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Do you REALLY trust Hillary, and do you really think she is a good person?

Sweden said:
OK Kobi. She's called Teresa May and is the UK's rather good new Prime Minister. A thoroughly decent person. Worth fifty of the US's soon to be President Clinton.
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Mother Theresa and Theresa May are not the same person.
 
Abbazorkzog said:
Mother Theresa and Theresa May are not the same person.
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You are right for once: May is not a mother. Come to think of it neither was 'Mother' Teresa.
 
Hillary is a "mother" all right - the mother of the largest government connected corruption ring in the world!
 
ModerationNow! said:
I honestly think that this is the worst election in my lifetime because we have 2 duds to choose from. Trump is a tone deaf person who puts his foot in his mouth somewhat often. Although much of the stuff he has said was either from 12-23 years ago, or has been deceptively spun into something it never was(Trump never called all Latino immigrants rapists). But nonetheless he doesn't seem to be knowledgeable in important areas and he is arrogant.

Then there's Hillary. I honestly cannot see how anyone can see her as anything less than corrupt and dishonest, despite the media's attempts at whitewashing her reputation.

She mistreated her underlings and her secret service personnel, even throwing a book at the back of the head of a secret service man because she thought he may have been listening to her conversation.

She obviously tried to avoid transparency and accountability by refusing a highly secure govt server, in lieu of an unsecured and easily hackable private server, then she had it wiped before the investigation, removing over 30k emails according to the FBI investigators.

She and Bill use the same tax loopholes that they criticize Trump for using, and her friends do the same. She made no attempt to close these loopholes. She panders to Wall street tycoons, then comes to the rest of us and pretends to care about us, while attending only the most posh galas and charging $1,000's per plate at dinners to see her. Her and Bill obviously worked together for mutual financial benefit during her term as Secretary of state.

I could go on, and most progressives are probably unaware of almost all of that, as many of you probably only hear the one-sided, pro-Hillary propaganda from most media and progressive internet sources.

But the question is, do you buy into the sugar coated, Hillary-as-Mother-Theresa type propaganda, or like me, do you think both candidates suck?
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Hillary Clinton has a voting and policy record. You're free to vote for her or not to vote for her based on that record.
 
ModerationNow! said:
I honestly think that this is the worst election in my lifetime because we have 2 duds to choose from. Trump is a tone deaf person who puts his foot in his mouth somewhat often. Although much of the stuff he has said was either from 12-23 years ago, or has been deceptively spun into something it never was(Trump never called all Latino immigrants rapists). But nonetheless he doesn't seem to be knowledgeable in important areas and he is arrogant.

Then there's Hillary. I honestly cannot see how anyone can see her as anything less than corrupt and dishonest, despite the media's attempts at whitewashing her reputation.

She mistreated her underlings and her secret service personnel, even throwing a book at the back of the head of a secret service man because she thought he may have been listening to her conversation.

She obviously tried to avoid transparency and accountability by refusing a highly secure govt server, in lieu of an unsecured and easily hackable private server, then she had it wiped before the investigation, removing over 30k emails according to the FBI investigators.

She and Bill use the same tax loopholes that they criticize Trump for using, and her friends do the same. She made no attempt to close these loopholes. She panders to Wall street tycoons, then comes to the rest of us and pretends to care about us, while attending only the most posh galas and charging $1,000's per plate at dinners to see her. Her and Bill obviously worked together for mutual financial benefit during her term as Secretary of state.

I could go on, and most progressives are probably unaware of almost all of that, as many of you probably only hear the one-sided, pro-Hillary propaganda from most media and progressive internet sources.

But the question is, do you buy into the sugar coated, Hillary-as-Mother-Theresa type propaganda, or like me, do you think both candidates suck?
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Yes, I trust Hillary

I trust her to be the same secretive, militaristic, pro-Wall Street politician she has always been. I trust that she will continue to support trade deals, abortion rights, civil rights, increased taxes on the rich, universal health care, unions, and environmental regulations.

Just as she has done for her entire professional life
 
sangha said:
Yes, I trust Hillary

I trust her to be the same secretive, militaristic, pro-Wall Street politician she has always been. I trust that she will continue to support trade deals, abortion rights, civil rights, increased taxes on the rich, universal health care, unions, and environmental regulations.

Just as she has done for her entire professional life
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This.

I wanted better as I was initially a Bernie guy, but it's a whole lot easier to make peace with the above than the Greek tragedy that is Donald Trump.
 
ModerationNow! said:
I honestly think that this is the worst election in my lifetime because we have 2 duds to choose from. Trump is a tone deaf person who puts his foot in his mouth somewhat often. Although much of the stuff he has said was either from 12-23 years ago, or has been deceptively spun into something it never was(Trump never called all Latino immigrants rapists). But nonetheless he doesn't seem to be knowledgeable in important areas and he is arrogant.

Then there's Hillary. I honestly cannot see how anyone can see her as anything less than corrupt and dishonest, despite the media's attempts at whitewashing her reputation.

She mistreated her underlings and her secret service personnel, even throwing a book at the back of the head of a secret service man because she thought he may have been listening to her conversation.

She obviously tried to avoid transparency and accountability by refusing a highly secure govt server, in lieu of an unsecured and easily hackable private server, then she had it wiped before the investigation, removing over 30k emails according to the FBI investigators.

She and Bill use the same tax loopholes that they criticize Trump for using, and her friends do the same. She made no attempt to close these loopholes. She panders to Wall street tycoons, then comes to the rest of us and pretends to care about us, while attending only the most posh galas and charging $1,000's per plate at dinners to see her. Her and Bill obviously worked together for mutual financial benefit during her term as Secretary of state.

I could go on, and most progressives are probably unaware of almost all of that, as many of you probably only hear the one-sided, pro-Hillary propaganda from most media and progressive internet sources.

But the question is, do you buy into the sugar coated, Hillary-as-Mother-Theresa type propaganda, or like me, do you think both candidates suck?
Click to expand...

The last question is loaded with a black and white fallacy.

Hillary is the political equivalent of a wind sock. We know what to expect with her and, more importantly, we can expect her to be influenced by the public.

Trump is a wild card. His wall could be a disaster, his policies on trade could be catastrophic, he does raise a lot of good points, but i think there's a lot more risk and uncertainty with a Trump presidency.
 
Absentglare said:
Hillary is the political equivalent of a wind sock. We know what to expect with her and, more importantly, we can expect her to be influenced by the public.
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:lamo

She's influenced by the highest bidder, whether it be Wall Street or George Soros. She doesn't give a damn what the public wants!


Trump is a wild card. His wall could be a disaster
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How so?

his policies on trade could be catastrophic
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What's catastrophic about re-negotiating bad trade deals (NAFTA) and creating new ones that benefit us?
 
Kobie said:
Hillary is a very bad nominee. Donald Trump is the worst nominee in the history of the U.S.
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And both parties are at fault for that.

The Democrats wanted Hillary and did whatever it took to prop her up.

On the GOP side, the 16 guys they convinced to run were either a rehash of the same twits they bring out every 4 years, ones that didn't have the moxie to make the cut or were general idiots. Trump was the wild card that everyone wanted because he wasn't an establishment whore.
 
Roadvirus said:
:lamo

She's influenced by the highest bidder, whether it be Wall Street or George Soros. She doesn't give a damn what the public wants!
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Her views on gay marriage changed as public sentiment changed.

Roadvirus said:
How so?
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Because it won't stop illegal immigration, it will cost a fortune, and it will actually serve to hold illegal immigrants here.

Roadvirus said:
What's catastrophic about re-negotiating bad trade deals (NAFTA) and creating new ones that benefit us?
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The trade deals tend to be mutually beneficial. Initiating a trade war could be catastrophic.
 
Kobie said:
WHAT "Hillary-as-Mother-Teresa" type propaganda? Where does this ****ing exist?
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Seriously? Every time I've watched the allegedly honest/unbiased/objective tv programs like Don Lemmon at CNN, what I always see and hear are justifications for the behavior of Hillary, or B.S. excuses for her illegal top secret emails sent on a private server, such as "well, Obama's FBI didn't charge her, therefore she did nothing wrong!" What I DONT hear are are the omitted stories of major lies, dispicable behavior, corruption, pay-to-play preferential treatment for the wealthy, etc.

But what I also hear, are erroneous comments by 'journalists' about Hillary's lifelong battle for children and women's rights, and her tireless crusade for the downtrodden and minorities. But there's never any empirical evidence supporting these claims(aside from Hillary's self serving propaganda).

I've read countless 'news stories' that show up on my Google homepage about how caring and wonderful Hillary is. It comes from Wash. Post, NY Times, Bloomberg news, etc etc.

Last I checked, those are the same comments I used to hear about Mother Theresa! Only MT probably didn't have as much baggage for the media to intentionally omit or minimize.
 
eohrnberger said:
An insightful observation there RoadVirus. You suppose that this will propel good people and good leaders back into leadership roles in this nation?
I wonder, as the process has evolved into demanding numerous contortions from all the candidates, so much so that it damn near destroys them at a personal level.
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We know who Hillary is and where her heart lies. And for anybody who loves liberty, opportunity, and respects the intent of the Constitution, it is darn near impossible to see Hillary as the better choice in this election. Trump is pretty much a mystery as how he will go about doing anything, and he doesn't do much homework until he really needs to know something, but as unacceptable as he is, he at least recognizes the problems and says he will make fixing them his priority.

So take the sure thing that is 100% unacceptable and little to no track record for achievement of anything but bad outcomes? Or the unknown who actually might make things better and has a track record for doing so and at least is pledged to protect the Constitution and the Supreme Court?

But you're right that both Hillary and Trump have endured hate and baseless slurs and accusations ad nauseum; something nobody should have to endure in order to run for public office.

I don't like him, appreciate him, and won't commend him, but I'm taking my chances with Trump.

This election is not about Hillary or Trump or anybody else. This election is about us. I'm voting for us to have the better shot at turning things around.
 
AlbqOwl said:
We know who Hillary is and where her heart lies. And for anybody who loves liberty, opportunity, and respects the intent of the Constitution, it is darn near impossible to see Hillary as the better choice in this election. Trump is pretty much a mystery as how he will go about doing anything, and he doesn't do much homework until he really needs to know something, but as unacceptable as he is, he at least recognizes the problems and says he will make fixing them his priority.

So take the sure thing that is 100% unacceptable and little to no track record for achievement of anything but bad outcomes? Or the unknown who actually might make things better and has a track record for doing so and at least is pledged to protect the Constitution and the Supreme Court?

But you're right that both Hillary and Trump have endured hate and baseless slurs and accusations ad nauseum; something nobody should have to endure in order to run for public office.

I don't like him, appreciate him, and won't commend him, but I'm taking my chances with Trump.

This election is not about Hillary or Trump or anybody else. This election is about us. I'm voting for us to have the better shot at turning things around.
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I agree. Given the choice between the two, I don't see how anyone who's paying the slightest bit of attention can vote for Hillary. Her corruption just goes far too deep. I'd rather take my chances with Trump.
 
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ModerationNow! said:
I honestly think that this is the worst election in my lifetime because we have 2 duds to choose from. Trump is a tone deaf person who puts his foot in his mouth somewhat often. Although much of the stuff he has said was either from 12-23 years ago, or has been deceptively spun into something it never was(Trump never called all Latino immigrants rapists). But nonetheless he doesn't seem to be knowledgeable in important areas and he is arrogant.

Then there's Hillary. I honestly cannot see how anyone can see her as anything less than corrupt and dishonest, despite the media's attempts at whitewashing her reputation.

She mistreated her underlings and her secret service personnel, even throwing a book at the back of the head of a secret service man because she thought he may have been listening to her conversation.

She obviously tried to avoid transparency and accountability by refusing a highly secure govt server, in lieu of an unsecured and easily hackable private server, then she had it wiped before the investigation, removing over 30k emails according to the FBI investigators.

She and Bill use the same tax loopholes that they criticize Trump for using, and her friends do the same. She made no attempt to close these loopholes. She panders to Wall street tycoons, then comes to the rest of us and pretends to care about us, while attending only the most posh galas and charging $1,000's per plate at dinners to see her. Her and Bill obviously worked together for mutual financial benefit during her term as Secretary of state.

I could go on, and most progressives are probably unaware of almost all of that, as many of you probably only hear the one-sided, pro-Hillary propaganda from most media and progressive internet sources.

But the question is, do you buy into the sugar coated, Hillary-as-Mother-Theresa type propaganda, or like me, do you think both candidates suck?
Click to expand...


It's Nixon v. Taft, almost.

Title answers:

1. I trust her to do what polls tell her to do, specifically, polls concerning the groups who end up voting her in the most.

2. I expect her to lie and scandal at the usual rate of politicians (it's what she's done).

3. I trust her to be a compromising pragmatist, left of center, on the actual issues.

4. I do not know if she is a bad person because I do not know what person she is. IS there a "Hillary" ?

__________________

1a. I trust Trump to do whatever the **** poops [sic?] into his head at the moment and/or made him angry while watching TV the night before.

2. I expect Trump to lie all the time, even when it doesn't matter. I cannot speculate about scandals, other than that they will probably involve him or his people getting more money at a greater rate than the usual politician.

3. I have no idea what he'll do politically.

3a. IF he wants a second term (i'm not sure he does), he'll be the raging extremist imbecile he's been on the campaign trail. Target political opponents with investigations, target muslims, etc.

3b. IF he doesn't mean what he says and just wants to increase his brand, he'll move back towards being pro-business 100%, and pro-Democrat wherever it doesn't interfere. We'll see more moves aimed to help him in business later. Probably more bankruptcy protections, etc.

4. I think he is a bad person.
 
AlbqOwl said:
And for anybody who loves liberty, opportunity, and respects the intent of the Constitution, it is darn near impossible to see Hillary as the better choice in this election.
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1. A person who says that if they were CiC, their political opponent does not know what "liberty" is, or if they do, does not "love" it.

2. Those proclaiming most loudly about loving the "intent" of the constitution tend to know the least about it, though with some exceptions. Trump is not an exception. Trump knows jack **** about law, constitutional law or otherwise.

3. "Opportunity"? If by loving opportunity you mean loving the way a rich person can get away with stiffing all his contractors to make an extra buck and declaring bankruptcy when other shenanigans cannot get him/her out of trouble, then yea, Trump "loves" opportunity.

Any post claiming that Trump wants "opportunity" for the average American is so ignorant, misguided, and downright stupid that it insults the word quoted.
 
eohrnberger said:
I agree. Given the choice between the two, I don't see how anyone who's paying the slightest bit of attention can vote for Hillary. Her corruption just goes far too deep. I'd rather take my chances with Trump.
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His corruption is deeper. But you wouldn't have looked, had you concluded before 2016 that Hillary was worse.

cough cough



Turns out that not looking is a good way to not know.
 
We simply need to change the election so that None if the Above is one of the choices and if more people vote that way than for any other candidate then the election starts over, all new candidates and three months for the election.
 
Mr Person said:
1. A person who says that if they were CiC, their political opponent does not know what "liberty" is, or if they do, does not "love" it.

2. Those proclaiming most loudly about loving the "intent" of the constitution tend to know the least about it, though with some exceptions. Trump is not an exception. Trump knows jack **** about law, constitutional law or otherwise.

3. "Opportunity"? If by loving opportunity you mean loving the way a rich person can get away with stiffing all his contractors to make an extra buck and declaring bankruptcy when other shenanigans cannot get him/her out of trouble, then yea, Trump "loves" opportunity.

Any post claiming that Trump wants "opportunity" for the average American is so ignorant, misguided, and downright stupid that it insults the word quoted.
Click to expand...

Replace Trump with Hillary everywhere in your post, and I think you would have it about right.
 
Mr Person said:
1. A person who says that if they were CiC, their political opponent does not know what "liberty" is, or if they do, does not "love" it.

2. Those proclaiming most loudly about loving the "intent" of the constitution tend to know the least about it, though with some exceptions. Trump is not an exception. Trump knows jack **** about law, constitutional law or otherwise.

3. "Opportunity"? If by loving opportunity you mean loving the way a rich person can get away with stiffing all his contractors to make an extra buck and declaring bankruptcy when other shenanigans cannot get him/her out of trouble, then yea, Trump "loves" opportunity.

Any post claiming that Trump wants "opportunity" for the average American is so ignorant, misguided, and downright stupid that it insults the word quoted.
Click to expand...

AlbqOwl said:
Replace Trump with Hillary everywhere in your post, and I think you would have it about right.
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Replace "[nuh uh]" with "[ya huh]" in your post, and I think you would have it about right.




















(See what I did there?)









Still, it would be crappy "debate" for a "debate" forum.
 
Casper said:
We simply need to change the election so that None if the Above is one of the choices and if more people vote that way than for any other candidate then the election starts over, all new candidates and three months for the election.
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What needs to happen is a concerted effort to relax the standards for getting other-party persons on various tickets. I think it must start in states and smaller federal districts. Grow it from there.

The overarching problem with our system is the oligarchy (duoligarchy, if that's not a term yet...) of the two parties, who have hated each other but at least conspired to squeeze out everyone else, with some few exceptions. There is the enemy.





It will take it a while. There is SO much money and influence...........and inertia.

The system at present will protect itself at virtually any cost. They play a long game. We must play a long game. Rash cries for rebellion only play into their hands (so do many things falling short)
 
"Do you REALLY trust Hillary, and do you really think she is a good person?"

well trust her and think she is good in relation to what?

First off let me say I wont be voting for her, Ill be voting other unless I thought trump had a change then i would vote for her to keep him out.

Next I dont really trust any politicians, the job is too hard, its rigged (favors and maneuvering) to not really be a trustworthy position. It has levels mine you and some are why more trustworthy than others but thats about it.

"As a politician" i trust her more so than i trust some of the others that were running, I trust her more than trump easily but that doesnt mean i trust her in general and i certainly dont trust her the most by any means

As a politician I do think she is a good person and one of the better people that were running and certainly a better "person" than trump but again this is based on politician criteria.

Regardless she wont be getting my vote unless its to keep trump out and that doesnt look like its needed so . . .
 
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