs up from Newt Gingrich.

Yes, part of both the ACA and Romneycare is to require insurance, both to increase the size of the risk pool (which brings down cost) and to mitigate free riders.

A LOT of republicans officials. Probably the majority. Particularly the tea party favorites.

...and yet another statement with no proof.

The Freedom Caucus isn't saying "take us back." They aren't saying "repeal and that's it." They're saying "we don't just want a repeal, we want a replacement, and we want to know what you're going to replace it with."
Freedom Caucus opposes GOP's Obamacare replacement plan - POLITICO

In the current climate.. I don't think there is much leverage for not repealing obamacare. the vast majority would repeal it regardless of replacement.

Wrong. See links above. Heck, read a freaking news article on it.

Some U.S. House Republicans doubtful ahead of vote to begin Obamacare repeal | Reuters

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powe...d296534b31e_story.html?utm_term=.0edcc7f71c1d

Ryan: GOP Will Work on Repealing, Replacing Health Law - ABC News

Media_Truth · Jan 12, 2017

Vern said:
Why can’t republicans come up with a better plan? How about a plan? Yea, they’ve had 6 years. We’ve had 3 full years of the exchanges. Certainly there is enough data from that alone to help come up with a plan. it doesn't even have to be a better plan. They can just lie that its better and their base wont hold them accountable. Their base just needs something to repeat over and over. I'm thinking something along the lines of “sure it covers fewer people and costs more but its better because there are no death panels”.

Certainly even some conservatives have to start to wonder how "repeal and replace" got repealed and replaced with "repeal and delay"?

I certainly agree. Obama asked them over and over, for their input. They seemed more content to just complain, bicker, and not get involved.

Vern · Jan 12, 2017

Moderate Right said:
You don't even know what Trumpcare or Ryancare will even look like. I do get it though. Since the Pubs beat the Dems into the ground across the board, criticism is the only thing you have left in life. Criticize all you want while your liberal life disappears all around you, which will make you criticize even more as your temper tantrums get bigger and bigger. I hear Rosie O'Donnel is now hoping for martial law to be declared in order to prevent the innaugeration from happening. I swear, you guys are way worse than the Republicans were after Obama won in 2008. The truth is you aren't terrified of Trump doing bad. You are terrified of Trump doing good.

what an incredibly whiny deflection. and dishonest too. I didn't say what Trumpcare or Ryancare would look like. MR, I responded directly to your posts. What does it say about you and your ideology that you cant respond in an honest and intelligent manner? so I guess you wont be explaining how I "twisted your words". yea, no shock there MR.

Urethra Franklin · Jan 12, 2017

fmw said:
The right plan is no Obamacare at all and no involvement of government in the insurance business. Unfortunately, people aren't ready to understand that.

When the World Health Organisation used to publish league tables, France and Sweden consistantly came top for health care outcomes - two socialised health care systems.

I've lived and worked in two socialised health care systmes (the UK and France) and despite their problems, in general you get an excellent level of health care that's essentially free to the population. In the UK it's actually free at the point of delivery - money never changes hands. France and others have a reimbursement system but provided you've paid into the system through working, you're covered, and even if you haven't there is a safety net called the CMU (couverture maladie universelle) which gives you the same benefits anyway.

In the US you spend more of your GDP on health care than any other OECD country yet your health care outcomes aren't great, partly because your health service is inequitable and inefficient and partly because you don't invest in social care, which other nations have realised goes hand in hand with health care:

U.S. Health Care from a Global Perspective - The Commonwealth Fund

You need to get over your irrational fear of anything "lefty" - Obamacare was a good start, but sadly Trump is now going to wreck it all.

Vern · Jan 12, 2017

jaeger19 said:
Well Vern.. I hop you didn't have any family member who paid for a "stint".

they might need a STENT......

Just a suggestion.. if you are going to be a condescending ........ at least get the term right.

thank you jaeger. My father got one, I never bothered to see how it was spelled. See how when you correct me I don't try to pretend I wasn't wrong and then immediately flail whine and deflect.

Absentglare · Jan 12, 2017

Media_Truth said:
I certainly agree. Obama asked them over and over, for their input. They seemed more content to just complain, bicker, and not get involved.

The 6 year figure is forgiving. It assumes that republicans spent no time assessing the issue of healthcare while democrats were drafting Obamacare.

What's most strange is that all of their rhetoric was so severe that they convinced many people that repealing Obamacare is better than nothing. Now they have the opportunity to repeal Obamacare and they're afraid to. This is obviously because they know it would be an unmitigated disaster of such gravity that some of their constituents might actually be forced to acknowledge it.

fmw · Jan 13, 2017

Urethra Franklin said:
When the World Health Organisation used to publish league tables, France and Sweden consistantly came top for health care outcomes - two socialised health care systems.

I've lived and worked in two socialised health care systmes (the UK and France) and despite their problems, in general you get an excellent level of health care that's essentially free to the population. In the UK it's actually free at the point of delivery - money never changes hands. France and others have a reimbursement system but provided you've paid into the system through working, you're covered, and even if you haven't there is a safety net called the CMU (couverture maladie universelle) which gives you the same benefits anyway.

In the US you spend more of your GDP on health care than any other OECD country yet your health care outcomes aren't great, partly because your health service is inequitable and inefficient and partly because you don't invest in social care, which other nations have realised goes hand in hand with health care:

U.S. Health Care from a Global Perspective - The Commonwealth Fund

You need to get over your irrational fear of anything "lefty" - Obamacare was a good start, but sadly Trump is now going to wreck it all.

All I can say is that the UK and France likely have better governments than we have. Ours has already proven its incompetence in dealing with health care.

jaeger19 · Jan 13, 2017

Vern said:
thank you jaeger. My father got one, I never bothered to see how it was spelled. See how when you correct me I don't try to pretend I wasn't wrong and then immediately flail whine and deflect.

Yes Vern.. You are just a paragon of appropriate posting behavior... :roll:

Vern · Jan 13, 2017

jaeger19 said:
Yes Vern.. You are just a paragon of appropriate posting behavior... :roll:

thank you.

Vern · Jan 14, 2017

fmw said:
All I can say is that the UK and France likely have better governments than we have. Ours has already proven its incompetence in dealing with health care.

sorry fmw, I don't think anybody who continues to post demonstrably false points and lacks the integrity to admit it gets to call anybody "incompetent". It seems you're just using an emotional response as a crutch to avoid dealing with the facts. You know this isn't a chatroom right? Prove you understand that this is a debate forum and can acknowledge the facts. Start your next rant with

"sure, 20 million people know have health insurance, it lowers the deficit, it improves the quality of care, republicans seem incapable of coming up with a replacement plan let alone a better one but Obamacare is bad because......."

thanks in advance.

fmw · Jan 14, 2017

Vern said:
sorry fmw, I don't think anybody who continues to post demonstrably false points and lacks the integrity to admit it gets to call anybody "incompetent". It seems you're just using an emotional response as a crutch to avoid dealing with the facts. You know this isn't a chatroom right? Prove you understand that this is a debate forum and can acknowledge the facts. Start your next rant with

"sure, 20 million people know have health insurance, it lowers the deficit, it improves the quality of care, republicans seem incapable of coming up with a replacement plan let alone a better one but Obamacare is bad because......."

thanks in advance.

I didn't post a fact. I posted an opinion. Apparently you don't have much of an appetite for opinions that are contrary to yours. Opinions can't be false. The are just opinions.

Vern · Jan 14, 2017

fmw said:
I didn't post a fact. I posted an opinion. Apparently you don't have much of an appetite for opinions that are contrary to yours. Opinions can't be false. The are just opinions.

I know you didn't post a fact. But you have posted "facts" before that were demonstrably false and you lack the integrity to admit it. Hence people should not only ignore your "facts" but also your opinion. Anyhoo, please start your next obedient "opinion" of Obamacare with

"sure, 20 million people know have health insurance, it lowers the deficit, it improves the quality of care, republicans seem incapable of coming up with a replacement plan let alone a better one but Obamacare is bad because......."

thanks again

Fenton · Jan 16, 2017

Vern said:
Why can’t republicans come up with a better plan? How about a plan? Yea, they’ve had 6 years. We’ve had 3 full years of the exchanges. Certainly there is enough data from that alone to help come up with a plan. it doesn't even have to be a better plan. They can just lie that its better and their base wont hold them accountable. Their base just needs something to repeat over and over. I'm thinking something along the lines of “sure it covers fewer people and costs more but its better because there are no death panels”.

Certainly even some conservatives have to start to wonder how "repeal and replace" got repealed and replaced with "repeal and delay"?

ObamaCare will always belong to the Democmatic party, it will always define Obama's disastrous legacy and the GOP wants no part of " fixing " something thats unfixable.

Why should they tinker with it, change it or try o fix it ? They'll be blamed by dishonest hacks for basically ruining a law that has had major a hand in turning the Democratic party into a laughing stock.

Hell yea its bad, its so bad Democrats in the 2014 Midterms pretended it didn't exist for fear of getting their asses handed to them.

They lost, they lost badly and deserved every bit of that and the latest crushing defeat. Now theyre a shell of a Political party.

VERN you should be thanking Trump and the GOP for nixing whats essnetially a huge albatross thats hung around the neck of the Democrat brand since it was passed.

Your party might actually win a election again someday. Your'e welcome Vern..

Vern · Jan 16, 2017

Fenton said:
ObamaCare will always belong to the Democmatic party, it will always define Obama's disastrous legacy and the GOP wants no part of " fixing " something thats unfixable.

Why should they tinker with it, change it or try o fix it ? They'll be blamed by dishonest hacks for basically ruining a law that has had major a hand in turning the Democratic party into a laughing stock.

Hell yea its bad, its so bad Democrats in the 2014 Midterms pretended it didn't exist for fear of getting their asses handed to them.

They lost, they lost badly and deserved every bit of that and the latest crushing defeat. Now theyre a shell of a Political party.

VERN you should be thanking Trump and the GOP for nixing whats essnetially a huge albatross thats hung around the neck of the Democrat brand since it was passed.

Your party might actually win a election again someday. Your'e welcome Vern..

er uh Fenton, I think you're in the wrong thread. You're responding a "why cant republicans fix Obamacare" post . This is the "why cant republicans come up with a plan let alone a better plan after 6 years" thread. Oh and I think you invented the double spaced reply of random deflecting blurbs.

Fenton · Jan 16, 2017

Vern said:
er uh Fenton, I think you're in the wrong thread. You're responding a "why cant republicans fix Obamacare" post . This is the "why cant republicans come up with a plan let alone a better plan after 6 years" thread. Oh and I think you invented the double spaced reply of random deflecting blurbs.

LOL....
Trump hasn't even been sworn in yet and your'e predicting something thats only occured in your Bush obsessed and severely addled brain.

Lets wait until the after he's sworn in, until after the GOP has revealed their plan before condemning it to failure, shall we ?

Given that you seem to think ObamaCare was a improvment, even a " success "....Lol !...lets just assume that you have no clue what your'e talking about when it comes analyzing the efficaciousness of a healthcare plan.......ANY healthcare plan.
That your opinion on issues of any importance and relevence should continue to be ignored out right.

Now, you owe Trump and people like me a BIG thank you for finally undoing this horrible law. So, go on then.

Thank us VERN

Vern · Jan 17, 2017

Fenton said:
LOL....
Trump hasn't even been sworn in yet and your'e predicting something thats only occured in your Bush obsessed and severely addled brain.

Lets wait until the after he's sworn in, until after the GOP has revealed their plan before condemning it to failure, shall we ?

Given that you seem to think ObamaCare was a improvment, even a " success "....Lol !...lets just assume that you have no clue what your'e talking about when it comes analyzing the efficaciousness of a healthcare plan.......ANY healthcare plan.
That your opinion on issues of any importance and relevence should continue to be ignored out right.

Now, you owe Trump and people like me a BIG thank you for finally undoing this horrible law. So, go on then.

Thank us VERN

My goodness Fenton, how much fail can you put in one post. I have no idea what you’re referring to in the first blurt of your the “obedient double spaced conservative response”. Once republicans realized that Obamacare was not only working but working quite well they changed their slogan from “repeal” to “repeal and replace”. So read this slowly, they said they would replace Obamacare with something better but have no plan. So please tell me what I’m predicting.

and fenton, you should actually read your random blurts after you type them.

Trump hasn't even been sworn in yet and your'e predicting something......
Lets wait until the after he's sworn in, until after the GOP has revealed their plan before condemning it to failure, shall we ?.......
you owe Trump and people like me a BIG thank you for finally undoing this horrible law

mmmm, it seems like you're predicting something and demanding I thank you and Trump for your prediction before he's sworn in. And fenton, this thread isn't about "condemning the GOP plan". Its about mocking the lack of a GOP plan. that's now officially two posts from you about something you imagined. can you say "severely addled"?

limelight66 · Jan 28, 2017

Vern, OK so I didn't use the word "plan" in my first statement. My mistake.

But apparently you are ok with these statements president Obama said that were lies:

If you like your plan, you can keep it.
If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor.
Families will save 25% on their insurance.

How do you explain all of that which turned out to be untrue?

Why are you still supporting the ACA?

Did you look up Saul Alinsky's "8 Rules"?

Are you OK with the fact that the then Obama said he favors a single payer system and would like to phase out employer insurance over a period of years? You can easily find that on youtube.

Born Free · Jan 28, 2017

Vern said:
Why can’t republicans come up with a better plan? How about a plan? Yea, they’ve had 6 years. We’ve had 3 full years of the exchanges. Certainly there is enough data from that alone to help come up with a plan. it doesn't even have to be a better plan. They can just lie that its better and their base wont hold them accountable. Their base just needs something to repeat over and over. I'm thinking something along the lines of “sure it covers fewer people and costs more but its better because there are no death panels”.

Certainly even some conservatives have to start to wonder how "repeal and replace" got repealed and replaced with "repeal and delay"?

They don't need a plan, remember this is Obamacare, just let it implode, then the Dems that created this monstrous failure called Obamacare will come screaming with their new plan. Whatever the hell that is, but this time around they have to get approval from the Pubs.

Vern · Jan 29, 2017

limelight66 said:
Vern, OK so I didn't use the word "plan" in my first statement. My mistake.

limelight, you said "insurance". I called you out. You had an opportunity at that point to say you meant plan but you doubled down. So you're clearly not here to have an honest and intelligent discussion. And if I didn't know it already, your deflecting questions and double spaced blurts prove it too.

But apparently you are ok with these statements president Obama said that were lies:

If you like your plan, you can keep it.
If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor.
Families will save 25% on their insurance.

How do you explain all of that which turned out to be untrue?

Why are you still supporting the ACA?

Did you look up Saul Alinsky's "8 Rules"?

Are you OK with the fact that the then Obama said he favors a single payer system and would like to phase out employer insurance over a period of years? You can easily find that on youtube.

Lime, I'm not responsible for the delusions swirling around in your head. this thread is about the fact that "if Obamcare is so bad, why cant republicans come up with a plan let alone a better one." Here's a crazy idea, why not address the thread topic.

Vern · Jan 29, 2017

Born Free said:
They don't need a plan, remember this is Obamacare, just let it implode, then the Dems that created this monstrous failure called Obamacare will come screaming with their new plan. Whatever the hell that is, but this time around they have to get approval from the Pubs.

I'm sure republicans appreciate your excuse making in their regard but that doesn't address the fact that they said they'd have a plan. And they don't. And I cant believe 3 years in you still think it'll implode. You need to occasionally update the narratives you obediently believe. Do you still think President Obama was born in Kenya? just wondering.

limelight66 · Jan 29, 2017

Vern said:
limelight, you said "insurance". I called you out. You had an opportunity at that point to say you meant plan but you doubled down. So you're clearly not here to have an honest and intelligent discussion. And if I didn't know it already, your deflecting questions and double spaced blurts prove it too.

Lime, I'm not responsible for the delusions swirling around in your head. this thread is about the fact that "if Obamcare is so bad, why cant republicans come up with a plan let alone a better one." Here's a crazy idea, why not address the thread topic.

Actually Vern, I said "insurance" only in my first post here so saying I doubled down isn't true. No need to keep calling me out on a simple mistake that I have corrected.

Secondly, I did address the topic in my first post.

As I stated earlier I wish they would let us know what their plan is. Now in Trump's defense, perhaps they're actually trying to be methodical about it.....unlike how the Obama administration and Nancy Pelosi were with Obamacare. It is better to fix something right the first time than having to repair it later because of recklessness.

The best thing is for it to be abolished, which is what I would like to see. More government never solves anything that could be left to the private sector. And more government always results in less liberty for someone. I know you're going to come back with "but millions will be left without insurance". Well no one is denied medical treatment because of their inability to pay. A very simple assistance program for those who can not afford it would be less expensive. That would allow those than need the assistance to search for their own provider and plan based on their own needs (that's freedom btw). Allowing us to buy insurance across state lines would also help. Competition is the key to lower prices and better products and services.

You stated Obamacare is "working and working quite well". But considering the fact that it has forced insurance rates to go so high that it forces many people to sign up for it is not my definition of "working". That is coercion. You must also take into consideration how much the states themselves are kicking in for their citizens. The debt will be unsustainable.

I've asked you to check out Saul Alinsky's rules. Please do. I'm not trying to get you into a "gotcha" corner or anything. But it is an eye opener that I wish everyone would read.

If Obamacare is so bad....

jaeger19

jaeger19

jaeger19

Visbek

Stuck In The Circle

Visbek

Stuck In The Circle

Media_Truth

Vern

back from Vegas

Urethra Franklin

Folle

Vern

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Absentglare

fmw

jaeger19

Vern

back from Vegas

Vern

back from Vegas

fmw

Vern

back from Vegas

Fenton

Vern

back from Vegas

Fenton

Vern

back from Vegas

limelight66

Born Free

Vern

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Vern

back from Vegas

limelight66