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Black Lives Matter If....

_Sal said:
what's too bad, and so sad other than your attitude toward this?

Black lives do matter. Choose to ignore the message/meaning at your own peril.

The phraze "all lives matter" in response has become an excuse to ignore the issue and frankly it's ridiculous.

We have become a society with emotional, knee jerk responses that are shallow and meaningless.

That's our society today...knee jerk emotion without thought or consideration of consequence and it is taking us to a very, very bad place.
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Cases involving unarmed black men killed by white police officers accounts for less than 4% of police fatalities.

The only kneejerk emotional reaction is coming from BLM and their supporters, who spend so much time obsessing over a scenario that isn't terribly common, compared to the daily black on black killings across the country.
 
truthatallcost said:
Cases involving unarmed black men killed by white police officers accounts for less than 4% of police fatalities.

The only kneejerk emotional reaction is coming from BLM and their supporters, who spend so much time obsessing over a scenario that isn't terribly common, compared to the daily black on black killings across the country.
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that isn't the only issue involved though is it...it's a response to the whole justice system and it's a systemic problem...now there is backlash...it isn't just a matter of "those people need to settle down"

there is a division that was narrowing and now that economic times are hard it is widening again

also, people who believe in BLM aren't just the core group of radicals, and aren't just leftist crazies...this problem is deep and running around saying all lives matter is just more fuel on an already burning problem that will grow and ignite and make the riots of the 60's look tame in comparision
 
_Sal said:
that isn't the only issue involved though is it...it's a response to the whole justice system and it's a systemic problem...now there is backlash...it isn't just a matter of "those people need to settle down"

there is a division that was narrowing and now that economic times are hard it is widening again

also, people who believe in BLM aren't just the core group of radicals, and aren't just leftist crazies...this problem is deep and running around saying all lives matter is just more fuel on an already burning problem that will grow and ignite and make the riots of the 60's look tame in comparision
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"As of Sunday, 1,502 people have been shot and killed by on-duty police officers since Jan. 1, 2015. Of them, 732 were white, and 381 were black (and 382 were of another or unknown race).


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-by-police-yes-but-no/?utm_term=.1fe70d4b6f1f

732 dead white people, almost twice the number of blacks..........crickets..crickets...crickets.
That is, until an armed black man is shot in NC, and then...riots!

Hmm, I guess All Lives really Don't Matter, eh? You just proved that pretty well.
 
truthatallcost said:
"As of Sunday, 1,502 people have been shot and killed by on-duty police officers since Jan. 1, 2015. Of them, 732 were white, and 381 were black (and 382 were of another or unknown race).


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-by-police-yes-but-no/?utm_term=.1fe70d4b6f1f

732 dead white people, almost twice the number of blacks..........crickets..crickets...crickets.
That is, until an armed black man is shot in NC, and then...riots!

Hmm, I guess All Lives really Don't Matter, eh? You just proved that pretty well.
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I did? I proved that pretty well?:shock: how did my response prove that lives don't matter?

your post proves exactly what I am saying, it's a systemic issue that is much, much larger than blacks being shot by cops

the issues are massive, black on black shooting, crime, lack of education, lack of opportunity, family breakdown, gangs replacing family etc and the backlash is just beginning

tell me...what do you suggest happen?

thanks for the link but it comes up 404 for me :(
 
hey I found a work around to the thread

it is interesting thanks

I especially thought this part was good: But as data scientists and policing experts often note, comparing how many or how often white people are killed by police to how many or how often black people are killed by the police is statistically dubious unless you first adjust for population.

and then this:

According to the most recent census data, there are nearly 160 million more white people in America than there are black people. White people make up roughly 62 percent of the U.S. population but only about 49 percent of those who are killed by police officers. African Americans, however, account for 24 percent of those fatally shot and killed by the police despite being just 13 percent of the U.S. population. As The Post noted in a new analysis published last week, that means black Americans are 2.5 times as likely as white Americans to be shot and killed by police officers.

:thumbs:
 
VelvetElvis said:
The "Black Lives Matter" movement is goingto do NOTHING as long as they keep portraying it as "Black LivesMatter MORE THAN YOURS."
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No they absolutely do not portray it like that! That’s how right-wing media is used to framing this popular movement with the sole purposeof debasing its momentum.
Gaugingcatenate said:
Validquestion:Whoevertried to justify killing anyone forno reason?Can you point out that person and exactly where they said that,because I would like to join with you in heartily condemningthem.

Wizardof Oz sized straw man. Crystal clear in its transparent irrelevancyand disingenuity.

Knowmuch about the numbers on the topic? Glanced at or studied thepercentage make up by race of our population? How much of the crimeis committed from each racial group? For instance, as comparison whatis the % of the white race? What is its % of crime. Same aboutincarceration levels. What about victimization rates? Who, %s,commits crime on who? Those kinds of answers.

Thenjump down to: How does that compare to police killings ["crime"],% of fatal encounters per general encounters, % ruled unjustified, %not armed, % by race killed by police, % by race killing, etc...

IfBlack Lives truly mattered, where is our area of largest concern?Intellectual honesty please. Is it right that what seems to rankhighest on the priority list should be that simply statistically rareinstance wherein a white cop [or any cop as has now been evidenced bythe currently trending Charlotte "protest"] shoots and/orkills a black person?

Wereyou actually truly color blind and tasked with figuring out logicallywhere to start to solve the biggest issue in the violent deaths ofblacks, where would that truth arrow land? If that is so, is it notthe height of hypocrisy to be taking on a minority, police officersin the USA, and at the same time ignoring the egregious actualtravesty being visited upon our black populations, especially thosein urban venues, everyday?

Hereis another if. If by chance our black brothers and sisters cannotovercome this difficulty by themselves, is it not compassionate tostep in and assist?

Allof us together, no races just Americans. Just a thought.
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I believe it is fallacious to parallel black on black crimes with the manifold cases of police forces shooting unarmed black people! The police is here to protect and serve not to reboot judge Dredd andplay judge and executioner at the same time.
Moreover it is completely ludicrous to read a conservative leaning dude urging us to fall back on statistics to convince us that all this is merefutility given the insignificant figures at stake while every single elected john in the Republican party nowadays feels things things instead of relying on facts, and I quote, Paul Ryan – The economy does not FEEL good-, New Grinwitch -I predicate my political agency on people’s FEELINGS NOT FACTS- etc.
So please spare us the lecture!
Police officer killing black unarmed dude on camera DOES NOT FEEL RIGHT (and is not for that matter), hence black lives matter.
_Sal said:
samewith Canada...except for us it's native Americans...our Reservationsare a mess of poverty, addiction, prostitution and hopeless,helplessness...
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Never forget who is the invader, and in the case of blacks who brought them to America and under which circumstances!
 
_Sal said:
hey I found a work around to the thread

it is interesting thanks

I especially thought this part was good: But as data scientists and policing experts often note, comparing how many or how often white people are killed by police to how many or how often black people are killed by the police is statistically dubious unless you first adjust for population.
[/I]

:thumbs:
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In my opinion it is not only dubious but absolutely shocking, because it creates a false equivalence: you can't put on the same level a police officer, PAID to protect and serve with a random shooting thug, be he black. It's like comparing apples and oranges.
 
t4pi0k4 said:
In my opinion it is not only dubious but absolutely shocking, because it creates a false equivalence: you can't put on the same level a police officer, PAID to protect and serve with a random shooting thug, be he black. It's like comparing apples and oranges.
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I love it when people throw a thread at me that proves exactly what I was saying while discounting their own views...

it's Saturday and Black Lives Matter (to some) ;)
 
_Sal said:
The phraze "all lives matter" in response has become an excuse to ignore the issue and frankly it's ridiculous.
Click to expand...

_Sal said:
... running around saying all lives matter is just more fuel on an already burning problem that will grow and ignite and make the riots of the 60's look tame in comparision
Click to expand...

_Sal said:
I did? I proved that pretty well?:shock: how did my response prove that lives don't matter?
Click to expand...

You said that All Lives Matter would contribute to black riots that make the 60s riots seem tame. You obviously hate the idea behind All Lives Matter, which is....all lives matter.

your post proves exactly what I am saying, it's a systemic issue that is much, much larger than blacks being shot by cops
Click to expand...

Portraying black people to be victims is indeed a systemic issue, as evidenced by the fact that 732 whites were gunned down, 381 blacks were gunned down, and there's an entire industry devoted to portraying black victims as somehow more significant than white victims.

tell me...what do you suggest happen?
Click to expand...

Not allowing people to riot over a YouTube video would be a good start. Enforce the law.


thanks for the link but it comes up 404 for me :(
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I just tested the link, works perfectly fine for me.

Here it is again;
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-by-police-yes-but-no/?utm_term=.a71e05b7cfda
 
truthatallcost said:
You said that All Lives Matter would contribute to black riots that make the 60s riots seem tame.
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I did not say that...all lives matter is a crap response because NO ONE is saying all lives don't matter...it's that black lives matter too and obviously they need to fight for that battle displayed by the very fact that people "choose" to misunderstand the meaning and "use" it to further ignite the situation


You obviously hate the idea behind All Lives Matter, which is....all lives matter.
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baloney that is a disingenuous interpretation at best

at worst it is a manipulative crap line

some animals are more equal than other animals (especially the majority)...:roll:

Portraying black people to be victims is indeed a systemic issue, as evidenced by the fact that 732 whites were gunned down, 381 blacks were gunned down, and there's an entire industry devoted to portraying black victims as somehow more significant than white victims.
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omg...read your own article...you did not even read your own article which proves my point EXACTLY...

now that was funny I have to say
Not allowing people to riot over a YouTube video would be a good start. Enforce the law.
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yeah I'm sure they just let that happen


I just tested the link, works perfectly fine for me.

Here it is again;
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-by-police-yes-but-no/?utm_term=.a71e05b7cfda
Click to expand...
me too and thanks for the re-post especially since it backs me all the way... :thumbs:

:mrgreen:
 
_Sal said:
I did not say that...all lives matter is a crap response because NO ONE is saying all lives don't matter...it's that black lives matter too and obviously they need to fight for that battle displayed by the very fact that people "choose" to misunderstand the meaning and "use" it to further ignite the situation


baloney that is a disingenuous interpretation at best

at worst it is a manipulative crap line

some animals are more equal than other animals (especially the majority)...:roll:

omg...read your own article...you did not even read your own article which proves my point EXACTLY...

now that was funny I have to say


yeah I'm sure they just let that happen


me too and thanks for the re-post especially since it backs me all the way... :thumbs:

:mrgreen:
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Ok, we'll stop saying that all lives matter, and talking about any homicide victim who isn't black, just to make you happy :) Better?
 
truthatallcost said:
Ok, we'll stop saying that all lives matter, and talking about any homicide victim who isn't black, just to make you happy :) Better?
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is that your answer to everything we just talked about? ... make me happy? not that I mind being made happy but

even the article that you used to prove MY point...

:shock:

your own article blew your own post right out of the water ... :2wave:

:mrgreen:

thanks for the help...gonna use that news article frequently
 
_Sal said:
...gonna use that news article frequently
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Great. Use this one too:
There were 511 officers killed in felonious incidents and 540 offenders from 2004 to 2013, according to FBI reports. Among the total offenders, 52 percent were white, and 43 percent were black.

White population - 62%
Percentage of cop killers who are white- 52%

Black Population: 12%
Percentage of cop killers who are black: 43%

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...r-white-offenders-more-likely-to-kill-police/
____________________________________

Are you going to use that link?
 
truthatallcost said:
Great. Use this one too:
There were 511 officers killed in felonious incidents and 540 offenders from 2004 to 2013, according to FBI reports. Among the total offenders, 52 percent were white, and 43 percent were black.

White population - 62%
Percentage of cop killers who are white- 52%

Black Population: 12%
Percentage of cop killers who are black: 43%

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...r-white-offenders-more-likely-to-kill-police/
____________________________________

Are you going to use that link?
Click to expand...
wow embarrassed that you didn't read your first link and feeling a little testy I see but sure why wouldn't I...it is supposed to be a search for truth and looking for solutions isn't it?

see how the facts don't always lay it out the way you hope...:lol:
 
_Sal said:
wow embarrassed that you didn't read your first link and feeling a little testy I see but sure why wouldn't I...it is supposed to be a search for truth and looking for solutions isn't it?

see how the facts don't always lay it out the way you hope...:lol:
Click to expand...

:doh

My second link was supposed to give you an idea as to why police officers kill black suspects at a higher percentage than their population size: because black suspects kill police officers at rates of almost 4 times their population size.

Make sense?
 
truthatallcost said:
:doh

My second link was supposed to give you an idea as to why police officers kill black suspects at a higher percentage than their population size: because black suspects kill police officers at rates of almost 4 times their population size.

Make sense?
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ignoring your own first link I see

does the second make sense .... of course it doesn't

police are supposed to be professional, well trained and know how to handle a response correctly

you are fumbling to justify your thread and the fact that it is bogus

do I blame cops for a poor response and killing an innocent unarmed citizen, well yes and no

think about that one for a minute instead of attempting to defend a position that is not defensible and bears no merit

you say truth at all costs

I say you can't handle the truth
 
_Sal said:
ignoring your own first link I see
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That deserves 2 doh's. :doh :doh

does the second make sense .... of course it doesn't

police are supposed to be professional, well trained and know how to handle a response correctly
Click to expand...

One of my favorite arguments that BLM supporters make! Thank you..

Although you may think that police officers are supposed to be perfect in their every action and decision, please give them the same level of humanness that you afford to Michael Brown, Freddie Grey, etc.
Many police officers grew up in bad neighborhoods too, and their job is more stressful than you can probably imagine.

you are fumbling to justify your thread and the fact that it is bogus
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How is it bogus? Black lives that are ended by white police officers receive worldwide attention. Black lives ended by anyone else are lucky if they get a clip in the local obituary page. Get a clue chica.



You say truth at all costs

I say you can't handle the truth
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I know, I know, you are upset at looking foolish, so my name is a misnomer. Boo hoo.
 
truthatallcost said:
That deserves 2 doh's. :doh :doh
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oh brother...that passes for an intelligent exchange a doh...there's someone else around here who does that too...

you might want to think about what that response actually looks like and sounds like when someone makes it



One of my favorite arguments that BLM supporters make! Thank you..
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please tell me this hasn't all gone over your head...you keep side stepping every point I make

either address the points directly or fold

Although you may think that police officers are supposed to be perfect in their every action and decision, please give them the same level of humanness that you afford to Michael Brown, Freddie Grey, etc.
Click to expand...
yes that's what I need instruction in how to treat other human beings


Many police officers grew up in bad neighborhoods too, and their job is more stressful than you can probably imagine.
Click to expand...
:lol: turning something personal about what I can imagine or not imagine is a dangerous game



How is it bogus? Black lives that are ended by white police officers receive worldwide attention. Black lives ended by anyone else are lucky if they get a clip in the local obituary page.
Get a clue chica.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
wow for someone on the losing end of the argument puporting truth at all costs you have the temerity to tell me to get a clue...:lamo





I know, I know, you are upset at looking foolish, so my name is a misnomer. Boo hoo.
Click to expand...

duh and boo hoo... and you think I am upset about appearing foolish

yeah okay

peace out

I'm done
 
t4pi0k4 said:

No they absolutely do not portray it like that! That’s how right-wing media is used to framing this popular movement with the sole purposeof debasing its momentum.




I believe it is fallacious to parallel black on black crimes with the manifold cases of police forces shooting unarmed black people! The police is here to protect and serve not to reboot judge Dredd andplay judge and executioner at the same time.
Moreover it is completely ludicrous to read a conservative leaning dude urging us to fall back on statistics to convince us that all this is merefutility given the insignificant figures at stake while every single elected john in the Republican party nowadays feels things things instead of relying on facts, and I quote, Paul Ryan – The economy does not FEEL good-, New Grinwitch -I predicate my political agency on people’s FEELINGS NOT FACTS- etc.
So please spare us the lecture!
Police officer killing black unarmed dude on camera DOES NOT FEEL RIGHT (and is not for that matter), hence black lives matter.

Never forget who is the invader, and in the case of blacks who brought them to America and under which circumstances!
Click to expand...
So lets, if Black Lives really do Matter, deal with BOTH. Not ignore one, which is a HUGE problem while the other, pun intended, PALES in comparison.

I will give you that the police are here to serve. Here to serve EVERYBODY... sometimes to protect the innocent you have to make some hard decisions. When its between innocent/law abiding versus law breakers/valid threats, whatever the colors/races involved in whatever percentage, you err on the side of defending right against the wrong.

We are human and therefore correspondingly imperfect. So mistakes, both of omission and commission will inevitably be made. We work to prevent that, weed out the bad seeds wherever we find them. Ignoring the bigger of the two problems will not solve the problem by focusing primarily on the lesser.

Should go without saying, but there, I said it.
 
Gaugingcatenate said:
So lets, if Black Lives really do Matter, deal with BOTH. Not ignore one, which is a HUGE problem while the other, pun intended, PALES in comparison.

I will give you that the police are here to serve. Here to serve EVERYBODY... sometimes to protect the innocent you have to make some hard decisions. When its between innocent/law abiding versus law breakers/valid threats, whatever the colors/races involved in whatever percentage, you err on the side of defending right against the wrong.

We are human and therefore correspondingly imperfect. So mistakes, both of omission and commission will inevitably be made. We work to prevent that, weed out the bad seeds wherever we find them. Ignoring the bigger of the two problems will not solve the problem by focusing primarily on the lesser.

Should go without saying, but there, I said it.
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I love my cat! That does not mean I don't love other cats
o_0
the All Lives Matter or Blue Lives Matter are soundbites peddled by right-wing media with the sole and sad purpose of stopping the momentum of BLM.
the reality is that black people are afraid for their lives whenever they run across the police. White people are not! Hence Black lives matter
 
BLM is nothing but a political group formed because of the presidential election.

Their mantra "Hands Up Don't Shoot" is a complete and total lie! It never happened!
There narrative that a police officer is the biggest threat to a black male is an out right lie.
Why aren't they in Chicago protesting the extreme violence that visits the City everyday?
 
t4pi0k4 said:
I love my cat! That does not mean I don't love other cats
o_0
the All Lives Matter or Blue Lives Matter are soundbites peddled by right-wing media with the sole and sad purpose of stopping the momentum of BLM.
the reality is that black people are afraid for their lives whenever they run across the police. White people are not! Hence Black lives matter
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Sorry, I live in Panama now, haven't watched TV since 2004, did not tune into Fox even then and don't listen to talk radio so my opinions are formed by me going out on the internet to research the topics that interest me ...

So, your premise on all lives matter is lost on me. Its just common sense that all lives matter, and its not just lives lost to police, the overwhelming amount of which, no matter the color, are justified or at least plausibly so. To have a movement so specifically focused on an almost nonexistent real problem, understanding each being a tragedy, when the impact of so many lives, of all races, being lost to Blacks themselves... is simply ludicrous.

What you are saying and not intending to is that since so many White lives are disproportionately lost to a significantly lower Black population that white people should be afraid for their lives whenever they come into contact with Black people... if that is the case with Black people and the police.

Right? Are we in agreement here? Or are we ready to just say its just plain silly?

I will leave you with the FBI 2013 expanded homicide data table numbers just as an example. https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u....f_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls

Whites make up around 63 % of the population and Blacks about 12 %. Of the murders in 2013 the number of White victims came to 3005, Black victims 2491. Of those White victims 409 were killed by Blacks. Of the Black victims 189 were killed by Whites. So, even though Whites make up that much higher percentage of the population, they kill far fewer Blacks than the very much smaller Black population killing far more Whites. Vastly disproportionate to their populations.

So whites [ 63% ] account for perpetrating a total of 2755 murders and blacks [ 12% ] account for 2698... near equivalent in total murders. Vastly disproportionate to their populations.



What is the big problem is that Blacks kill Blacks on a level out of control comparatively. Blacks, out of those 2491 murder victims kill about 2245 of their own brothers and sisters. Sorry, cannot blame the police or whitey for those numbers. We "crackers" have nothing to do with it...

If the Black community cannot or will not try to make any real progress in raising attention to solve this major problem, its high time that America, black, white, red, yellow, brown and unknown come together and step into the Black communities to come up with solutions to this largely ignored situation.

Wasting efforts, or going on to be destructive and obstructive to those who have done nothing wrong, on something that occurs so rarely just makes the rest of us understand that some, too many, just want to complain and point fingers at others, not solve their own real problems.

Myself, I am getting tired of hearing the cries of wolf wolf and am saying 900 lb gorilla 900 lb gorilla.
 
Gaugingcatenate said:
Valid question: Who ever tried to justify killing anyone for no reason? Can you point out that person and exactly where they said that, because I would like to join with you in heartily condemning them.

Wizard of Oz sized straw man. Crystal clear in its transparent irrelevancy and disingenuity.

Know much about the numbers on the topic? Glanced at or studied the percentage make up by race of our population? How much of the crime is committed from each racial group? For instance, as comparison what is the % of the white race? What is its % of crime. Same about incarceration levels. What about victimization rates? Who, %s, commits crime on who? Those kinds of answers.

Then jump down to: How does that compare to police killings ["crime"], % of fatal encounters per general encounters, % ruled unjustified, % not armed, % by race killed by police, % by race killing, etc...

If Black Lives truly mattered, where is our area of largest concern? Intellectual honesty please. Is it right that what seems to rank highest on the priority list should be that simply statistically rare instance wherein a white cop [or any cop as has now been evidenced by the currently trending Charlotte "protest"] shoots and/or kills a black person?

Were you actually truly color blind and tasked with figuring out logically where to start to solve the biggest issue in the violent deaths of blacks, where would that truth arrow land? If that is so, is it not the height of hypocrisy to be taking on a minority, police officers in the USA, and at the same time ignoring the egregious actual travesty being visited upon our black populations, especially those in urban venues, everyday?

Here is another if. If by chance our black brothers and sisters cannot overcome this difficulty by themselves, is it not compassionate to step in and assist?

All of us together, no races just Americans. Just a thought.
Click to expand...

Your argument boils down to no cause of death should be addressed (singled out?) if it is not among the top causes of death. Are you just as adamant about dismissing groups (campaigns?) that focus on "fighting" breast cancer or DUI? BLM has some valid points about police use of deadly force but also many invalid points about reparations and removing LEOs from schools.
 
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