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Question for Trump supporters...

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CriticalThought

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What is Trump's current immigration policy?
 
That's a gotcha question!

;)
 
Strange, there do not seem to be any supporters that can answer that question, shocking.
 
Even Trump don't know ...
 
BrewerBob said:
That's a gotcha question!

;)
Click to expand...

Three months ago it was...

-Ban ALL Muslims
-Deport ALL Illegals
-Build a border wall paid for by Mexico

Now, nobody seems to know. His own campaign manager does not even seem to know. It is his plank issue. He built his support primarily off of that issue. And I have no idea what his plan is, or whether or not he even has a plan. Remember Herman Cain and the 9-9-9 plan? This feels exactly the same. I have to know if his supporters are as confused as the rest of us.
 
I can answer that. He is for stopping illegal immigration and all the ugliest things that come with it, and he is for following the law of the land. His has stumbled in his rhetoric trying to find some way to get his policy out there past an MSM who has succeeded in making it look as hateful as possible.

So for me it is a no brainer.

Do you want a Hillary Clinton who WANTS all those new Democratic voters in the country and panders like nobody I've ever seen to win their favor?
Do you want a Gary Johnson who wants open borders without restrictions?
Do you want a Donald Trump who wants to get illegal immigration under control?

It is as simple as that.
 
AlbqOwl said:
I can answer that. He is for stopping illegal immigration and all the ugliest things that come with it, and he is for following the law of the land. His has stumbled in his rhetoric trying to find some way to get his policy out there past an MSM who has succeeded in making it look as hateful as possible.

So for me it is a no brainer.

Do you want a Hillary Clinton who WANTS all those new Democratic voters in the country and panders like nobody I've ever seen to win their favor?
Do you want a Gary Johnson who wants open borders without restrictions?
Do you want a Donald Trump who wants to get illegal immigration under control?

It is as simple as that.
Click to expand...

"Stopping illegal immigration" is not a policy, it is an ideal or goal. A policy is a course of action a person will pursue to accomplish an ideal or goal. In other words, as a supporter of Trump, can you explain HOW he intends to "stop illegal immigrantion"?

As a supporter, do you even care how he intends to do it, or how feasible or humane his methods would be?
 
Last edited:
CriticalThought said:
"Stopping illegal immigration" is not a policy, it is an ideal or goal. A policy is a course of action a person will pursue to accomplish an ideal or goal. In other words, as a supporter of Trump, can you explain HOW he intends to "stop illegal immigrantion"?

As a supporter, do you even care how he intends to do it, or how feasible or humane his methods would be?
Click to expand...

The President cannot legally do anything different than existing laws without the consent of Congress, and Trump knows that, but he expects his negotiating skills to be able to get consent as necessary. His first priority has been to build the wall to give law enforcement a better chance to stop the flow of illegals, some of whom are really bad people, across the border and help stop the easy flow of bad drugs into our country. Then he wants to enforce existing immigration laws which are quite adequate if enforced; however he has now softened the toughest approach to be reasonable about it. And he has said again and again that it all will be done as humanely as possible; something, the MSM refuses to report.

Now tell me. Is that a more specific policy than Hillary's who wants to grant blanket amnesty and do nothing to enforce existing immigration laws. Or Gary Johnson who wants open borders entirely with no restrictions? Even Obama has done a better job than that.
 
AlbqOwl said:
The President cannot legally do anything different than existing laws without the consent of Congress, and Trump knows that, but he expects his negotiating skills to be able to get consent as necessary. His first priority has been to build the wall to give law enforcement a better chance to stop the flow of illegals, some of whom are really bad people, across the border and help stop the easy flow of bad drugs into our country. Then he wants to enforce existing immigration laws which are quite adequate if enforced; however he has now softened the toughest approach to be reasonable about it. And he has said again and again that it all will be done as humanely as possible; something, the MSM refuses to report.

Now tell me. Is that a more specific policy than Hillary's who wants to grant blanket amnesty and do nothing to enforce existing immigration laws. Or Gary Johnson who wants open borders entirely with no restrictions? Even Obama has done a better job than that.
Click to expand...

Bu he Not going to build the wall. Nor is he going to round up those 11 Million here and deport them. FLIP - FLOP

Please quote where Clinton said anything you claimed above, should be interesting.

Clue, if you want to beat someone in an election try doing it with honesty, one cannot whine about the other person being a Liar and then use Lies to attempt to gain an advantage, people eventually put two and two together and see what is being pushed, well the intelligent ones do.
 
AlbqOwl said:
I can answer that. He is for stopping illegal immigration and all the ugliest things that come with it, and he is for following the law of the land. His has stumbled in his rhetoric trying to find some way to get his policy out there past an MSM who has succeeded in making it look as hateful as possible.

So for me it is a no brainer.

Do you want a Hillary Clinton who WANTS all those new Democratic voters in the country and panders like nobody I've ever seen to win their favor?
Do you want a Gary Johnson who wants open borders without restrictions?
Do you want a Donald Trump who wants to get illegal immigration under control?

It is as simple as that.
Click to expand...
I find this a very reasonable rebuttal.

Good work defending a difficult position in a hostile environment.
 
CriticalThought said:
"Stopping illegal immigration" is not a policy, it is an ideal or goal. A policy is a course of action a person will pursue to accomplish an ideal or goal. In other words, as a supporter of Trump, can you explain HOW he intends to "stop illegal immigrantion"?

As a supporter, do you even care how he intends to do it, or how feasible or humane his methods would be?
Click to expand...

Since it appears you are neither interested in discussing the topic, nor will you accept any "Trump supporters" comments, perhaps you can get a magnifying glass and apply it to some small animals in the area, perhaps that will provide a greater sense of satisfaction.
 
AlbqOwl said:
I can answer that. He is for stopping illegal immigration and all the ugliest things that come with it, and he is for following the law of the land. His has stumbled in his rhetoric trying to find some way to get his policy out there past an MSM who has succeeded in making it look as hateful as possible.
Click to expand...
Those aren't policies. They're platitudes.

And no, Trump's flopping, indecisiveness, and conflict with his own campaign staff has nothing to do with the media. Any major Presidential candidate has more than sufficient resources to distribute a message in a coherent and clear way, including but not limited to:

- via campaign website
- Appearing on friendly media (e..g. Sean Hannity town hall on Fox)
- via social media
- in rallies (where his position currently changes by the day... or hour)
- by focusing the campaign on a specific message for the week (something Trump is constitutionally incapable of doing)


Do you want a Hillary Clinton who WANTS all those new Democratic voters in the country and panders like nobody I've ever seen to win their favor?
Do you want a Gary Johnson who wants open borders without restrictions?
Do you want a Donald Trump who wants to get illegal immigration under control?

It is as simple as that.
Click to expand...
If it was as simple as that, we wouldn't have this thread.

We have no idea what he actually wants to do, and thus no way to know if it would be effective, would do anything resembling what he promises, is changing his position to develop something more humane, is changing to conform to existing US law, is changing out of political expediency, is actually being consistent.... There is no way to judge this without knowing what he actually wants to do, which is -- at best -- currently in flux.
 
Chomsky said:
I find this a very reasonable rebuttal.

Good work defending a difficult position in a hostile environment.
Click to expand...

I'm looking for actual policies, though.

So far Trump hasn't provided any.
 
One thing I find interesting is that, while Donald Trump's opinions seem to depend on what day of the week it is, there's definitely some evidence to think he is moderating his position on immigration. What's interesting about that is that so many people who vilified and criticized him for having a more extreme stance now seem to be criticizing him and villifying him for moderating his stance.

While there is certainly an argument to be made that one needs to know how a candidate feels about a subject, there is also an argument to be made that if someone tends to move towards an opinion you claim to hold, but you verbally flog him anyways, then it seems like you really aren't interested in his opinion, but rather criticizing him. And that's just poor form.

It may be hard to say exactly where Trump is on immigration right now, but if he is indeed moving more towards the middle on the topic, then people who were against him before should be encouraged and encouraging, not villifying.
Casper said:
Strange, there do not seem to be any supporters that can answer that question, shocking.
Click to expand...
You gave them six minutes... :roll:
 
TheGoverness said:
I'm looking for actual policies, though.

So far Trump hasn't provided any.
Click to expand...
Yeah, greed.

In specifics, he's all over the place.

But I think Owl did a good job in laying-out the general conceptual messaging here.

Early-on in the primary when it became clear Bernie was not going to succeed, I gave Trump a very hard look. He had yet to go fully gonzo, and his exact positions were murky, but I was considering him due to general ideology.

Unfortunately (for him), he subsequently went deep, erratic, near delusional, and hate-filled, thereby losing the possibility of getting my vote.

But in the big-picture, I do think he often has the right message in general - but he's the wrong messenger (and his specifics suck).

Probably my biggest qualm with him though, is his nationalistic hate mongering. Argh! His lack of discipline & self-control doesn't rank too highly with me, either.
 
AlbqOwl said:
His first priority has been to build the wall to give law enforcement a better chance to stop the flow of illegals, some of whom are really bad people, across the border and help stop the easy flow of bad drugs into our country. Then he wants to enforce existing immigration laws which are quite adequate if enforced; however he has now softened the toughest approach to be reasonable about it.
Click to expand...
Yes, and that is the crux of the issue. What on Earth does that mean?

There is no humane or "reasonable" way to deport 11 million people.

Each person accused of residing in the US without authorization must be given due process. Do you detain all 11 million people? Where will they reside, during their deportation hearings? Are we going to take over Western Texas and put a few million people in detention centers? If you let them stay at home, what's to stop them from skipping out, and forcing a reboot of due process?

If the parents are unauthorized immigrants, and the children are born in the US, then the kids are citizens. How is separating those families "humane?"


And he has said again and again that it all will be done as humanely as possible; something, the MSM refuses to report.
Click to expand...
lol... No, it's reported. The problem is that one minute he says he wants to engage in mass deportation, the next he promises to do it "humanely;" the next, he says "no amnesty, but they can pay back taxes, we'll work with them!" But he has not explained what he's actually going to do.


Now tell me. Is that a more specific policy than Hillary's who wants to grant blanket amnesty and do nothing to enforce existing immigration laws.
Click to expand...
1) No.
2) That's not her policy.

Here's Clinton's own campaign site:
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/immigration-reform/

It turns out Trump does have some specifics, but also lots of gaping holes:
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/immigration-reform

- build the wall
- make Mexico pay for it (lol)
- triple the number of ICE officers
- e-Verify
- deport those convicted of crimes
- defund sanctuary cities (lol)
- end birthright citizenship (easy peasy)
- increase wages for H1B (lol)
- jobs program for inner city youth (yes, seriously, that's one of his immigration planks)

Nothing in there explains how to handle the 11 million unauthorized immigrants already in the US -- or how to stop the flood of Asian unauthorized immigrants, who are increasingly coming to the US, and aren't coming in from the Southern border....

Asians Now Outpace Mexicans In Terms of Undocumented Growth - The Atlantic
 
ocean515 said:
Since it appears you are neither interested in discussing the topic, nor will you accept any "Trump supporters" comments, perhaps you can get a magnifying glass and apply it to some small animals in the area, perhaps that will provide a greater sense of satisfaction.
Click to expand...

The quote in your sig is out of context and deceitful. And you wonder why few people accept anything Trump supporters have to say?

Here's what Hillary actually said....

HILLARY CLINTON: Well, I'm glad you asked me that, because some on the other side who are already advocating to deport 11, 12 million people...

I find it the height of irony that a party which espouses small government would want to unleash a massive government effort, which might include national guard and others, to go and literally pull people out of their homes and their workplaces, round them up and, I don't know, put them in buses or boxcars, in order to take them across the border.

I find that absurd but appalling. And that's why I support comprehensive immigration reform.
Click to expand...
Hillary Clinton: Republicans Want To Round Up Illegal Immigrants And Put Them In "Boxcars" | Video | RealClearPolitics
​

Trump supporters are out of touch with the rest of America...and that's why he's losing in the polls.

Most people in America, an overwhelming 76%, believe these immigrants are as hard working as U.S. citizens, and 67% say they are no more likely than Americans to commit serious crimes. Sixty-one percent oppose building a wall along the border with Mexico.

But among Trump backers, it’s another picture.

Fully half of Trump backers believe the immigrants are more likely to commit crimes, though other studies have suggested this is not true. And one in three say the immigrants are not as hard working as Americans. For Trump fans, 79% favor his signature campaign promise, often chanted at rallies, to “build the wall!”....
Click to expand...
Politics - Los Angeles Times​
 
Moot said:
The quote in your sig is out of context and deceitful. And you wonder why few people accept anything Trump supporters have to say?

Here's what Hillary actually said....


Trump supporters are out of touch with the rest of America...and that's why he's losing in the polls.

Click to expand...

The quote in my signature line is verbatim from Hillary Clinton.

Context has apparently been banned this election season by Hillary Clinton, her entire staff, the DNC, Democratic Party Memebers, Liberal/Socialist Progressives, and the majority of the major players in the MSM.

Please contact any one of the above to address your concerns regarding context. They are the ones who have decided to remove it from consideration.

Since they established the rules, Hillary's plans to deal with illegal aliens can be viewed below.
 
Casper said:
Bu he Not going to build the wall. Nor is he going to round up those 11 Million here and deport them. FLIP - FLOP

Please quote where Clinton said anything you claimed above, should be interesting.

Clue, if you want to beat someone in an election try doing it with honesty, one cannot whine about the other person being a Liar and then use Lies to attempt to gain an advantage, people eventually put two and two together and see what is being pushed, well the intelligent ones do.
Click to expand...

Check all her position on immigration on "On the Issues". You can google it and it will come right up on your browser.

In a nutshell her position is:

Hillary Clinton supports a path to citizenship for the millions of people living in the United States illegally because it would be impractical to deport them all. She has said, however, that those who have committed crimes while living American illegally should not be permitted to stay here.

Clinton has said she favors "humane, targeted, and effective" enforcement of the laws against illegal immigration in the United States. Her presidential campaign has said she believes deportation should be used only on "individuals who pose a violent threat to public safety."

Read More: Hillary Clinton on the Issues​

Now show me the evidence that Trump will not build the wall.
 
ocean515 said:
The quote in my signature line is verbatim from Hillary Clinton.

Context has apparently been banned this election season by Hillary Clinton, her entire staff, the DNC, Democratic Party Memebers, Liberal/Socialist Progressives, and the majority of the major players in the MSM.

Please contact any one of the above to address your concerns regarding context. They are the ones who have decided to remove it from consideration.

Since they established the rules, Hillary's plans to deal with illegal aliens can be viewed below.
Click to expand...

You're the one taking her quote out of context to deceive people and then whining why no one takes Trump supporters seriously.
 
Visbek said:
Those aren't policies. They're platitudes.

And no, Trump's flopping, indecisiveness, and conflict with his own campaign staff has nothing to do with the media. Any major Presidential candidate has more than sufficient resources to distribute a message in a coherent and clear way, including but not limited to:

- via campaign website
- Appearing on friendly media (e..g. Sean Hannity town hall on Fox)
- via social media
- in rallies (where his position currently changes by the day... or hour)
- by focusing the campaign on a specific message for the week (something Trump is constitutionally incapable of doing)



If it was as simple as that, we wouldn't have this thread.

We have no idea what he actually wants to do, and thus no way to know if it would be effective, would do anything resembling what he promises, is changing his position to develop something more humane, is changing to conform to existing US law, is changing out of political expediency, is actually being consistent.... There is no way to judge this without knowing what he actually wants to do, which is -- at best -- currently in flux.
Click to expand...

And what in your comments would not qualify as 'platitudes' if my post was 'platitudes?'
 
Visbek said:
Yes, and that is the crux of the issue. What on Earth does that mean?

There is no humane or "reasonable" way to deport 11 million people.

Each person accused of residing in the US without authorization must be given due process. Do you detain all 11 million people? Where will they reside, during their deportation hearings? Are we going to take over Western Texas and put a few million people in detention centers? If you let them stay at home, what's to stop them from skipping out, and forcing a reboot of due process?

If the parents are unauthorized immigrants, and the children are born in the US, then the kids are citizens. How is separating those families "humane?"



lol... No, it's reported. The problem is that one minute he says he wants to engage in mass deportation, the next he promises to do it "humanely;" the next, he says "no amnesty, but they can pay back taxes, we'll work with them!" But he has not explained what he's actually going to do.



1) No.
2) That's not her policy.

Here's Clinton's own campaign site:
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/immigration-reform/

It turns out Trump does have some specifics, but also lots of gaping holes:
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/immigration-reform

- build the wall
- make Mexico pay for it (lol)
- triple the number of ICE officers
- e-Verify
- deport those convicted of crimes
- defund sanctuary cities (lol)
- end birthright citizenship (easy peasy)
- increase wages for H1B (lol)
- jobs program for inner city youth (yes, seriously, that's one of his immigration planks)

Nothing in there explains how to handle the 11 million unauthorized immigrants already in the US -- or how to stop the flood of Asian unauthorized immigrants, who are increasingly coming to the US, and aren't coming in from the Southern border....

Asians Now Outpace Mexicans In Terms of Undocumented Growth - The Atlantic
Click to expand...

Do you always use this much hyperbole when responding to another member's post?
 
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