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Hillary is More than Just a Woman

MrT said:
When you consider the amount of females found in upper level management and governmental positions, relative to the total population, and if we define "establishment" ad the status quo, then she's not wrong.

And I find it interesting for some to claim that we shouldn't reward someone based on their gender or race from birth, and simultaneously ignore the "coincidence" that the previous 45 presidents were all white males.
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Is it awkward that you have to set your pom poms down in order to type out a response? Plus, do you plan to wait until she is actually elected to start a thread proclaiming her to be one of the nations top five presidents, or will you be starting that thread right away?
 
MrT said:
Why don't you go ahead and define misogyny for me then?

Because you clearly believe it is something besides the dictionary definition of "dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women"
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Your definition works just fine.
I guess you don't understand pluralization.

He fighting or saying things about a woman, is not the same as saying things about women.
 
Lol, Hillary is not playing the woman card. (don't focus on the site, it is merely the first one I came across)

Hillary-woman-card.jpg

Hillary offers ‘woman card’ to supporters as campaign focuses on gender | The American Mirror
 
I agree, there can be zero rational debate about whether Hillary Clinton is qualified to be President, but either the technical or the quality standard.

By the technical standard, she is of the age required to run for the job.

By the quality standard, she is completely terrible and unqualified, and of course there is also the fact that she should be brought up on charges - lest we let folks like Edward Snowden, Bradley Manning, and David Petraeus off the hook since we no longer have any standards.

Like Obama, she's running almost entirely on identity politics. She undeniably expects to be voted for because she has a vagina.
 
MrT said:
Setting aside the fact that there are literally dozens of instances of Trump making misogynistic comments, I don't see how you can really defend a naked attack on Hillary that boils her accomplishments down to her "woman card" as not being sexist.
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It's because BENGHAZI!
 
MrT said:
Last night, Trump intentionally made the decision to show that he will not adjust his style to fit the suggestions by Manafort, some made privately, that Trump would act more Presidential. His speech was very similar to every other speech (bragging about his accomplishments, demanding his opponents relinquish the fight, attacking his critics) and then he took questions from the media.

And at the very end of the night, Trump decided to really hammer home just how much Misogyny is a core philosophy to his entire being. When asked whether he considered Hillary to be qualified, he said that she was not in his opinion. And he went further by claiming that the only thing Hillary has going for her is the "woman card." In fact, according to Trump, "If Hillary Clinton were a man, I don't think she would get five percent of the vote."

This event led to a social media ruckus when Mary Pat Christie, Chris Christie's wife, stole the show by demonstrating her disdain behind his head while he made the comment.

First off, Trump, that's not how sexism works. Secondly, there can be ZERO rational debate about whether Hillary is qualified to be President. She is a two term senator, four years as Secretary of State, and has spent eight years in the white house as first lady and before her political career, she was partner at a very prestigious law firm and the national chairwoman of the Children's defense fund. She has served on the boards of multiple corporations, like Walmart, and she served a formal role in attempting her husband to roll out education reform in Arkansas. One could very easily make the argument that Hillary Clinton is One of the Most Qualified Presidential Candidates in History.

Now, we can bicker about whether these qualifications are a good thing - although there is historical evidence to support the notion that inexperience can hurt, like Bill Clinton's awful transition or George W. Bush's deference to white house staff that pushed him around. And we can also bicker about whether Hillary was successful or failed during those periods of her life.

But to boil Hillary Clinton's accomplishments down to the fact that she is woman just goes to further prove the level of sexism that is ingrained into Trump. And while it is true to note that Hillary's favorability among women is only 43%, Trump has a crushingly unfavorable rating among women of 66% with a majority (52%) rating him as very unfavorable.
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Well they're a perfect match and should get married - she's as sexist as he is. She's talked down about men her WHOLE LIFE and continues to do it on the campaign trail.

And so on this: "the only thing Hillary has going for her is the "woman card." In fact, according to Trump, "If Hillary Clinton were a man, I don't think she would get five percent of the vote." and "If Hillary Clinton were a man, I don't think she would get five percent of the vote." -- I agree with Trump.

If Hillary can be sexist and get away with it them apparently Trump can, too.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Well they're a perfect match and should get married - she's as sexist as he is. She's talked down about men her WHOLE LIFE and continues to do it on the campaign trail.
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Do you have something resembling a quote that would act as a source for this accusation?
 
JayDubya said:
I agree, there can be zero rational debate about whether Hillary Clinton is qualified to be President, but either the technical or the quality standard.

By the technical standard, she is of the age required to run for the job.

By the quality standard, she is completely terrible and unqualified, and of course there is also the fact that she should be brought up on charges - lest we let folks like Edward Snowden, Bradley Manning, and David Petraeus off the hook since we no longer have any standards.

Like Obama, she's running almost entirely on identity politics. She undeniably expects to be voted for because she has a vagina.
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I realize that the full extent of your argument for why she is unqualified, based on the quality standard, is that she is completely terrible and unqualified.

Circular much?
 
MrT said:
Do you have something resembling a quote that would act as a source for this accusation?
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Several such things have been quoted and discussed at length here at DP - I'm sure you can find those threads with great ease.
 
She can kill with a smile
She can wound with her eyes
She can ruin your faith with her casual lies
And she only reveals what she wants you to see
She hides like a child
But she's always a woman to me

She can lead you to love
She can take you or leave you
She can ask for the truth
But she'll never believe
And she'll take what you give her as long as it's free
Yeah, she steals like a thief
But she's always a woman to me

[Chorus:]
Oh, she takes care of herself
She can wait if she wants
She's ahead of her time
Oh, and she never gives out
And she never gives in
She just changes her mind

She will promise you more
Than the Garden of Eden
Then she'll carelessly cut you
And laugh while you're bleedin'
But she'll bring out the best
And the worst you can be
Blame it all on yourself
Cause she's always a woman to me

[Chorus:]
Oh, she takes care of herself
She can wait if she wants
She's ahead of her time
Oh, and she never gives out
And she never gives in
She just changes her mind

She is frequently kind
And she's suddenly cruel
She can do as she pleases
She's nobody's fool
But she can't be convicted
She's earned her degree
And the most she will do
Is throw shadows at you
But she's always a woman to me


Some parts don't quite match, but it's like 90% scary accurate.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Several such things have been quoted and discussed at length here at DP - I'm sure you can find those threads with great ease.
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...as could you...theoretically.
 
MrT said:
But to boil Hillary Clinton's accomplishments down to the fact that she is woman just goes to further prove the level of sexism that is ingrained into Trump. And while it is true to note that Hillary's favorability among women is only 43%, Trump has a crushingly unfavorable rating among women of 66% with a majority (52%) rating him as very unfavorable.
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Look, I've got to be honest here, Trump is a misogynistic asshat, but he is about 5% right (and no more). Is he correct in stating that she only got where she is because she's a woman? Please, that's a joke, that's the 95% he's just being a misogynistic clown on. He sounds like a tool saying it, and drives him into the ground deeper and deeper as a misogynistic and a moron (considering that >50% of the electorate are women).

But has Hillary Clinton used her gender this election as a weapon against Bernie Sanders and to drum up support? Yes. Was that a legitimate tactic? No, not in the least. Has it worked? Yeah, it has definitely worked on the older women crowd. Is Trump going to know that she illegitimately used her "But I'm a woman!" shtick and try to maneuver her into hurting herself... He may, we'll see. He can't seem to help himself on this issue.
 
Funny how only 2-3 people out of like 25 in this thread have openly supported Hillary.

:lamo
 
FieldTheorist said:
Look, I've got to be honest here, Trump is a misogynistic asshat, but he is about 5% right (and no more). Is he correct in stating that she only got where she is because she's a woman? Please, that's a joke, that's the 95% he's just being a misogynistic clown on. He sounds like a tool saying it, and drives him into the ground deeper and deeper as a misogynistic and a moron (considering that >50% of the electorate are men).

But has Hillary Clinton used her gender this election as a weapon against Bernie Sanders and to drum up support? Yes. Was that a legitimate tactic? No, not in the least. Has it worked? Yeah, it has definitely worked on the older women crowd. Is Trump going to know that she illegitimately used her "But I'm a woman!" shtick and try to maneuver her into hurting herself... He may, we'll see. He can't seem to help himself on this issue.
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I appreciate the balance of your comment. Certainly there can be no doubt that Hillary has championed her female biology and that is something that should be accepted and applauded. Discussing a personal attribute, particularly one that is a core aspect of who you are as a person, in a positive light like when she uses the fact that a first female president could be a source of motivation for young women today is a good thing.

To the extent that Hillary has used her female status as a weapon - and I must admit that the only instance that I can really think of that happening (with Hillary specifically as opposed to her surrogates/supporters) was fairly early in the campaign when Bernie accused her of yelling about guns and she responded the next day with the line about "when some people hear women talking, they think of them as shouting" [admittedly this might be a confirmation bias issue, but I just tried to research Bernie Sanders sexist to look for the instances where he was accused of sexism as research and that was the only instance I found] - then it is something that can and should be criticized.
 
Abbazorkzog said:
Funny how only 2-3 people out of like 25 in this thread have openly supported Hillary.

:lamo
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I'm a bit more shocked at the lack of criticism against Trump's comment.
 
MrT said:
I appreciate the balance of your comment.
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Cheers.

Certainly there can be no doubt that Hillary has championed her female biology and that is something that should be accepted and applauded.
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We simply differ on this. Should she be accepted as a woman? Yes, if we mean that it shouldn't matter whether she's a woman or a man running for office, and we should judge her based on her policy positions, experience, and past record. Should she "champion her female biology"? Honestly, I have no idea what that actually entails, or how that's relevant to her performing her job as a president, but if you mean that she should present herself as a good role model for women and her existence as being a powerful political figure should be an inspiration for young women, then yeah, those are good things.

On a historic note, is it important and noteworthy that we could have our first female president? Yes, that is obviously historically relevant, and is a statement about how far we have come as a country, but also how far we have to go. I would have had a preference on many other women being the first president (e.g. Elizabeth Warren, Jill Stein, and so on), but there's no question it will be historically relevant. But I didn't vote for Barrack Obama because he was black and I am frankly proud of Obama for not trying to pander votes based off of his skin color. I'm very proud to have worked to get the first black president into office (even if I disagreed with a lot of his policies afterwords), but you shouldn't base who vote for based on what minority they're a part of. This is the leader of the most powerful government in the world.


Discussing a personal attribute, particularly one that is a core aspect of who you are as a person, in a positive light like when she uses the fact that a first female president could be a source of motivation for young women today is a good thing.
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Really, being a woman is a core part of who she is as a person that's relevant for her candidacy? Isn't that the literal opposite of equality? Should this have been a point in favor of Sarah Palin's bid for vice president? Should this have been a point in favor of Carly Fiorina?


To the extent that Hillary has used her female status as a weapon - and I must admit that the only instance that I can really think of that happening (with Hillary specifically as opposed to her surrogates/supporters) was fairly early in the campaign when Bernie accused her of yelling about guns and she responded the next day with the line about "when some people hear women talking, they think of them as shouting"
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There's a number of instances of this, including the one that you mentioned, but it goes beyond just attacking Bernie Sanders. Hillary Clinton also never can stop herself from attacking her opponent's supporters (A personal specialty of hers). I don't significantly differentiate Hillary from her mouthpieces because most of them are taking talking points from HRC's campaign or are close personal friends of the Clintons, and there there's no question about how she's used her gender to slur and slander Sanders and supporters as sexists, misogynists (and even in one instance do everything but call Sanders supporters white supremacists). I'll just list a few, but there's a litany of instances. The creation of the Bernie Bros mythology is a pretty noteworthy, there's other made-up cases where Hillary talked over Bernie and it was apparently sexist to ask her to stop talking over him, and the list goes on. As for cases she pretty shamelessly used "the gender card" to get herself out of a tense situation was when she said she wasn't establishment because she's a woman. Then we have the Madaleine Albright quote about there being a "special place in hell" for female Bernie supporters.

My honest opinion is that this will backfire precisely because she's about to go up against someone who really is a sexist and who's supporters really are sexists, and Trump will point to the nonsense accusations that she gave against Sanders and Sanders supporters as examples of why no one should take her claims about sexism seriously and as clear examples of how she really has used the gender card to her advantage.
 
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MrT said:
Setting aside the fact that there are literally dozens of instances of Trump making misogynistic comments, I don't see how you can really defend a naked attack on Hillary that boils her accomplishments down to her "woman card" as not being sexist.
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Her lack of accomplishments speak for itself. She has the nerve to attack Bill's comfort women, and then speak out of the other side of her mouth about women's rights.
 
MrT said:
Last night, Trump intentionally made the decision to show that he will not adjust his style to fit the suggestions by Manafort, some made privately, that Trump would act more Presidential. His speech was very similar to every other speech (bragging about his accomplishments, demanding his opponents relinquish the fight, attacking his critics) and then he took questions from the media.

And at the very end of the night, Trump decided to really hammer home just how much Misogyny is a core philosophy to his entire being. When asked whether he considered Hillary to be qualified, he said that she was not in his opinion. And he went further by claiming that the only thing Hillary has going for her is the "woman card." In fact, according to Trump, "If Hillary Clinton were a man, I don't think she would get five percent of the vote."

This event led to a social media ruckus when Mary Pat Christie, Chris Christie's wife, stole the show by demonstrating her disdain behind his head while he made the comment.

First off, Trump, that's not how sexism works. Secondly, there can be ZERO rational debate about whether Hillary is qualified to be President. She is a two term senator, four years as Secretary of State, and has spent eight years in the white house as first lady and before her political career, she was partner at a very prestigious law firm and the national chairwoman of the Children's defense fund. She has served on the boards of multiple corporations, like Walmart, and she served a formal role in attempting her husband to roll out education reform in Arkansas. One could very easily make the argument that Hillary Clinton is One of the Most Qualified Presidential Candidates in History.

Now, we can bicker about whether these qualifications are a good thing - although there is historical evidence to support the notion that inexperience can hurt, like Bill Clinton's awful transition or George W. Bush's deference to white house staff that pushed him around. And we can also bicker about whether Hillary was successful or failed during those periods of her life.

But to boil Hillary Clinton's accomplishments down to the fact that she is woman just goes to further prove the level of sexism that is ingrained into Trump. And while it is true to note that Hillary's favorability among women is only 43%, Trump has a crushingly unfavorable rating among women of 66% with a majority (52%) rating him as very unfavorable.
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Killary Rotten Clinton made the fact she is a women, and we have not had a women president and it is time BS , so women should vote for her corrupt butt !
 
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