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If Obamacare is so bad....

fmw said:
Sadly it is in the insurance business. It manages how the insurance industry works. It defines what kind of policies a company can offer and makes it illegal for it to offer any others. It operates the only authorized retail channel for individual policies. And obviously all of that was a mistake.
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oh fmw, once again you are simply posting words that have no basis in fact in a desperate attempt to respond. All conservatives (and conservative likes posters) do it. Read this slow, regulating the insurance market is not the same as "in the insurance market". And Obamacare only mandates the minimum coverage. To "misparaphrase" that as "illegal to offer any others" is just more dishonesty.

but you saved the best for last with "only authorized retail channel for individual policies". total delusion or total dishonesty, doesn't matter which one. You can still call the insurance company directly. The bonus is you don't have to answer a bunch of questions and then wait to find out if you can get coverage. And you can still call a broker. geez fmw, I'm sure you're a nice guy but you need to try to understand why you are so willing to choose narrative over integrity. fmw, don't end up like this guy. He posted the ridiculous and intentional falsehood that his insurance company dropped him. You can only be dropped for non payment or fraud. I point that out to him so he doubles down (in double spaced format no less) that "nuh uh, I really did get dropped and the proof is my friends did too".

limelight66 said:
Well Vern, I was indeed dropped by my previous plan and I'm not the only one. Friends I've talked to who were also with Blue Cross had their plans dropped as well.

How do you explain the drastic in increase in premiums when Obama said families were going to save about 25%?

Did you ever look up Saul Alinsky's 8 rules?
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Now he's trying to slip in "plan dropped" but its too late, he said "nuh uh" after I told him he could only be dropped by non payment or fraud. fmw, don't be this guy.
 
Vern said:
well first, let me congratulate Chuckie on finally figuring out what the thread is about. Anyhoo, I posted exactly what I found. And I posted the blurbs. Lets settle this once and for all. Post the republican plan and explain why the "repeal and delay" nonsense is being bandied about. thanks in advance.
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No thanks...I'll leave that to someone else. As I've said, if not here then elsewhere, I don't care about a "plan". I just want the turd to be flushed.
 
limelight66 said:
It doesn't need to be repealed and replaced. It needs to be abolished.

I'm 50 years old and in very good health. I was dropped by my insurance in 2016. My agent found another plan for me which costs almost 50% more and has less coverage than my previous plan.

Obama said we could keep our plan. He lied.
He said our costs were going to go down. He lied.

I have a close friend whose family also got dropped. He's married with three children. The cheapest plan his agent could find cost over $3000 a month (that's a starting salary form some people). What working family can afford that? So he had no choice but to sign up for Obama Care. Now the State is kicking in $1800 a month for their family. $1800 a month! Who is paying for that? How many other families is the state kicking in $1500 to $2000 a month? How long can the state sustain that kind of assistance for it's citizens?

Now with their shiny new Obama Care plan they are not covered at the Mayo...unless they move to the area. Again, Obama lied.

What happened to them is exactly what Obama and his lackeys wanted: For private insurance to become so expensive that no one can afford it, forcing us all to go on Obama Care. There's a word for that....it's called coercion and you Obama Care lovers don't even know it. If this had been a republican plan you would all be out for blood but to you folks he's the golden boy and anything he signs is sacred. Please look up Saul Alynsky and check out his "8 Rules".

As Ronald Reagan said, "government is not the solution, it's the problem". Obama Care is a government takeover. Obama is on record stating he would like to see employer (private) insurance phased out and moving to a single payer system. That would mean putting a private industry out of business. The early Americans fought for our independence from the British to be free of a government with too much power. it's as if we are moving from the right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" to "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need".

Regarding a plan by the republicans, I want to hear something from them too. I would like the entire Obama Care plan to go away. And for the uninsured? Maybe some kind of 'insurance assistance' program that allows them to shop around for their own plan that fits their needs. It would cost less, not to mention take less people and less red tape to operate.
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There is lies one of the many reasons that ObamaCare is so unpopular. It was sold the 'rubes in fly over country' on a pack of bold faced lies. Any wonder why the coastal elites (which includes NYC and DC) are so unpopular with the rest of the country? That's one of a long litany of reasons all justified, all legitimate.
 
Mycroft said:
Your problem is you are using Google. You should NEVER use google if you want unbiased search results. I did the same search with Bing and got this:

GOP Has Plan To Replace Obamacare ... - thefederalist.com
House Republicans Unveil Plan to Replace Obamacare
Republicans agree on ObamaCare repeal – the replacement is ...
GOP plan to replace Obamacare gives big tax break to the ...
GOP resistance grows to Obamacare repeal without ...
Republicans have a plan to replace Obamacare, and its ...

(some of these links go to places that are against the GOP...but they all seem to agree that the GOP have some kind of plan)

That's just the first 6 hits...there's more.
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I may have to give up Google then.
 
joG said:
Oh don't worry about that dishonest ploy. Trying to shift responsibilities to others is normal for liberals.
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Quoted for truth.

jaeger19 said:
Except its not a fact that obamacare is better than no obamacare. Particularly in the minds of voters.

As perotista pointed out... polling shows more americans think Obamacare has hurt them than helped them.. and the vast majority think it has little or no effect on them.
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jimbo said:
Obamacare is not the Republicans to fix. The Democrats own it, the Democrats passed it in the dead of night without any Republican support and without reading it. The Republicans have proposed a fix. Repeal it.

What is the Democrat plan to fix this monstrosity?
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Furthering on your theme, should the congressional Democrats put up a fight to keep ObamaCare as is, I'd be inclined to say fine, let the premiums and deductibles continue to go up at the alarming rates that they are. Let ObamaCare completely implode and collapse.

If any constituent come crying or complaining, I'd just layout the facts. ObamaCare is 100% Democrat invention, with passed with only Democrat votes. the present Democrats in congress are putting up such a fight that we Republicans can't through the changes that need to be made. If you have an ObamaCare issue, problem or complaint, see your Democrat representative and let them know.

ObamaCare's unpopularity and implosion is an easy cudgel with which to beat Democrats with. Hell, they volunteer for the beating by shoving it up the nation's ass they way they did. Not so sure that I'd pass up such an easy cudgel with which to beat them with.

If you let the Democrats off too easy, they'll not ever remember their lesson that bipartisanship in legislation is protection against such beatings. When they come to power again, control all three branches of government again, which they will at some point in time, they'll just shove similarly bad legislation up the nation's ass again. This lesson has got to have some longevity to it.

If you get sick and go broke because of ObamaCare deductibles you have to pay for your care or you go broke because of what the medical care costs are without ObamaCare, you are still broke in the end, so what difference does it make?
 
Praxas said:
Then why didn't the Republicans make any changes? Outside Hillary and Obama with a Dem congress, the Republicans have done Jack and **** about healthcare costs or availability. Republicans like to bitch about the ACA, but haven't done anything to do better. Now they have their shot and if their solution is just to kick 20 million of insurance, you bet there will be a backlash for them come 2018 mid-terms and rightfully so.
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I would agree that if their only plan is to terminate the ACA it will have a political backlash and rightfully so. As much turmoil as this has caused they cant just say...never mind...delete it all.
 
Mycroft said:
No thanks...I'll leave that to someone else. As I've said, if not here then elsewhere, I don't care about a "plan". I just want the turd to be flushed.
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oh that's right, I keep forgetting that conservatives think this is a chatroom.
 
Mycroft said:
Government mandated one size fits all satisfies nobody. That's why Obamacare is destined for the toilet.
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That doesn't even remotely answer my question.

When you're able to do more than recite platitudes, let us know.
 
eohrnberger said:
There is lies one of the many reasons that ObamaCare is so unpopular. It was sold the 'rubes in fly over country' on a pack of bold faced lies. Any wonder why the coastal elites (which includes NYC and DC) are so unpopular with the rest of the country? That's one of a long litany of reasons all justified, all legitimate.
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oh eohrn, he says he was "dropped" by his insurance. Why do you obediently agree with people who dishonestly whine about Obamacare. What is it about conservativism that makes you think its okay to have no integrity.
 
eohrnberger said:
There is lies one of the many reasons that ObamaCare is so unpopular.
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Sorry, but I'm pretty sure limelight is the one who is deeply misinformed.

For example, I dialed in 2 adults, 3 dependent kids into Healthcare.gov for New Jersey, an expensive state. The Gold plans are $1600/month. And that's for 2017.

Meanwhile, back in the real world: The ACA is not actually that unpopular, and doesn't seem to have been a major factor in the election. Popularity is split, 45/49. That's not much different than Medicaid, which was not very popular when it first started, and is now one of the most popular government programs.

Oh, and 77% of people on ACA plans are satisfied, as are 88% of Medicaid recipients.
 
Vern said:
oh that's right, I keep forgetting that conservatives think this is a chatroom.
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Like most people here, I pick and choose my debates and my input. I don't spring into action when someone makes demands.
 
Visbek said:
That doesn't even remotely answer my question.

When you're able to do more than recite platitudes, let us know.
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Your question? What question? The post I responded to had no question. I responded to the total post.
 
Vern said:
oh fmw, once again you are simply posting words that have no basis in fact in a desperate attempt to respond. All conservatives (and conservative likes posters) do it. Read this slow, regulating the insurance market is not the same as "in the insurance market". And Obamacare only mandates the minimum coverage. To "misparaphrase" that as "illegal to offer any others" is just more dishonesty.

but you saved the best for last with "only authorized retail channel for individual policies". total delusion or total dishonesty, doesn't matter which one. You can still call the insurance company directly. The bonus is you don't have to answer a bunch of questions and then wait to find out if you can get coverage. And you can still call a broker. geez fmw, I'm sure you're a nice guy but you need to try to understand why you are so willing to choose narrative over integrity. fmw, don't end up like this guy. He posted the ridiculous and intentional falsehood that his insurance company dropped him. You can only be dropped for non payment or fraud. I point that out to him so he doubles down (in double spaced format no less) that "nuh uh, I really did get dropped and the proof is my friends did too".



Now he's trying to slip in "plan dropped" but its too late, he said "nuh uh" after I told him he could only be dropped by non payment or fraud. fmw, don't be this guy.
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So we disagree. Best of luck.
 
eohrnberger said:
If you get sick and go broke because of ObamaCare deductibles you have to pay for your care or you go broke because of what the medical care costs are without ObamaCare, you are still broke in the end, so what difference does it make?
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Oh eohrn, your conservative masters appreciate your obedience. But eorhn, you should stick to the vague whining about Obamacare. Specifics don’t help the lying conservative agenda. The difference is the person with coverage will get the bypass operation and get billed for the deductible. The person without coverage won’t get the bypass operation. Hey I know, lets use the magic conservative example of the hospital doing a 100,000 dollar operation on credit vs someone with coverage. One guy gets billed 100,0000. The other guy gets billed 6,000 or 12,000.

Now eohrn, you’re in a thread concerning the fact that republicans have no plan to replace Obamacare. If Obamacare is so bad, why cant they come up with a plan let alone a better one? Just so you know, whining about Obamacare and me doesn't address the thread topic.
 
Mycroft said:
Your question? What question? The post I responded to had no question. I responded to the total post.
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No, you did not answer my question at all. Here it is again.


Be SPECIFIC about what doesn't work in the ACA. E.g. How did it screw up:

• Guaranteed issue
• Guaranteed coverage for preventative medicine and screenings
• Medicare savings of hundreds of billions of dollars per year
• Medicare incentives
• Exchanges (note: after the initial problems, they work very well now)
• Subsidized insurance for people who can't afford it
• The Medicare expansion
• The closure of the Medicare Part D "Donut Hole"
• Allowing approval of generic biologics
• The end of lifetime care limits
• Ratepayer rebates when an insurer spends too much on administration
• Rate review (insurers must notify groups if rates go up more than 10%)
 
Visbek said:
No, you did not answer my question at all. Here it is again.


Be SPECIFIC about what doesn't work in the ACA. E.g. How did it screw up:

• Guaranteed issue
• Guaranteed coverage for preventative medicine and screenings
• Medicare savings of hundreds of billions of dollars per year
• Medicare incentives
• Exchanges (note: after the initial problems, they work very well now)
• Subsidized insurance for people who can't afford it
• The Medicare expansion
• The closure of the Medicare Part D "Donut Hole"
• Allowing approval of generic biologics
• The end of lifetime care limits
• Ratepayer rebates when an insurer spends too much on administration
• Rate review (insurers must notify groups if rates go up more than 10%)
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That's not a question. That's a demand.

btw, I don't hop when someone demands. Get used to that, eh?
 
Mycroft said:
That's not a question. That's a demand.
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:roll:

Ok then. Let me rephrase it as a series of questions.


How did the ACA screw up....
• Guaranteed issue?

• Guaranteed coverage for preventative medicine and screenings?

• Medicare savings of hundreds of billions of dollars per year?

• Medicare incentives?

• Exchanges (note: after the initial problems, they work very well now)?

• Subsidized insurance for people who can't afford it?

• The Medicare expansion?

• The closure of the Medicare Part D "Donut Hole"?

• Allowing approval of generic biologics?

• The end of lifetime care limits?

• Ratepayer rebates when an insurer spends too much on administration?

• Rate review (insurers must notify groups if rates go up more than 10%)?
 
Visbek said:
:roll:

Ok then. Let me rephrase it as a series of questions.


How did the ACA screw up....
• Guaranteed issue?

• Guaranteed coverage for preventative medicine and screenings?

• Medicare savings of hundreds of billions of dollars per year?

• Medicare incentives?

• Exchanges (note: after the initial problems, they work very well now)?

• Subsidized insurance for people who can't afford it?

• The Medicare expansion?

• The closure of the Medicare Part D "Donut Hole"?

• Allowing approval of generic biologics?

• The end of lifetime care limits?

• Ratepayer rebates when an insurer spends too much on administration?

• Rate review (insurers must notify groups if rates go up more than 10%)?
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I already answered that.

Mycroft said:
Government mandated one size fits all satisfies nobody. That's why Obamacare is destined for the toilet.
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If you don't like my answer, too bad. Get over it and, while you are at it, get over your own self.
 
Mycroft said:
I already answered that.



If you don't like my answer, too bad. Get over it and, while you are at it, get over your own self.
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Trumpcare wil be far worse than the ACA. There is no doubt about it and the GOP will have a very hard time getting over that.
 
iguanaman said:
Trumpcare wil be far worse than the ACA. There is no doubt about it and the GOP will have a very hard time getting over that.
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"Trumpcare"??

What's that?
 
Vern said:
Why can’t republicans come up with a better plan? How about a plan? Yea, they’ve had 6 years. We’ve had 3 full years of the exchanges. Certainly there is enough data from that alone to help come up with a plan. it doesn't even have to be a better plan. They can just lie that its better and their base wont hold them accountable. Their base just needs something to repeat over and over. I'm thinking something along the lines of “sure it covers fewer people and costs more but its better because there are no death panels”.

Certainly even some conservatives have to start to wonder how "repeal and replace" got repealed and replaced with "repeal and delay"?
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I agree with you there but there is no denying that Obamacare is bad.
 
Mycroft said:
"Trumpcare"??

What's that?
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That is the name of whatever is left of our HC system after Trump gets thru with it. It is the GOP version of the ACA and they will OWN it lock stock and barrel. Soon the people will find out that unlike Obama, Trump does not CARE.
 
Moderate Right said:
I agree with you there but there is no denying that Obamacare is bad.
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Not as bad as it was before the ACA and not nearly as bad as it will be afterwards. Nothing like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
 
Visbek said:
Premiums did not grow as fast for several years after the ACA was passed and started taking effect.
."
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Right... and now we pretty much know that it was because of the poor economy and not because of the ACA.

Incorrect. ACA has guaranteed issue, so they can't refuse to cover people with pre-existing conditions, and can't refuse to cover something because they were pre-existing.
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Yada yada. They can still make costs prohibitive so its unaffordable. I have relatives that had pre existing conditions before. They still got covered.... at a price. that still occurs.

yes, and that was not a good thing, because those people had no health insurance at all.
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Yep... and in general did fine. Because the vast number aren't sick.

20,000 per year.
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Exactly.

Incorrect. ACA explicitly requires insurers to cover preventive care, for adults and kids. E.g.
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no correct. Heck... the worse for preventative care is Medicaid.. a government program. If a person has back pain...and they get into physical therapy within 18 or so days of onset.. (and pain that doesn't go below the knee. and a couple of indicators). there is a 95% confidence level that their back pain won't become chronic.

Medicaid in two of the states I do work in takes 30 days to authorize therapy.

just one of many examples of how they really don't cover preventative care or put roadblocks in front of it.

So did I. It was an expensive PITA. I wound up with crappy coverage at a high cost, and my insurer repeatedly tried not to cover conditions. I'm one of the lucky ones, in that I was able to get it at all. As a freelancer, not getting coverage would have been a major issue.
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And that hasn't changed.

A straight-up repeal would kill coverage for over 20 million Americans. AFAIK 2.6 million people signed up after the election. Medicare's costs would jump by $800 billion. Guaranteed issue, gone. The industry would be in a furore, because they know that going back to pre-ACA would be a disaster. Ryan is already backing down from Repeal & Delay, and says the goal now is to do Repeal & Replace "concurrently."
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First..20 million people is a drop in the bucket. Particularly since many of them don't use their healthcare insurance nor really need it at this time. People don't really care that Medicare's costs go up. Add it to the list of other costs that have gone up for the government.
Guaranteed issue doesn't matter that much to the vast majority of folks that have insurance through and employer or medicare. or Medicaid.
The aca tried to fix problems for basically a very small percentage of americans. In some cases it helped. It more cases it probably hurt.

Killing it will have little public fall out.

that's simply the facts.
 
Moderate Right said:
I agree with you there but there is no denying that Obamacare is bad.
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MR, I think it is very easy to deny. As Greenbeard said
Greenbeard said:
Repeal-and-delay acknowledges two facts:

1. Obamacare is better than no Obamacare
2. The GOP has no functional alternative to Obamacare

So it stays on the books.
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again, "and delay" proves Obamacare is better than no Obamacare. And the GOP's inability to come up with any plan let alone a better one after 6 years tells you Obamacare must be pretty good. The republicans own words and actions tell you all you need to know. so please explain how Obamacare is bad starting with

"sure, Obamacare covers 20 million people, lowers the deficit and increases the quality of care but its bad because......
 
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