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Does Trump's lying ever bother his supporters?

Casca XV said:
Trump is occasionally a flamboyant braggart, but I don't knot of a single time where he has deliberately knowingly lied. Please tell me if you know of one?

Keep in mind it is an easy thing to name a half dozen times where Hillary or Obama knowingly deliberately lied?
Click to expand...

Please do. And none of this "you can keep your plan" crap, because that was literally awarded lie of the year in 2013. I am not at all concerned about knowing how politicians who I have supported have deceived me. That is why Trump supporters scare me. They eat his lies like they are Gospel.

This newspaper compiled a handy list...

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/...orized-database-of-false-things.html#analysis
 
CriticalThought said:
Aside from the "you can keep your plan" thing, what specifically did he lie about?
Click to expand...

Benghazi
Shovel ready jobs
Arab Spring
Found out about Hillary's server on TV............ after sending emails through the server?
Lied about the JV team and who he was referring to.
Fast & Furious
Hiring a hack to write the ACA who later bragged about fooling people?

Can go on all day long.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Benghazi
Shovel ready jobs
Arab Spring
Found out about Hillary's server on TV............ after sending emails through the server?
Lied about the JV team and who he was referring to.
Fast & Furious
Hiring a hack to write the ACA who later bragged about fooling people?

Can go on all day long.
Click to expand...

Benghazi? Arab Spring? I get the others but what am I missing with those?
 
CriticalThought said:
Trump is on another scale when it comes to lying.
Click to expand...

I disagree. Lying suggests an intent to deceive. While Trump has written and uttered false and inaccurate things, I think they were mostly from ignorance, opinion and ego rather than an intent to deceive. Obviously, he often speaks without thinking things through and he is sometimes wrong but I think calling it lying is pushing things a bit. He says what is on his mind whether he should or should not.

"how do you plead?" "Not guilty, your honor." That is lying in the true sense of the word, even though it is acceptable lying. Trump's falsehoods aren't the acceptable kind.
 
Well then, from what I have read so far in this thread the answer to the question has been answered clearly, no, trump lying does not bother his supporters. Does this surprise Anyone here?
 
Casper said:
Well then, from what I have read so far in this thread the answer to the question has been answered clearly, no, trump lying does not bother his supporters. Does this surprise Anyone here?
Click to expand...

No. Partisanship trumps everything else.
 
fmw said:
No. Partisanship trumps everything else.
Click to expand...

For Partisans it does, for the rest of us we think they are all crazy and dangerous.
 
CriticalThought said:
Please do. And none of this "you can keep your plan" crap, because that was literally awarded lie of the year in 2013. I am not at all concerned about knowing how politicians who I have supported have deceived me. That is why Trump supporters scare me. They eat his lies like they are Gospel.

This newspaper compiled a handy list...

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/...orized-database-of-false-things.html#analysis
Click to expand...

Your own link actually proves my point, Trump sometime get thing wrong and he exaggerates the same way almost everyone does. But there is no evidence of a single calculated lie.

Sniper fire, Sir Edmond Hillary, Benghazi video, everything about Obamacare, money given to Iran are examples of flat out deliberate lies from Hillary or Obama.
 
Casca XV said:
Your own link actually proves my point, Trump sometime get thing wrong and he exaggerates the same way almost everyone does. But there is no evidence of a single calculated lie.

Sniper fire, Sir Edmond Hillary, Benghazi video, everything about Obamacare, money given to Iran are examples of flat out deliberate lies from Hillary or Obama.
Click to expand...

This idea that Hillary or Obama are the same level of liar that Trump is is utterly baseless. I am not defending their lies and distortions. I don't have to to claim Trump is obviously worse to any non-partisan. Trump lies even when he can be proven false on the spot. He repeatedly denied having said "I guess so" to supporting the Iraq war on Howard Stern's show. Even when its pointed out to him that its recorded and played repeatedly on air hundreds of times during the campaign. This was pointed out to him during a live, national televised debate and he called them liars. LIARS! The rich irony. He stuck to his guns for weeks saying he saw muslims cheering about 9-11 in New Jersey. It was demonstrably false and pointed out to him. Worse, when he is wrong, he doesn't admit he was wrong. He is STILL claiming the Central Park 5 are guilty. This is incredible. Merely because it would make him wrong to admit they aren't, he won't.

Barack Obama False and Pants on fire statements: 16%
Barack Obama's file | PolitiFact

Clinton False and Pants on Fire Statements: 12%
Hillary Clinton's file | PolitiFact

Donald Trump False and Pants on Fire Statements: 51%
Donald Trump's file | PolitiFact
 
Casca XV said:
Your own link actually proves my point, Trump sometime get thing wrong and he exaggerates the same way almost everyone does. But there is no evidence of a single calculated lie.

Sniper fire, Sir Edmond Hillary, Benghazi video, everything about Obamacare, money given to Iran are examples of flat out deliberate lies from Hillary or Obama.
Click to expand...


"DONALD TRUMP

""The @nytimes sent a letter to their subscribers apologizing for their BAD coverage of me.""

""The @nytimes states today that DJT believes ‘more countries should acquire nuclear weapons.’ How dishonest are they. I never said this!"

""Beyonce and Jay Z, I like them, I like them ... I get bigger crowds than they do. It's true. I get far bigger crowds."

"The media "never show crowds."

""Twitter, Google and Facebook are burying the FBI criminal investigation of Clinton. Very dishonest media!"

""I've gotten to see the commercials that they did on you. And I've gotten to see some of the most vicious commercials I've ever seen of Michelle Obama talking about you, Hillary."

"Says Sidney Blumenthal wrote that the Benghazi attack was "almost certainly preventable. Clinton was in charge of the State Department, and it failed to protect U.S. personnel and an American consulate in Libya." (This was from a Russian propaganda site)
"Don't believe those phony numbers when you hear 4.9 and 5 percent unemployment. The number's probably 28, 29, as high as 35. In fact, I even heard recently 42 percent.""

President Barack Obama "wants to take in 250,000 (people) from Syria."
— Donald Trump

"Says after Hillary Clinton helped a man accused of raping a 12-year-old, "she's seen laughing on two separate occasions, laughing at the girl who was raped.""

""NATO is opening up a major terror division. ... I'm sure I'm not going to get credit for it, but that was largely because of what I was saying and my criticism of NATO."

""In her campaign for president, Hillary Clinton has received $100 million in contributions from Wall Street and hedge funds.""

"I watched in Jersey City, N.J., where thousands and thousands of people were cheering" as the World Trade Center collapsed."

"The federal government is sending refugees to states with governors who are "Republicans, not to the Democrats.""

"The Trans-Pacific Partnership "was designed for China to come in, as they always do, through the back door and totally take advantage of everyone."

""I never said that" Marco Rubio was Mark Zuckerberg’s personal senator."

"Says Bernie Sanders is going to "tax you people at 90 percent.""

"DONALD TRUMP
The number of illegal immigrants in the United States is "30 million, it could be 34 million."

""The last quarter, it was just announced, our gross domestic product … was below zero. Who ever heard of this? It's never below zero."

"Says President Barack Obama’s recent New York fundraising trip "cost between $25 million and $50 million.""

"After the U.S.-led military alliance ejected Saddam Hussein’s forces from Kuwait in 1991, the Kuwaitis "never paid us.""

""The people that went to school with (Barack Obama), they never saw him, they don't know who he is."

This guy talks out of his ass, makes up numbers when he doesn't have a clue, spews things he must have read on conspiracy theorist message boards, and doesn't see a damn thing wrong with that. Sad!
 
vash1012 said:
"DONALD TRUMP

""The @nytimes sent a letter to their subscribers apologizing for their BAD coverage of me.""

""The @nytimes states today that DJT believes ‘more countries should acquire nuclear weapons.’ How dishonest are they. I never said this!"

""Beyonce and Jay Z, I like them, I like them ... I get bigger crowds than they do. It's true. I get far bigger crowds."

"The media "never show crowds."

""Twitter, Google and Facebook are burying the FBI criminal investigation of Clinton. Very dishonest media!"

""I've gotten to see the commercials that they did on you. And I've gotten to see some of the most vicious commercials I've ever seen of Michelle Obama talking about you, Hillary."

"Says Sidney Blumenthal wrote that the Benghazi attack was "almost certainly preventable. Clinton was in charge of the State Department, and it failed to protect U.S. personnel and an American consulate in Libya." (This was from a Russian propaganda site)
"Don't believe those phony numbers when you hear 4.9 and 5 percent unemployment. The number's probably 28, 29, as high as 35. In fact, I even heard recently 42 percent.""

President Barack Obama "wants to take in 250,000 (people) from Syria."
— Donald Trump

"Says after Hillary Clinton helped a man accused of raping a 12-year-old, "she's seen laughing on two separate occasions, laughing at the girl who was raped.""

""NATO is opening up a major terror division. ... I'm sure I'm not going to get credit for it, but that was largely because of what I was saying and my criticism of NATO."

""In her campaign for president, Hillary Clinton has received $100 million in contributions from Wall Street and hedge funds.""

"I watched in Jersey City, N.J., where thousands and thousands of people were cheering" as the World Trade Center collapsed."

"The federal government is sending refugees to states with governors who are "Republicans, not to the Democrats.""

"The Trans-Pacific Partnership "was designed for China to come in, as they always do, through the back door and totally take advantage of everyone."

""I never said that" Marco Rubio was Mark Zuckerberg’s personal senator."

"Says Bernie Sanders is going to "tax you people at 90 percent.""

"DONALD TRUMP
The number of illegal immigrants in the United States is "30 million, it could be 34 million."

""The last quarter, it was just announced, our gross domestic product … was below zero. Who ever heard of this? It's never below zero."

"Says President Barack Obama’s recent New York fundraising trip "cost between $25 million and $50 million.""

"After the U.S.-led military alliance ejected Saddam Hussein’s forces from Kuwait in 1991, the Kuwaitis "never paid us.""

""The people that went to school with (Barack Obama), they never saw him, they don't know who he is."

This guy talks out of his ass, makes up numbers when he doesn't have a clue, spews things he must have read on conspiracy theorist message boards, and doesn't see a damn thing wrong with that. Sad!
Click to expand...

Feel Free to specifically explain how any one of those is an actual lie. Just one.
 
Casca XV said:
Feel Free to specifically explain how any one of those is an actual lie. Just one.
Click to expand...

They are all explicitly lies or at least ignorant statements. The reasons why they are wrong are detailed in hundreds of articles all along the internet. I shouldn't have to search for you, but you only asked for one so here goes:

""Beyonce and Jay Z, I like them, I like them ... I get bigger crowds than they do. It's true. I get far bigger crowds."

"For the sake of argument, let’s take Trump at his word on the size of his crowds. (We do this full-well knowing Trump is guilty of exaggerating the size of his crowds.)

"We go to Oklahoma, we have 25,000 people," Trump said in August. "We had 21,000 people in Dallas, we had 35,000 people in Mobile, Alabama. We get these massive crowds. Look, if (Clinton) had 500 people I would be surprised."
Anyway, if you take Trump as his word, that’s an average of 27,000 for those three big rallies.

That’s a good draw. But it’s not Jay Z/Beyonce level.

Jay Z last toured in 2014 with Beyonce to promote her self-titled album and his Magna Carta Holy Grail. The couple played 16 shows across North America, and one in Paris, raking in over $100 million in ticket sales. All were sold out and averaged a crowd size of 45,700 per night, according to data assembled by Billboard. The biggest one-night performance drew a crowd of nearly 53,000 while their two-night Paris show topped 147,000."

In closing argument, Donald Trump wrongly says he outdraws Beyonce, Jay Z | PolitiFact
 
Casca XV said:
Your own link actually proves my point, Trump sometime get thing wrong and he exaggerates the same way almost everyone does. But there is no evidence of a single calculated lie.

Sniper fire, Sir Edmond Hillary, Benghazi video, everything about Obamacare, money given to Iran are examples of flat out deliberate lies from Hillary or Obama.
Click to expand...

34 lies in the first debate with Clinton...

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/...alse-things-at-first-presidential-debate.html
 
vash1012 said:
This idea that Hillary or Obama are the same level of liar that Trump is is utterly baseless. I am not defending their lies and distortions. I don't have to to claim Trump is obviously worse to any non-partisan. Trump lies even when he can be proven false on the spot. He repeatedly denied having said "I guess so" to supporting the Iraq war on Howard Stern's show. Even when its pointed out to him that its recorded and played repeatedly on air hundreds of times during the campaign. This was pointed out to him during a live, national televised debate and he called them liars. LIARS! The rich irony. He stuck to his guns for weeks saying he saw muslims cheering about 9-11 in New Jersey. It was demonstrably false and pointed out to him. Worse, when he is wrong, he doesn't admit he was wrong. He is STILL claiming the Central Park 5 are guilty. This is incredible. Merely because it would make him wrong to admit they aren't, he won't.

Barack Obama False and Pants on fire statements: 16%
Barack Obama's file | PolitiFact

Clinton False and Pants on Fire Statements: 12%
Hillary Clinton's file | PolitiFact

Donald Trump False and Pants on Fire Statements: 51%
Donald Trump's file | PolitiFact
Click to expand...

Politifact? why not just use BuzzFeed or CNN as a source.

I heard the audio of the Howard Stern show. There are several other people who say and documents showing he was against the Iraq war during that time.

I remember during that time period myself seeing news reports of Muslims all over including in the US celebrating 911. The ones I saw were in Michigan. Worst case Trump saw some of the same and mistook it for NJ.

About the Central Park 5: evidence of a 6th doesn't mean the first 5 were innocent.
 
vash1012 said:
They are all explicitly lies or at least ignorant statements. The reasons why they are wrong are detailed in hundreds of articles all along the internet. I shouldn't have to search for you, but you only asked for one so here goes:

""Beyonce and Jay Z, I like them, I like them ... I get bigger crowds than they do. It's true. I get far bigger crowds."

"For the sake of argument, let’s take Trump at his word on the size of his crowds. (We do this full-well knowing Trump is guilty of exaggerating the size of his crowds.)

"We go to Oklahoma, we have 25,000 people," Trump said in August. "We had 21,000 people in Dallas, we had 35,000 people in Mobile, Alabama. We get these massive crowds. Look, if (Clinton) had 500 people I would be surprised."
Anyway, if you take Trump as his word, that’s an average of 27,000 for those three big rallies.

That’s a good draw. But it’s not Jay Z/Beyonce level.

Jay Z last toured in 2014 with Beyonce to promote her self-titled album and his Magna Carta Holy Grail. The couple played 16 shows across North America, and one in Paris, raking in over $100 million in ticket sales. All were sold out and averaged a crowd size of 45,700 per night, according to data assembled by Billboard. The biggest one-night performance drew a crowd of nearly 53,000 while their two-night Paris show topped 147,000."

In closing argument, Donald Trump wrongly says he outdraws Beyonce, Jay Z | PolitiFact
Click to expand...

Policifact is as bad a crap source as BuzzFeed..... Nice try.....Trump was talking about the crowd Hillary got when she had those two celebretards on stage with her. It was still less than his average size campaign rally.

Polifact is dishonestly changing that to concert crowds they had in Europe.

With out posting a link I just showed Trump as correct and your source as a total fraud.

That is checkmate....you just lost this one by a knock out.
 
Casca XV said:
Politifact? why not just use BuzzFeed or CNN as a source.

I heard the audio of the Howard Stern show. There are several other people who say and documents showing he was against the Iraq war during that time.

I remember during that time period myself seeing news reports of Muslims all over including in the US celebrating 911. The ones I saw were in Michigan. Worst case Trump saw some of the same and mistook it for NJ.

About the Central Park 5: evidence of a 6th doesn't mean the first 5 were innocent.
Click to expand...

Why ask for proof if you won't accept any source as legitimate if it disagrees with you?

Where are these documents? I have never seen them. Even if he did change his mind later, he is still shouting that he NEVER supported the Iraq war even when he clearly did at least for a period of time.

I'm sure there were "news reports" of Muslims cheering. I don't doubt that. Have you been on the internet long? There's an article from patrioteaglefirearmsrgud.com or repubsarefascists.com about almost anything. Credible media sources did not run any articles about this supposed event. Even Fox News didn't run any articles about this occuring and does not support a conclusion that it ever occured. Trump was obviously conflating images he saw from either fake news articles or videos from the Gaza Strip and Iran, but he won't back track.

Carson backs off support of Trump's controversial claim US Muslims cheered on 9/11 | Fox News
There were not 'thousands' of Muslims in New Jersey cheering 9/11 | Fox News

Trump has 0 reason to believe the Central park 5 weren't innocent and the only reason he wouldn't change his stance on this in light of new evidence is because he is pathologically opposed to admitting he was wrong, even when its totally understandable you would be wrong, since everyone involved in the case was wrong too.
 
The voters are the ones who determined which candidate lied more and Hillary lost.
 
MaggieD said:
There's probably no politician on earth I'd use as a role model for my child. They all obfuscate and tell us what we want to hear. Trump is no different. The liberal media is simply targeting him because they made absolute fools of themselves.

Doesn't bother me anymore than Obama's stupid stuff bothered HIS fans.
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I knew we would agree on something someday..
 
CriticalThought said:
Trump is on another scale when it comes to lying. Every politician lies to some extent, but not generally on things that can be proven verifiably wrong or that many on their own side can't get behind. Politicians will often lie to cover their ass but not usually to intentionally make themselves look like an ass. Trump demonstrates very little integrity in what he says.

Do you think that occasionally bothers his supporters? Would they use him as a role model for their own children?
Click to expand...

Everybody lies. Whether it matters in this case depends on the scale of the lie. I'm not aware of any significant Trump lie such as "there are weapons of mass destruction" or "you can keep your doctor". Can you give an example? From what I've seen, it's his truthfulness that makes him so unpopular with the traitorous democratic establishment...
 
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