Romney did better than Trump in the Primaries

As the race gets tightened and I look back at 2012. I can't help but keep remembering what I was thinking back then. In 2012 I was thinking at this point. Santorum has no chance. After he lost Wisconsin, he had even less of a chance and shortly dropped out afterwards. The opposite seems to be happening now. Trump does not have as much support as Romney did in the party! This despite the rantings of Trump supporters that have no facts to back up their claims. Yeah crowd size isn't everything. Just ask Ron Paul. Romney still has support in corners of the party while Trump will likely be a cold sore or the death of the Republican Party. He is only a populist figure running on his image and does not have the political network Ted Cruz has. That's why there is movement to coalesce around Cruz.

Just take a look at the Wisconsin polls from 2012. RealClearPolitics - Election 2012 - Wisconsin Republican Presidential Primary

Just take a look at Romney Delegate count at this point in the race in 2012: Even ROMNEY had more delegates than TRUMP at this point in 2012!! » The Right Scoop -

Just take a look at the California polls: RealClearPolitics - Election 2012 - California Republican Presidential Primary

All show Romney doing better and in some cases way better than Trump at this point in the race. So Trump should be doing WAY WAY better than Romney because he is such a great and wonderful person right? I thought Romney was a loser candidate? Then why is Trump doing worse?

Romney was above and beyond a consensus candidate in comparison with Trump. Not just in terms of ideology, but it terms of reactions to his primary victories. No one cared after March what happened to Romney's foes. That is nowhere near the case with Trump. Furthermore, Romney never truly faced the prospect of an actual open convention. Trump overwhelmingly does.

Much of Romney's success was due to his magic underwear. :mrgreen:

ModerateGOP said:

As the race gets tightened and I look back at 2012. I can't help but keep remembering what I was thinking back then. In 2012 I was thinking at this point. Santorum has no chance. After he lost Wisconsin, he had even less of a chance and shortly dropped out afterwards. The opposite seems to be happening now. Trump does not have as much support as Romney did in the party! This despite the rantings of Trump supporters that have no facts to back up their claims. Yeah crowd size isn't everything. Just ask Ron Paul. Romney still has support in corners of the party while Trump will likely be a cold sore or the death of the Republican Party. He is only a populist figure running on his image and does not have the political network Ted Cruz has. That's why there is movement to coalesce around Cruz.

Just take a look at the Wisconsin polls from 2012. RealClearPolitics - Election 2012 - Wisconsin Republican Presidential Primary

Just take a look at Romney Delegate count at this point in the race in 2012: Even ROMNEY had more delegates than TRUMP at this point in 2012!! » The Right Scoop -

Just take a look at the California polls: RealClearPolitics - Election 2012 - California Republican Presidential Primary

All show Romney doing better and in some cases way better than Trump at this point in the race. So Trump should be doing WAY WAY better than Romney because he is such a great and wonderful person right? I thought Romney was a loser candidate? Then why is Trump doing worse?

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Romney was not facing attacks from both his own Party's Machine and his opponents. He was a vetted candidate and political insider. If the GOP leadership had gotten behind Trump like they did Romney, he would be doing "WAY WAY better."

Captain Adverse said:

Romney was not facing attacks from both his own Party's Machine and his opponents. He was a vetted candidate and political insider. If the GOP leadership had gotten behind Trump like they did Romney, he would be doing "WAY WAY better."

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If Trump gave them the opportunity or reason to entice the GOP leadership into supporting him by not engaging in the behavior referenced in my signature line, then he would be doing WAY WAY better.

Edit: On second thought, I take that back. Without the behavior referenced in my signature line, he would not have managed to coalesce the support that he has out an extremely crowded republican field.

MrT said:

If Trump gave them the opportunity or reason to entice the GOP leadership into supporting him by not engaging in the behavior referenced in my signature line, then he would be doing WAY WAY better.

Edit: On second thought, I take that back. Without the behavior referenced in my signature line, he would not have managed to coalesce the support that he has out an extremely crowded republican field.

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You're absolutely wrong. Trump's policies are not out of the mainstream of the GOP. He's just not beholden to the moneyed power brokers so when he says he's going to enforce immigration laws he's actually going to do it. When he says he's going to do something about our bad trade deals he means it. The GOP establishment is fine with people who are nothing but all talk. Remember how the GOP started adopting Ron Paul's talking points re: audit the fed? With a GOP house and a GOP Senate that never happened. The establishment is all talk.

Romney was a darling for the moneyed interests, the people held their noses and voted for him. Trump, folks that vote for him have their heads held up high. That makes Trump a winner and Romney a loser.

reinoe said:

You're absolutely wrong. Trump's policies are not out of the mainstream of the GOP. He's just not beholden to the moneyed power brokers so when he says he's going to enforce immigration laws he's actually going to do it. When he says he's going to do something about our bad trade deals he means it. The GOP establishment is fine with people who are nothing but all talk. Remember how the GOP started adopting Ron Paul's talking points re: audit the fed? With a GOP house and a GOP Senate that never happened. The establishment is all talk.

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You are shifting my statements. The behaviors and statements from Trump that I have referenced in my signature line are not his policies. I have distinct issues with his policies and many of his policies are ABSOLUTELY contradictory to the Republican mainstream. And that is why he is being rejected by so many Republicans.

As for not being beholden to the money barons, who the **** are they and why should I care about them? I care about what Trump has said and done. I care about the fact that Trump is looking out for his own interests. Not my interests or the interests of MASSIVE BLOCKS of constituencies. You know...the people he is supposed to represent once he becomes the President of the United States?

Including the women that he has implied will only ask tough questions because they are on their period.

Including the hispanics that he has stated are drug dealers and rapists.

Including the African Americans whom he severely offended when he refused to disavow the KKK during a live interview.

reinoe said:

You're absolutely wrong. Trump's policies are not out of the mainstream of the GOP. He's just not beholden to the moneyed power brokers so when he says he's going to enforce immigration laws he's actually going to do it. When he says he's going to do something about our bad trade deals he means it. The GOP establishment is fine with people who are nothing but all talk. Remember how the GOP started adopting Ron Paul's talking points re: audit the fed? With a GOP house and a GOP Senate that never happened. The establishment is all talk.

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No only a few fiscal hawks talked about auditing the fed. No one else cared and no one else does now either. Not even Trump. Trump just said it like once, because it sounds good to those people who said it before. Trump's a phony.

Captain Adverse said:

Romney was not facing attacks from both his own Party's Machine and his opponents. He was a vetted candidate and political insider. If the GOP leadership had gotten behind Trump like they did Romney, he would be doing "WAY WAY better."

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*bolding mine

Absolutely right!

Mr. Trump would be walking away with the nomination in that case!

Fiddytree said:

Romney was above and beyond a consensus candidate in comparison with Trump. Not just in terms of ideology, but it terms of reactions to his primary victories. No one cared after March what happened to Romney's foes. That is nowhere near the case with Trump. Furthermore, Romney never truly faced the prospect of an actual open convention. Trump overwhelmingly does.

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Quite true. Romney's closest competition was Santorum, Paul and Gingrich, none of which had any real support within the party, and Paul was effectively neutered well before this point in the campaign season.

clownboy said:

Romney was a darling for the moneyed interests, the people held their noses and voted for him. Trump, folks that vote for him have their heads held up high. That makes Trump a winner and Romney a loser.

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No, Trump losing the general election is going to make Trump a loser.

MrT said:

You are shifting my statements. The behaviors and statements from Trump that I have referenced in my signature line are not his policies. I have distinct issues with his policies and many of his policies are ABSOLUTELY contradictory to the Republican mainstream. And that is why he is being rejected by so many Republicans.

As for not being beholden to the money barons, who the **** are they and why should I care about them? I care about what Trump has said and done. I care about the fact that Trump is looking out for his own interests. Not my interests or the interests of MASSIVE BLOCKS of constituencies. You know...the people he is supposed to represent once he becomes the President of the United States?

Including the women that he has implied will only ask tough questions because they are on their period.

Including the hispanics that he has stated are drug dealers and rapists.

Including the African Americans whom he severely offended when he refused to disavow the KKK during a live interview.

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How is Trump looking out for his own interests?

Megyn Kelly along with the other Fox News Panelists were engaging in a hit job during that first debate.

He said "when Mexico sends their people, they're not sending their best". That's true.

Louis Farrakhan endorses Donald Trump.
Black Man Harrassed for selling Donald Trump shirts.
Black Man verbally attacked for supporting Donald Trump.
Black Cop attends Trump rally and speaks about hateful language from protesters.

Civil Rights Activist Endorses Donald Trump

Oh noes, it's MrT thinks he speaks for all Black people and says that Trump should have disavowed the KKK in a specific and particular manner! There are few things more embarrassing to witness than to watch someone claim to be offended on behalf of someone else.

ModerateGOP said:

As the race gets tightened and I look back at 2012. I can't help but keep remembering what I was thinking back then. In 2012 I was thinking at this point. Santorum has no chance. After he lost Wisconsin, he had even less of a chance and shortly dropped out afterwards. The opposite seems to be happening now. Trump does not have as much support as Romney did in the party! This despite the rantings of Trump supporters that have no facts to back up their claims. Yeah crowd size isn't everything. Just ask Ron Paul. Romney still has support in corners of the party while Trump will likely be a cold sore or the death of the Republican Party. He is only a populist figure running on his image and does not have the political network Ted Cruz has. That's why there is movement to coalesce around Cruz.

Just take a look at the Wisconsin polls from 2012. RealClearPolitics - Election 2012 - Wisconsin Republican Presidential Primary

Just take a look at Romney Delegate count at this point in the race in 2012: Even ROMNEY had more delegates than TRUMP at this point in 2012!! » The Right Scoop -

Just take a look at the California polls: RealClearPolitics - Election 2012 - California Republican Presidential Primary

All show Romney doing better and in some cases way better than Trump at this point in the race. So Trump should be doing WAY WAY better than Romney because he is such a great and wonderful person right? I thought Romney was a loser candidate? Then why is Trump doing worse?

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I certainly hopr that Romney did better than Trump does, unless he stands against BS. Then I am not sure what to want.

ModerateGOP said:

All show Romney doing better and in some cases way better than Trump at this point in the race. So Trump should be doing WAY WAY better than Romney because he is such a great and wonderful person right? I thought Romney was a loser candidate? Then why is Trump doing worse?

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Rough comparison.

As others have mentioned the flaw in comparing Romney and Trump is where Establishment Republican support fell. Romney had it, Trump does not. So in terms of establishment support we get to include in the conversation all that comes with it. Romney had the backing of various pocket of wealth that Trump is purposefully not wanting, Romney got along fairly well with right leaning media and some of their commentary where Trump is combative with them all. The arguably right leaning population that supported Romney is not the same demographic that is supporting Trump. Takes us right to that point of the anti-establishment group that Trump has the support of. We were not having the anti-establishment conversation in 2012, at the time all the focus was on Obama and Democrats.

But what others have not mentioned is the social and economic pulse of the nation has continued to deteriorate the Republican Party.

Romney was a loser, but not for just the reasons that the 2016 field of hopefuls faces. By 2012 we already were dealing with the effects of the nation moving away from center right. Minorities as a block were solidly behind Democrats. This was made worse by the GOP's position at the time for matters like "self-deport" for illegals, tight restrictions on voting, and the infamous "47% comment" ended up alienating independents and others who might have voted for someone center right.

Now that we are at 2016 the Republican Party is in real disarray. The front runner Trump (even though a bit behind Romney at the same point in the campaign) has no real establishment support and is often adversarial to what you would think political party power would want. Of course, Trump is still talking about immigration (and a "huuuuge beautiful wall") but what Trump is not talking about is a tax plan like the typical Republican candidate. According to Trump, he is paying for his tax plan by "reducing or eliminating most deductions and loopholes available to the very rich." That does not even sound Republican. "If you are single and earn less than $25,000, or married and jointly earn less than $50,000, you will not owe any income tax" does not sound very Republican either. For every item that Trump sounds Republican on there is something else that clearly is not.

Why is Trump doing worse? Because he is not running like a Republican, he is trying to appeal to those that are angry with establishment politics and finding moderate success doing so. If he loses to a brokered convention he will take a sizable portion of those votes with him right to an Independent ticket run. That sound like it is comparable to Romney?

Kobie said:

No, Trump losing the general election is going to make Trump a loser.

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That is a very real possibility no matter if he ends up representing the GOP ticket or some other ticket. I do not see a plausible path for Trump to pivot enough to capture the needed Independents.

OrphanSlug said:

That is a very real possibility no matter if he ends up representing the GOP ticket or some other ticket. I do not see a plausible path for Trump to pivot enough to capture the needed Independents.

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He's pissing off too many demographics the GOP needs to win the WH.

reinoe said:

How is Trump looking out for his own interests?

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How about the fact that his tax plan would send approximately 30% of the tax breaks to the one percent (hint: he is in the one percent).

reinoe said:

Megyn Kelly along with the other Fox News Panelists were engaging in a hit job during that first debate.

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Who the **** cares if it was a "hit" show? The man is running for President and thinks he can handle foreign diplomats, but is so scarred from a "hit job" by Fox News journalists (towards a supposed Republican by the way) that he would directly imply that she was on her period and that would explain why she asked such tough questions.

reinoe said:

He said "when Mexico sends their people, they're not sending their best". That's true.

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Oh wow - well no ****. When you make such a vague and undefinable statement, you do get the "truth." FFS, how are you defining their "best?" You also get seriously offensive lines like the very next phrase from your citation where he said, "They are sending murderers. They are sending drug dealers. Some of them, I am sure, are good people." Oh well geeze Mr. Trump, so long as what you said is remotely "true," then I guess it is OK. But here's the thing, you support him even when he says blatently inaccurate statements. And then repeats them despite being shown that he is wrong.

reinoe said:

Several links detailing a grand total of four black people supporting Trump.
Oh noes, it's MrT thinks he speaks for all Black people and says that Trump should have disavowed the KKK in a specific and particular manner! There are few things more embarrassing to witness than to watch someone claim to be offended on behalf of someone else.

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I don't speak for all Black people. I am speaking for myself and I am echoing some black people that were offended by his comment - see Van Jones Destroying Jeffrey Lord over those comments - or his failure to "disavow the KKK in a specific and particular manner" as you would like it phrased. Hell, the man spent the next day blaming it on an ear piece malfunction that somehow, magically, only stopped working for a grand total of 10 seconds during an hour long interview.

Romney had class and brains. Trump has neither. I proudly voted for Romney. I would never lower myself to vote for Trump. I know I'm not alone. That's why Romney did better than Trump in the primaries.

clownboy said:

Romney was a darling for the moneyed interests, the people held their noses and voted for him. Trump, folks that vote for him have their heads held up high. That makes Trump a winner and Romney a loser.

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Romney showed his true colors and loyalty with his jumping on the bandwagon to be named later attack on Trump's taxes.

What little respect I had for Romney disappeared that day.

Cruz jumped on that bandwagon a day later. I had no respect for him prior that day, so never lost any.

The huge difference in this campaign and prior ones is that this is the first one in my memory where a party was attacking their own front runner. It's surprising he has a lead at all.

MrT said:

If Trump gave them the opportunity or reason to entice the GOP leadership into supporting him by not engaging in the behavior referenced in my signature line, then he would be doing WAY WAY better.

Edit: On second thought, I take that back. Without the behavior referenced in my signature line, he would not have managed to coalesce the support that he has out an extremely crowded republican field.

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No they wouldn't. The nomination was a done deal. It was Bush. Then Rubio, now Cruz. The establishment would never have considered Trump anything but a minor thorn in their butts.

MrT said:

How about the fact that his tax plan would send approximately 30% of the tax breaks to the one percent (hint: he is in the one percent).



Who the **** cares if it was a "hit" show? The man is running for President and thinks he can handle foreign diplomats, but is so scarred from a "hit job" by Fox News journalists (towards a supposed Republican by the way) that he would directly imply that she was on her period and that would explain why she asked such tough questions.



Oh wow - well no ****. When you make such a vague and undefinable statement, you do get the "truth." FFS, how are you defining their "best?" You also get seriously offensive lines like the very next phrase from your citation where he said, "They are sending murderers. They are sending drug dealers. Some of them, I am sure, are good people." Oh well geeze Mr. Trump, so long as what you said is remotely "true," then I guess it is OK. But here's the thing, you support him even when he says blatently inaccurate statements. And then repeats them despite being shown that he is wrong.



I don't speak for all Black people. I am speaking for myself and I am echoing some black people that were offended by his comment - see Van Jones Destroying Jeffrey Lord over those comments - or his failure to "disavow the KKK in a specific and particular manner" as you would like it phrased. Hell, the man spent the next day blaming it on an ear piece malfunction that somehow, magically, only stopped working for a grand total of 10 seconds during an hour long interview.

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1. That's every politician in both parties except Bernie Sanders. Why is Trump being single out? Of all the GOP candidates at least his plan is the best.

2. It's a valid criticism when a "fair and balanced" debate is a hit job. And since a plurality of people say he won that debate he obviously had a point.

3. So you've retracted your statement completely and are trying to move the goalpost.

4. Van Jones is an ex-communist who was too radical to serve in the Obama administration and he's a professional victim. Your echoing of "some Black people" is an obvious farce. Face it, you're trying to be a Social Justice Warrior and are throwing everything plus the kitchen sink in an effort to portray Trump as a racist.

tres borrachos said:

Romney had class and brains. Trump has neither. I proudly voted for Romney. I would never lower myself to vote for Trump. I know I'm not alone. That's why Romney did better than Trump in the primaries.

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Like Hillary, Romney makes comments like about people behind closed doors that he doesn't say to the public. He's an utter coward. I think it's surprising that you embrace a man who literally bullied people: remember him and a group of thugs held down a person and cut their hair. Romney made that infamous "47% of all Americans pay no taxes" comment. He's absolutely classless and his brains you speak of are only focused on enriching himself.

reinoe said:

Like Hillary, Romney makes comments like about people behind closed doors that he doesn't say to the public. He's an utter coward. I think it's surprising that you embrace a man who literally bullied people: remember him and a group of thugs held down a person and cut their hair. Romney made that infamous "47% of all Americans pay no taxes" comment. He's absolutely classless and his brains you speak of are only focused on enriching himself.

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Yeah, because something that happened in 1965 when he was a teenager is just so important. Please keep on supporting Trump. He's such a swell guy.

reinoe said:

1. That's every politician in both parties except Bernie Sanders. Why is Trump being single out? Of all the GOP candidates at least his plan is the best.

2. It's a valid criticism when a "fair and balanced" debate is a hit job. And since a plurality of people say he won that debate he obviously had a point.

3. So you've retracted your statement completely and are trying to move the goalpost.

4. Van Jones is an ex-communist who was too radical to serve in the Obama administration and he's a professional victim. Your echoing of "some Black people" is an obvious farce. Face it, you're trying to be a Social Justice Warrior and are throwing everything plus the kitchen sink in an effort to portray Trump as a racist.

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1. 30% of the taxes goes to the 1% in every tax plan being offered? Oh, you mean that they belong to the 1%. As for his plan is the best? Absurd claim when it will add an additional 10 trillion to the national debt...even assuming the alleged increase productivity that almost never seems to accurately reflect the predictions.

2. Again, I don't care if it was a hit job. I don't care if it was a "valid criticism" that their debate was lop-sided (on a side note, there is a reason that you can claim every debate so far has been biased against Trump and it isn't because they hate Trump, it is because Trump makes it extremely easy to be hated and criticized). I care about the potential candidate's response. And his response was the utter height of embarrassment for himself and for his supporters. Also, a plurality of Republicans are supporting Trump, so I don't necessarily trust their opinion of whether or not he won that debate.

3. Did I really retract my statement? Or did you just read an extreme interpretation of my statement...both statements in fact. And then made the assumption that the later was a retraction?

4. I don't have to throw the kitchen sink at anything. I can simply repeat a few keys facts. Over. And. Over. And I don't need to convince you (I have a sneaking suspicion that you would support him even if he committed murder in the streets). Hell, I don't need to convince the vast majority of minorities. They are already convinced.