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Which is Worse?

Trump winning is worse for the Republicans. if Clinton wins, at this point, it's looking like one term, a gain for the Republicans during the midterms, and a serious chance at 2020 if they pull their heads out of their asses and nominate someone who isn't a drooling idiot. if Trump wins, he'll do some serious damage for two years, and then his friendly congress will most likely be yanked out from under him by the electorate. he'll hurt the country's image on the world stage, but he'll also hit the Republican brand with an RPG. then it's on the Democrats to nominate someone who isn't an idiot to do some restoration work. that person would likely serve two terms with a friendly congress, and then the VP will serve at least one before the cycle shifts again. that's my opinion, at least.
 
Exquisitor said:
No, I'm just glad to see you.
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With a pasty in your pocket I hope?


Exquisitor said:
I like the way "we" sounds sometimes so I use it.

"We" can refer to me, myself and I, could be self derogatory (mocking my insanity,) refer to the Divinity ("Let us make man in our image,") conform to Biblical cadence or refer to aspects of the divinity that manifest as multiple persons such as the Trinity or Panca Tattva (five avatars that appeared 500 years ago in India.)
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Wow!
All that to say nothing of import.
You didn't even address the most important part, pasties. Nom, nom, nom.
 
Helix said:
Trump winning is worse for the Republicans. if Clinton wins, at this point, it's looking like one term, a gain for the Republicans during the midterms, and a serious chance at 2020 if they pull their heads out of their asses and nominate someone who isn't a drooling idiot. if Trump wins, he'll do some serious damage for two years, and then his friendly congress will most likely be yanked out from under him by the electorate. he'll hurt the country's image on the world stage, but he'll also hit the Republican brand with an RPG. then it's on the Democrats to nominate someone who isn't an idiot to do some restoration work. that person would likely serve two terms with a friendly congress, and then the VP will serve at least one before the cycle shifts again. that's my opinion, at least.
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Good analysis. I think you are probably correct.

I suspect either Hillary or Donald to be only a one term POTUS.

It really depends on whether the US Senate stays GOP or goes DEM this time around, more than who is POTUS, as to what will happen on the SCOTUS.

I really hope the Senate stays GOP.
 
Riveroaks said:
I don't believe Trump will be responsible for this.

I think Hillary can bring this down on the GOP herself no matter whom she is opposing.

It all depends if all the female voters turn out on election day and vote for Hillary or not.

The day the USA gave women the power of voting it gave them power over men in the USA and probably over the rest of the world too.

Hillary's election will be proof enough of that.

Whereas I would have preferred Madeline Albright to Hillary Clinton as far as the first female chief executive goes, Hillary worked hard to get into position for this.

She deserves it more than Madeline then.
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It will be fun to watch.
 
Riveroaks said:
Good analysis. I think you are probably correct.

I suspect either Hillary or Donald to be only a one term POTUS.

It really depends on whether the US Senate stays GOP or goes DEM this time around, more than who is POTUS, as to what will happen on the SCOTUS.

I really hope the Senate stays GOP.
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it's likely that at least the house will. i dislike both of these candidates, so i think that a divided government is about the best we can do during this cycle.
 
Helix said:
Trump winning is worse for the Republicans. if Clinton wins, at this point, it's looking like one term, a gain for the Republicans during the midterms, and a serious chance at 2020 if they pull their heads out of their asses and nominate someone who isn't a drooling idiot. if Trump wins, he'll do some serious damage for two years, and then his friendly congress will most likely be yanked out from under him by the electorate. he'll hurt the country's image on the world stage, but he'll also hit the Republican brand with an RPG. then it's on the Democrats to nominate someone who isn't an idiot to do some restoration work. that person would likely serve two terms with a friendly congress, and then the VP will serve at least one before the cycle shifts again. that's my opinion, at least.
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Trump may be the presumptive candidate, but it is presumption to assume the electorate would grant him the presidency AND both houses. With careful planning and strategic spending, Trump may be able to land enough electoral college votes to make the White House. But he is so divisive, the more he gains on the presidency, the less likely the electorate will want to vote Republican to help him.

By Trump making Obama look more presidential, the anticipated anti-Obama vote theory is no longer on the table, and the House at least is in play, if not the Senate as well. I really do not want to think about a Trump White House and control of both houses. Trump would make Nixon look like a saint; they wont just be breaking into journalist's psychiatrists offices. The reporter who takes on Trump those circumstances would be wise to have a new identity in a place without cell service.
 
Helix said:
Trump winning is worse for the Republicans. if Clinton wins, at this point, it's looking like one term, a gain for the Republicans during the midterms, and a serious chance at 2020 if they pull their heads out of their asses and nominate someone who isn't a drooling idiot. if Trump wins, he'll do some serious damage for two years, and then his friendly congress will most likely be yanked out from under him by the electorate. he'll hurt the country's image on the world stage, but he'll also hit the Republican brand with an RPG. then it's on the Democrats to nominate someone who isn't an idiot to do some restoration work. that person would likely serve two terms with a friendly congress, and then the VP will serve at least one before the cycle shifts again. that's my opinion, at least.
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I don't know how anyone could hurt the US image more. We are perceived as weak, untrustworthy, and indecisive. I think it is time we stop worrying about what other countries think. We need to take care of America first and do it in a way that suits Americans, not Americas critics.
 
Fearandloathing said:
Trump may be the presumptive candidate, but it is presumption to assume the electorate would grant him the presidency AND both houses. With careful planning and strategic spending, Trump may be able to land enough electoral college votes to make the White House. But he is so divisive, the more he gains on the presidency, the less likely the electorate will want to vote Republican to help him.
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yes, but if he wins, he's likely to have at least two years of a potentially friendly congress. a lot can happen in two years.

Fearandloathing said:
By Trump making Obama look more presidential, the anticipated anti-Obama vote theory is no longer on the table, and the House at least is in play, if not the Senate as well. I really do not want to think about a Trump White House and control of both houses. Trump would make Nixon look like a saint; they wont just be breaking into journalist's psychiatrists offices. The reporter who takes on Trump those circumstances would be wise to have a new identity in a place without cell service.
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if he wins, 2018 for the Democrats looks like 1994 for Republicans, in my opinion.
 
of course the GOP dislikes obama, he's a democrat
 
Helix said:
yes, but if he wins, he's likely to have at least two years of a potentially friendly congress. a lot can happen in two years.



if he wins, 2018 for the Democrats looks like 1994 for Republicans, in my opinion.
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If the Democrats can't re-take at least one part of congress, they don't deserve to be in office. It's not like the sitting majority has scored any points with the electorate. They've had control for over a year and haven't accomplished ONE THING other than blocking Obama. If they had a platform, we'd be seeing it. I believe Trump has increased the odds on a Democrat rout one way or the other.
 
Fearandloathing said:
If the Democrats can't re-take at least one part of congress, they don't deserve to be in office. It's not like the sitting majority has scored any points with the electorate. They've had control for over a year and haven't accomplished ONE THING other than blocking Obama. If they had a platform, we'd be seeing it. I believe Trump has increased the odds on a Democrat rout one way or the other.
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the DNC leadership is awful. i mean, FFS, the first thing that the presumptive nominee decides to talk about is gun control? the level of mismanagement is sad, especially when the other candidate is unfit for office and would have a somewhat friendly congress for a while.
 
Fearandloathing said:
If the Democrats can't re-take at least one part of congress, they don't deserve to be in office. It's not like the sitting majority has scored any points with the electorate. They've had control for over a year and haven't accomplished ONE THING other than blocking Obama. If they had a platform, we'd be seeing it. I believe Trump has increased the odds on a Democrat rout one way or the other.
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Greetings, F & L. :2wave:

Since both parties are having unusual problems with millions of voters this year due to their anger and disgust with the status quo - hence the Trump/Sanders phenomena - so what is the solution? Most people like the party they're registered with, but they want perceived corruption, favoritism, and bribery to stop, and leadership more in line with what the majority want, which is a better life for themselves and their families. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I can't think of any other explanation to explain what I see. :shrug:
 
Jesse Booth said:
Trump would definitely hurt the Republicans in the short run, possibly even fracturing the party. Whatever comes after him will hopefully learn from the past, and be more... functional. Responsible. Opposed to pandering to fear and anger for quick, easy, and short-lived political gain. You pick your own descriptor.
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I'm already seeing an increasing number of conservatives shrugging and basically saying, "Welp, if Trump's our guy then Trump's our guy, I guess." So realistically I don't think he'll fracture his party but rather set the tone of the new normal, thereby permanently lowering the quality of the national dialogue as a whole.
 
Cardinal said:
I'm already seeing an increasing number of conservatives shrugging and basically saying, "Welp, if Trump's our guy then Trump's our guy, I guess." So realistically I don't think he'll fracture his party but rather set the tone of the new normal, thereby permanently lowering the quality of the national dialogue as a whole.
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Or he could destroy the status quo which has created the mess we are in today. Isn't it time for someone to stop focusing on being liked and instead doing what is right to earn respect?
 
Conservative said:
Or he could destroy the status quo which has created the mess we are in today. Isn't it time for someone to stop focusing on being liked and instead doing what is right to earn respect?
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Or he could destroy the status quo, not focus on being liked and end up creating something much, much worse. Based on the type of chaos that keeps him in the news and amused, I'm going to guess that chaos will be his trademark. If he's elected President, I have little doubt that his supporters will achieve their desire to live in more interesting times.
 
Cardinal said:
Or he could destroy the status quo, not focus on being liked and end up creating something much, much worse. Based on the type of chaos that keeps him in the news and amused, I'm going to guess that chaos will be his trademark. If he's elected President, I have little doubt that his supporters will achieve their desire to live in more interesting times.
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You are making me more of a Trump supporter, thanks, exactly what we need to turn this country from an entitlement society back to personal responsibility which is a lost art with the left. Time for some tough love and I love it
 
Conservative said:
You are making me more of a Trump supporter, thanks, exactly what we need to turn this country from an entitlement society back to personal responsibility which is a lost art with the left. Time for some tough love and I love it
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Do I have that same power to convince you to watch all 110 episodes of Northern Exposure in a row....twice? These are dangerous abilities I appear to have, and I haven't yet decided if I should use them for good or evil.
 
polgara said:
Greetings, F & L. :2wave:

Since both parties are having unusual problems with millions of voters this year due to their anger and disgust with the status quo - hence the Trump/Sanders phenomena - so what is the solution? Most people like the party they're registered with, but they want perceived corruption, favoritism, and bribery to stop, and leadership more in line with what the majority want, which is a better life for themselves and their families. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I can't think of any other explanation to explain what I see. :shrug:
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Take a look at Austria's elections, what's happening in Australia....

In all there are many similar undercurrents, not the least of which is a push back against Islam. Same with the British vote on whether to stay in the EU. Older, more conservative voters want out in the belief of financial security and "tighter" immigration laws.

Austria's two major parties were completely shut out of run off elections and the finally tally, with mail in votes was a .06% plurality. The Brit vote is just as close.

It appears we're the only ones bucking a trend. The prime minister got into some shenanigans in the commons where a female NDP member was elbowed in the chest. Did it hurt Trudeau? Actually the major commentators are ripping the opposition for making too much of a small thing, and have nominated the female member for "best actor".

It is hard to say where all this leads. I have never seen the likes of this
 
Cardinal said:
Do I have that same power to convince you to watch all 110 episodes of Northern Exposure in a row....twice? These are dangerous abilities I appear to have, and I haven't yet decided if I should use them for good or evil.
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I think what bothers me the most is the tone of the anti Trump rhetoric in that it is all about personality and the fact that we might not be LIKED around the world and nothing about his qualifications to be President which are leadership, management skills, and executive experience none of which Hillary has. Let's focus on the Trump results and not perception as to whether or not we will be liked around the world because of Trump?

When I look at the left today it is all about "what they are going to DO for us" and not what they are going to do to enforce the Constitution. I see "free subsidies" for health care, I see "free" education for everyone, I see "minimum" wage increases. I see appeasement for everyone. Let me remind you that there is nothing FREE in this country and all have to be paid for by someone. Those "free" subsidies for ACA come from the taxpayers as do all the other "free" stuff.

On the foreign policy stage appeasement comes at a cost and that cost is human life. Illegals coming across the border are being paid for by the taxpayers. ISIS is using our "freedoms" to destroy us because it is all about appeasement ignoring the Global Caliphate that radical Islam is promoting plus the reality that they only understand one thing, strength and resolve.

So which is worse, to me it is appeasement, to me it is entitlement mentality, to me it is giving people what they want, to me it is a massive central govt., to me it is the lack of understanding by the left on the principles upon which this country was built and the leftwing ideology. States' rights are being ignored and the rights of the minority are being trumped by the rhetoric of the left. So which is worse? The left obviously is worse and it is going to take someone tough like Trump to start the process of reversing decades of liberalism.
 
Cardinal said:
Do I have that same power to convince you to watch all 110 episodes of Northern Exposure in a row....twice? These are dangerous abilities I appear to have, and I haven't yet decided if I should use them for good or evil.
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Use them for evil; there are plenty of people that need to be punished.
 
Conservative said:
I think what bothers me the most is the tone of the anti Trump rhetoric in that it is all about personality and the fact that we might not be LIKED around the world and nothing about his qualifications to be President which are leadership, management skills, and executive experience none of which Hillary has. Let's focus on the Trump results and not perception as to whether or not we will be liked around the world because of Trump?

When I look at the left today it is all about "what they are going to DO for us" and not what they are going to do to enforce the Constitution. I see "free subsidies" for health care, I see "free" education for everyone, I see "minimum" wage increases. I see appeasement for everyone. Let me remind you that there is nothing FREE in this country and all have to be paid for by someone. Those "free" subsidies for ACA come from the taxpayers as do all the other "free" stuff.

On the foreign policy stage appeasement comes at a cost and that cost is human life. Illegals coming across the border are being paid for by the taxpayers. ISIS is using our "freedoms" to destroy us because it is all about appeasement ignoring the Global Caliphate that radical Islam is promoting plus the reality that they only understand one thing, strength and resolve.

So which is worse, to me it is appeasement, to me it is entitlement mentality, to me it is giving people what they want, to me it is a massive central govt., to me it is the lack of understanding by the left on the principles upon which this country was built and the leftwing ideology. States' rights are being ignored and the rights of the minority are being trumped by the rhetoric of the left. So which is worse? The left obviously is worse and it is going to take someone tough like Trump to start the process of reversing decades of liberalism.
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I'm concerned about Trump supporters' cavalier dismissal of any need to be liked. It's as though they never considered the possibility that the world operates on the principle of quid pro quo. Trump isn't even President and he's already announced his willingness to have a grudge match with our strongest and closest ally. This kind of arrogance, that we can go it alone because we are the strongest nation on earth (for now) will meet with a hard retribution.

You bring up the issue of ISIS and its goal of a global caliphate. The rise of such extremism in the Muslim world is a serious problem, and requires a combined effort from our allies, friends and conveniently-if-only-temporarily aligned. The most important allies for the purpose of combating Islamic extremism? If you guessed "Muslim countries?" you'd be 100% correct, since that so often tends to be where Muslim extremism begins. But when Trump isn't busy alienating our closest allies, he's loudly and enthusiastically alienating the entire Muslim world, regardless of whether they are even hotspots of extremism at all. The help that we might otherwise have received from them will be met with a cold reception. Those nations may consider their own best interests, but they most certainly will have no motivation to consider ours.

So thanks, but I'll go with the candidate that wants to be liked around the world. That's how global stability in any form is maintained, your personal feelings regarding PC not withstanding. We are the strongest nation on earth because of our own efforts, yes, but we are also the strongest nation because of the careful and close relations we have forged with other nations. This is a ludicrously basic concept that Trump and his supporters are unable to grasp, and why I say that Trump would be a Chaos President.
 
Cardinal;1065894942]I'm concerned about Trump supporters' cavalier dismissal of any need to be liked. It's as though they never considered the possibility that the world operates on the principle of quid pro quo. Trump isn't even President and he's already announced his willingness to have a grudge match with our strongest and closest ally. This kind of arrogance, that we can go it alone because we are the strongest nation on earth (for now) will meet with a hard retribution.
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Keep buying what the left tells you as you remain and "American Idol" voter. What grudge match? You think keeping our borders open and paying for illegals is good for America?? I do realize that being strong is tough on people like you but it is what made us great and we have saved MILLIONS and MILLIONS because of that strength including MUSLIMS

You bring up the issue of ISIS and its goal of a global caliphate. The rise of such extremism in the Muslim world is a serious problem, and requires a combined effort from our allies, friends and conveniently-if-only-temporarily aligned. The most important allies for the purpose of combating Islamic extremism? If you guessed "Muslim countries?" you'd be 100% correct, since that so often tends to be where Muslim extremism begins. But when Trump isn't busy alienating our closest allies, he's loudly and enthusiastically alienating the entire Muslim world, regardless of whether they are even hotspots of extremism at all. The help that we might otherwise have received from them will be met with a cold reception. Those nations may consider their own best interests, but they most certainly will have no motivation to consider ours.
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Yet you believe Arab countries run by dictators are going to address the problem. Ask the French and the people of Belgium what they think appeasement has done to radical Islamic fundamentalists. Most of the people you think are being alienated are uneducated and buy what the controlled media tells them. I would have thought that Americans would think differently but it appears you, too, buys the leftwing spin

So thanks, but I'll go with the candidate that wants to be liked around the world. That's how global stability in any form is maintained, your personal feelings regarding PC not withstanding. We are the strongest nation on earth because of our own efforts, yes, but we are also the strongest nation because of the careful and close relations we have forged with other nations. This is a ludicrously basic concept that Trump and his supporters are unable to grasp, and why I say that Trump would be a Chaos President.
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Of course you will ignoring what is going on with things like the Arab Spring, Libya, Syria, Iraq, France, Belgium. Being a chaos President with the world in this shape is necessary. You think Obama is respected in the world? You really are naïve and gullible.
 
Cardinal said:
Do I have that same power to convince you to watch all 110 episodes of Northern Exposure in a row....twice? These are dangerous abilities I appear to have, and I haven't yet decided if I should use them for good or evil.
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Use them for something completely insignificant, like convincing people to collect gravel... then to convince those same people to not collect gravel. It's what I would do with the power to change the world.
 
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