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What do you think? Are the Greens going to be the new ‘Center-Left’ party?

eohrnberger

eohrnberger

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It's pretty clear that Obama, Pelosi, Reid, DWS, and Brazile have dragged the previously center left Democrats further to the left. I’ve been observing for 4 years now (or there abouts) wondering if the Democrats are going to follow Obama off the cliff like lemmings.

This movement left has resulted in losing touch with, and credibility with, the left leaning middle class voters, both blue and white collar, and this can be seen in their federal congressional seat losses 2010, 2012 and 2016 (yes, 6 years of falling numbers of seats).

Without Obama on the ticket and campaigning, the Democrats lose representation in government. It appears the Obama coalition isn’t one that identifies with the Democratic party as much as it identified with the man alone. It’s also shown in the number of state legislatures and governorships firmly in the hands of the Republicans.

So yes, it seems the Democrats have indeed followed Obama over the cliff like lemmings.

With the Democrats in the house electing Pelosi to leadership, it doesn’t seem like the congressional seat losses for the Democrat party are going to subside or be turned back to gaining seats. Which 60-year-old (and plus) Democratic congressional leader is going to speak to, engage with, and earn the votes of, the millennials, who went for, supported and voted for Bernie, but not Hillary?

With Dr. Stein collecting money madly and quickly, allegedly for recount efforts (and make no mistake, separate accounts or not, those funds will end up in the Green campaign coffers for 2020). It seems that there is far more synergy between millennials and the Greens rather than the millennials and the now further left Democrats.

What do you think? Are the Greens going to be the new ‘Center-Left’ party? Taking this position from Democrat party which vacated it to move further left with Obama, et. al.?

If the Green party will become that party, this would put the Democratic party in a really bad spot, a self-inflicted one, fighting for the millennial votes which previously voted for Bernie.

Are we going to see the Green party as a viable 3rd party in the US?
 
eohrnberger said:
It's pretty clear that Obama, Pelosi, Reid, DWS, and Brazile have dragged the previously center left Democrats further to the left. I’ve been observing for 4 years now (or there abouts) wondering if the Democrats are going to follow Obama off the cliff like lemmings.

This movement left has resulted in losing touch with, and credibility with, the left leaning middle class voters, both blue and white collar, and this can be seen in their federal congressional seat losses 2010, 2012 and 2016 (yes, 6 years of falling numbers of seats).

Without Obama on the ticket and campaigning, the Democrats lose representation in government. It appears the Obama coalition isn’t one that identifies with the Democratic party as much as it identified with the man alone. It’s also shown in the number of state legislatures and governorships firmly in the hands of the Republicans.

So yes, it seems the Democrats have indeed followed Obama over the cliff like lemmings.

With the Democrats in the house electing Pelosi to leadership, it doesn’t seem like the congressional seat losses for the Democrat party are going to subside or be turned back to gaining seats. Which 60-year-old (and plus) Democratic congressional leader is going to speak to, engage with, and earn the votes of, the millennials, who went for, supported and voted for Bernie, but not Hillary?

With Dr. Stein collecting money madly and quickly, allegedly for recount efforts (and make no mistake, separate accounts or not, those funds will end up in the Green campaign coffers for 2020). It seems that there is far more synergy between millennials and the Greens rather than the millennials and the now further left Democrats.

What do you think? Are the Greens going to be the new ‘Center-Left’ party? Taking this position from Democrat party which vacated it to move further left with Obama, et. al.?

If the Green party will become that party, this would put the Democratic party in a really bad spot, a self-inflicted one, fighting for the millennial votes which previously voted for Bernie.

Are we going to see the Green party as a viable 3rd party in the US?
Click to expand...

They could be for a short time. The message is populist enough and feels good. As soon as the measures are implemented that Green policy requires to be green, however, the popularity should die.
 
joG said:
They could be for a short time. The message is populist enough and feels good. As soon as the measures are implemented that Green policy requires to be green, however, the popularity should die.
Click to expand...

A fair observation. My analysis didn't extend into the typical Green platform which would be what their voters would be voting on. Perhaps it should have.
 
eohrnberger said:
It's pretty clear that Obama, Pelosi, Reid, DWS, and Brazile have dragged the previously center left Democrats further to the left. I’ve been observing for 4 years now (or there abouts) wondering if the Democrats are going to follow Obama off the cliff like lemmings.

This movement left has resulted in losing touch with, and credibility with, the left leaning middle class voters, both blue and white collar, and this can be seen in their federal congressional seat losses 2010, 2012 and 2016 (yes, 6 years of falling numbers of seats).

Without Obama on the ticket and campaigning, the Democrats lose representation in government. It appears the Obama coalition isn’t one that identifies with the Democratic party as much as it identified with the man alone. It’s also shown in the number of state legislatures and governorships firmly in the hands of the Republicans.

So yes, it seems the Democrats have indeed followed Obama over the cliff like lemmings.

With the Democrats in the house electing Pelosi to leadership, it doesn’t seem like the congressional seat losses for the Democrat party are going to subside or be turned back to gaining seats. Which 60-year-old (and plus) Democratic congressional leader is going to speak to, engage with, and earn the votes of, the millennials, who went for, supported and voted for Bernie, but not Hillary?

With Dr. Stein collecting money madly and quickly, allegedly for recount efforts (and make no mistake, separate accounts or not, those funds will end up in the Green campaign coffers for 2020). It seems that there is far more synergy between millennials and the Greens rather than the millennials and the now further left Democrats.

What do you think? Are the Greens going to be the new ‘Center-Left’ party? Taking this position from Democrat party which vacated it to move further left with Obama, et. al.?

If the Green party will become that party, this would put the Democratic party in a really bad spot, a self-inflicted one, fighting for the millennial votes which previously voted for Bernie.

Are we going to see the Green party as a viable 3rd party in the US?
Click to expand...

None of your post makes any sense whatsoever.

First you characterize Obama, Reid, Pelosi as dragging the democrats off a far left cliff and then you claim that the party to replace them is the green party with bernie supporters who are much father left than Obama and crew and the average democrat.

You go the congressional gain wrong, the democrats actually gained seats in 2012 and 2016.

You wonder how a 60 year old democrat congressional leader can relate to millennials while pointing out that 66 year old Jill Stein and 75 year old Bernie Sanders are loved by millennials

So to answer your question, "Are we going to see the Green party as a viable 3rd party in the US?"

No
 
Crovax said:
None of your post makes any sense whatsoever.

First you characterize Obama, Reid, Pelosi as dragging the democrats off a far left cliff and then you claim that the party to replace them is the green party with bernie supporters who are much father left than Obama and crew and the average democrat.

You go the congressional gain wrong, the democrats actually gained seats in 2012 and 2016.

You wonder how a 60 year old democrat congressional leader can relate to millennials while pointing out that 66 year old Jill Stein and 75 year old Bernie Sanders are loved by millennials

So to answer your question, "Are we going to see the Green party as a viable 3rd party in the US?"

No
Click to expand...

Hmm. OK. I learned something. Thank you.
I didn't know that there were internal conflicts in my thought. Guess it really is better to have another perspective and another set of eyes looking at these things.
 
eohrnberger said:
Hmm. OK. I learned something. Thank you.
I didn't know that there were internal conflicts in my thought. Guess it really is better to have another perspective and another set of eyes looking at these things.
Click to expand...

Totally agree sometimes Ill see a link a an old post and ill reread it an either go, I really nailed it or WTF was I thinking when I wrote that.
 
Crovax said:
Totally agree sometimes Ill see a link a an old post and ill reread it an either go, I really nailed it or WTF was I thinking when I wrote that.
Click to expand...

If you stay on a single site long enough, build a history of posts, I don't think there's a single person that wouldn't have that same.
 
eohrnberger said:
It's pretty clear that Obama, Pelosi, Reid, DWS, and Brazile have dragged the previously center left Democrats further to the left. I’ve been observing for 4 years now (or there abouts) wondering if the Democrats are going to follow Obama off the cliff like lemmings.

This movement left has resulted in losing touch with, and credibility with, the left leaning middle class voters, both blue and white collar, and this can be seen in their federal congressional seat losses 2010, 2012 and 2016 (yes, 6 years of falling numbers of seats).

Without Obama on the ticket and campaigning, the Democrats lose representation in government. It appears the Obama coalition isn’t one that identifies with the Democratic party as much as it identified with the man alone. It’s also shown in the number of state legislatures and governorships firmly in the hands of the Republicans.

So yes, it seems the Democrats have indeed followed Obama over the cliff like lemmings.

With the Democrats in the house electing Pelosi to leadership, it doesn’t seem like the congressional seat losses for the Democrat party are going to subside or be turned back to gaining seats. Which 60-year-old (and plus) Democratic congressional leader is going to speak to, engage with, and earn the votes of, the millennials, who went for, supported and voted for Bernie, but not Hillary?

With Dr. Stein collecting money madly and quickly, allegedly for recount efforts (and make no mistake, separate accounts or not, those funds will end up in the Green campaign coffers for 2020). It seems that there is far more synergy between millennials and the Greens rather than the millennials and the now further left Democrats.

What do you think? Are the Greens going to be the new ‘Center-Left’ party? Taking this position from Democrat party which vacated it to move further left with Obama, et. al.?

If the Green party will become that party, this would put the Democratic party in a really bad spot, a self-inflicted one, fighting for the millennial votes which previously voted for Bernie.

Are we going to see the Green party as a viable 3rd party in the US?
Click to expand...

I don't see the Green Party becoming much more than it already is. It's rather myopic focus on environment and progressive causes marks it as little more than a fringe party. Also, I can't see sufficient numbers of left leaning middle class, white and blue collar, or even millennials trained to hug trees, to bring it into a viable 3rd party status.

I think the coming years of the Trump Administration will determine if any 3rd party has reason to get the voters attention.
 
If Bernie Sanders committed TODAY to run in 2020 as a Green Party candidate...yes...they would be the new center left party. But without an actual name, Jill Stein is doing more harm for the Green party than good.
 
eohrnberger said:
A fair observation. My analysis didn't extend into the typical Green platform which would be what their voters would be voting on. Perhaps it should have.
Click to expand...

Greens do not like the detail and consequence end of the story.
 
What do you think? Are the Greens going to be the new ‘Center-Left’ party?
Click to expand...

no. we're stuck with the Republicans and the NotRepublicans, unfortunately. looks like i'll have about one viable candidate to choose from in every election for the rest of my life.
 
VanceMack said:
If Bernie Sanders committed TODAY to run in 2020 as a Green Party candidate...yes...they would be the new center left party. But without an actual name, Jill Stein is doing more harm for the Green party than good.
Click to expand...

While in the short term, yes, many are just laughing at her and her recount effort and her barely believable about re-establishing electorate trust in the election process and results. Her litany of technical possible electronic voting hacking isn't founded in technical reality, mind you I don't like voting machines that don't have a paper audit trail.

Longer term, whatever money she collects for this effort is going to end up in her 2020 campaign war chest, which seems to be why she's collecting based on this recount excuse of hers.
 
joG said:
Greens do not like the detail and consequence end of the story.
Click to expand...

Would seem to be the case. Guess this is now the official policy of rainbows and unicorns.
 
Helix said:
no. we're stuck with the Republicans and the NotRepublicans, unfortunately. looks like i'll have about one viable candidate to choose from in every election for the rest of my life.
Click to expand...

If the Democrats keep loosing ground, i.e. state legislatures and governorships as well as congressional seats, it may very well become one major party and one minor party, with some also ran fringe parties. Whether this is going to result in EU style political party level coalitions is an interesting idea to think about.
Democrats + Greens vs. Republicans.

But as I've posted before, I don't like the idea that any one party becomes that dominant over the others. It breeds stupidity, hubris and complacency, much as we've seen from the establishment parties this last election cycle.
 
Crovax said:
None of your post makes any sense whatsoever.

First you characterize Obama, Reid, Pelosi as dragging the democrats off a far left cliff and then you claim that the party to replace them is the green party with bernie supporters who are much father left than Obama and crew and the average democrat.

You go the congressional gain wrong, the democrats actually gained seats in 2012 and 2016.

You wonder how a 60 year old democrat congressional leader can relate to millennials while pointing out that 66 year old Jill Stein and 75 year old Bernie Sanders are loved by millennials

So to answer your question, "Are we going to see the Green party as a viable 3rd party in the US?"

No
Click to expand...

To go farther left than the "Green" Party, you would need a hammer and sickle.
 
eohrnberger said:
If the Democrats keep loosing ground, i.e. state legislatures and governorships as well as congressional seats, it may very well become one major party and one minor party, with some also ran fringe parties. Whether this is going to result in EU style political party level coalitions is an interesting idea to think about.
Democrats + Greens vs. Republicans.

But as I've posted before, I don't like the idea that any one party becomes that dominant over the others. It breeds stupidity, hubris and complacency, much as we've seen from the establishment parties this last election cycle.
Click to expand...

What you're seeing is a race to the bottom with the Democrats winning that race for the time being. Politics follow the culture of the country with the US culture become more and more immoral with each passing decade. When you have a culture that tolerates abortion and homosexual marriage while driving God out of the public square and the school house, with no stigma for being on the public dole, you have a country no longer fit for self governance. The "shiny object" candidate will win the election. This election was the carnival barker versus Santa Claus.
 
eohrnberger said:
If the Democrats keep loosing ground, i.e. state legislatures and governorships as well as congressional seats, it may very well become one major party and one minor party, with some also ran fringe parties. Whether this is going to result in EU style political party level coalitions is an interesting idea to think about.
Democrats + Greens vs. Republicans.

But as I've posted before, I don't like the idea that any one party becomes that dominant over the others. It breeds stupidity, hubris and complacency, much as we've seen from the establishment parties this last election cycle.
Click to expand...

i look at our path forward as a nation somewhat like driving a car : sometimes an adjustment to the right is the answer; sometimes a turn to the left. rarely, a swerve is necessary. however, if one party controls everything for a length of time, expect to chase your tail in circles.

i'd rather have more parties to choose from, but at the very least, gerrymandering has to go. it is an anticompetitive practice, and that has the same effect on politics that it has on capitalism.
 
The greenie-weenies are the biggest communist idiots of all. There's no way they'll ever win power via referendum.
 
SDET said:
What you're seeing is a race to the bottom with the Democrats winning that race for the time being. Politics follow the culture of the country with the US culture become more and more immoral with each passing decade. When you have a culture that tolerates abortion and homosexual marriage while driving God out of the public square and the school house, with no stigma for being on the public dole, you have a country no longer fit for self governance. The "shiny object" candidate will win the election. This election was the carnival barker versus Santa Claus.
Click to expand...

Race to the bottom with Democrats leading, I'd have to say yes. The GOP factionalization and disunity they (and their media lapdogs) predicted seems to have inflicted their party far more so than the GOP, which leads to the equally valid observation that whatever the Democrats are accusing others, look for it in their own ranks first and it'll probably be far worse.

While I would agree that the moral fabric of the nation has fallen into disrepair, I'm not sure if turning back on the separation of church and state would be the best way forward, but more so in the public square I think we'd agree again.

A pity that so few of the electorate have the needed critical thinking skills and longer term memory / knowledge of history to prevent the typical of Jack Bird diversion from the solution-less "shiny object" candidate either of the parties keeps offering up.

Well, perhaps with this most recent presidential selection it'll be different. TO be truthful, we already know that it'll be different, but the question still remains if it'll be effective and better, which is yet to be seen.
 
Helix said:
i look at our path forward as a nation somewhat like driving a car : sometimes an adjustment to the right is the answer; sometimes a turn to the left. rarely, a swerve is necessary. however, if one party controls everything for a length of time, expect to chase your tail in circles.
Click to expand...

On that I think we'd agree. We've seen the GOP amass nearly enough to governorship and state legislatures to nearly pass a constitutional amendment all on their own, and I see that as having too much concentration of power in a single party. It only leads to stupid ideas and complacency where we as a nation can least afford it.

Helix said:
i'd rather have more parties to choose from, but at the very least, gerrymandering has to go. it is an anticompetitive practice, and that has the same effect on politics that it has on capitalism.
Click to expand...

I wonder as to what sort of legislation, which would be able to pass both houses of congress, and yet would curb gerrymandering, and yet not in such a fashion as to make the resulting system swing into unfairness overly so as to become unfair the other way.
 
eohrnberger said:
It's pretty clear that Obama, Pelosi, Reid, DWS, and Brazile have dragged the previously center left Democrats further to the left. I’ve been observing for 4 years now (or there abouts) wondering if the Democrats are going to follow Obama off the cliff like lemmings.

This movement left has resulted in losing touch with, and credibility with, the left leaning middle class voters, both blue and white collar, and this can be seen in their federal congressional seat losses 2010, 2012 and 2016 (yes, 6 years of falling numbers of seats).

Without Obama on the ticket and campaigning, the Democrats lose representation in government. It appears the Obama coalition isn’t one that identifies with the Democratic party as much as it identified with the man alone. It’s also shown in the number of state legislatures and governorships firmly in the hands of the Republicans.

So yes, it seems the Democrats have indeed followed Obama over the cliff like lemmings.

With the Democrats in the house electing Pelosi to leadership, it doesn’t seem like the congressional seat losses for the Democrat party are going to subside or be turned back to gaining seats. Which 60-year-old (and plus) Democratic congressional leader is going to speak to, engage with, and earn the votes of, the millennials, who went for, supported and voted for Bernie, but not Hillary?

With Dr. Stein collecting money madly and quickly, allegedly for recount efforts (and make no mistake, separate accounts or not, those funds will end up in the Green campaign coffers for 2020). It seems that there is far more synergy between millennials and the Greens rather than the millennials and the now further left Democrats.

What do you think? Are the Greens going to be the new ‘Center-Left’ party? Taking this position from Democrat party which vacated it to move further left with Obama, et. al.?

If the Green party will become that party, this would put the Democratic party in a really bad spot, a self-inflicted one, fighting for the millennial votes which previously voted for Bernie.

Are we going to see the Green party as a viable 3rd party in the US?
Click to expand...

The greens are further left than the democrat party. So, no.
 
countryboy said:
The greens are further left than the democrat party. So, no.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, the Greens are further left. Does leave a big gap for center-left electorate and whom they'd be likely to vote for.
Return of the 'Regan Democrats' ? I wonder.
 
Helix said:
no. we're stuck with the Republicans and the NotRepublicans, unfortunately. looks like i'll have about one viable candidate to choose from in every election for the rest of my life.
Click to expand...

ugh . .. I hope that's not true :(
 
eohrnberger said:
On that I think we'd agree. We've seen the GOP amass nearly enough to governorship and state legislatures to nearly pass a constitutional amendment all on their own, and I see that as having too much concentration of power in a single party. It only leads to stupid ideas and complacency where we as a nation can least afford it.



I wonder as to what sort of legislation, which would be able to pass both houses of congress, and yet would curb gerrymandering, and yet not in such a fashion as to make the resulting system swing into unfairness overly so as to become unfair the other way.
Click to expand...

no laws aimed at truly fixing gerrymandering will pass. i'm talking about what should be done, not what will actually be considered.
 
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