Republicans Must Apologize for Kansas and Louisiana

Eric7216 · Mar 18, 2016

I am going to discount much of this. I don't understand the fascination of liberals with Kansas. In 2004 Thomas Frank published What's the Matter with Kansas, bemoaning the politics of Kansas. Sibelius (D) was governor at the time. Kansas ranks very high in average income, low cost of living, and income equality, among the top in the country yet they get criticized. I suppose that it is easy to come up with damning stuff.
Louisiana tends to switch back and forth from Democratic to Republican governors. Seems to be a rather bipartisan state.

sangha · Mar 18, 2016

gdgyva said:
if you think that over 20% unemployment is a GOOD number

They went up under a republican and went down under a dem

Damn fine job repubs did there

Absentglare · Mar 18, 2016

sangha said:
They went up under a republican and went down under a dem

Damn fine job repubs did there

Look at national unemployment by president, the trend continues :

It's like a cyclical pattern- republicans undermine society to a breaking point, the balance of power shifts to democrats, democrats clean stuff up so well that the people become complacent and the balance shifts back to the incompetents.

Absentglare · Mar 18, 2016

cpwill said:
Then you should check out the 1930s, or perhaps the 1970s.

However, simply saying "oh, well, that's not Americans, so it doesn't count" isn't really an excuse. The socialist model consistently underperforms where it doesn't fail. That's a reality. The free market model consistently succeeds, sometimes wildly. That's also a reality.

If you want a good side-by-side comparison, you might try something like California v Texas.

ocean515 said:
My guess is Republicans will probably demand liberal/socialist Progressives will need to apologize for California, and perhaps a couple other states, first.

VanceMack said:
Of course. Hey...we can all be honest here. There isnt a dimes difference between the two parties and both have ****ed things up horribly. But when you are sitting in a heaping mound of ****, talking to other people about their **** may not be the wisest tactic. Unless of course your goal was to make yourself look silly, in which case...well played, sir.

VanceMack said:
No...in fact the left is going to run a candidate that thinks taking us to an economic socialist paradisiacal state like Venezuela WOULD BE JUST SWELL.

This is embarrassing for all of you.

Explain Kansas and Louisiana.

Republican positions would predict success from these policies, yet we can clearly see abject failure.

If you want to discuss Venezuela or California, maybe you should make your own thread.

MrT · Mar 18, 2016

gdgyva said:
because for every failure of one of our governors...of which there are a few, we can show you numerous failures on YOUR side of the ledger

only when we bring it up, it somehow is different

or there is a valid excuse

or they havent gotten the support they need

or a thousand other bull**** answers

there are failures on both sides of the aisle

dont start an OP just trying to throw one side off a cliff

And here is a critical difference on your side...

You don't even bother to try and explain what happened with Louisiana or Kansas. You just instantly jump into the, "Well it can happen to your side too!"

FFS - My post is about Kansas, Louisiana, and the GOP. And not a single conservative has bothered to address those failures.

Moot · Mar 18, 2016

Erod said:
Look at Venezuela, which is having to shut its electricity grids down for hours because the state can't afford it anymore.

This is Bernie Sanders' paradise on full display.

If you have to make a comparison then Bolivia and Morales is probably more accurate.

Look at Bolivia....holy cow...

Bolivia: The Economy During the Morales Administration | Reports | Publications | The Center for Economic and Policy Research

Its economy grew an estimated 6.5 percent last year, among the strongest rates in the region. Inflation has been kept in check. The budget is balanced, and once-crippling government debt has been slashed. And the country has a rainy-day fund of foreign reserves so large — for the size of its economy — that it could be the envy of nearly every other country in the world...."

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/17/w...a-as-economy-rises-from-instability.html?_r=0

Juan Evo Morales Ayma (born October 26, 1959), popularly known as Evo (Spanish pronunciation: [ˈeβo]), is a Bolivian politician and cocalero activist who has served as President of Bolivia since 2006. Widely regarded as the country's first president to come from the indigenous population,[a] his administration has focused on the implementation of leftist policies, poverty reduction, and combating the influence of the United States and multinational corporations in Bolivia. A democratic socialist, he is the head of the Movement for Socialism (MAS) party.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Morales

Vern · Mar 18, 2016

WCH said:
Wait...I thought you folks said debt doesn't matter?

I really cant believe this is still a conservative narrative. Cheney said "deficits don't matter". google it. We mocked conservatives sudden concern for deficits that started 1/20/2009. When conservatives obediently started ranting about deficits in their divisive attacks on the stimulus, we simply pointed out that deficits were not the priority. The economy cratering at -8.2% and losing 700,000 jobs a month was the priority. And get this, we were right. Now you could claim republicans and the conservative media were simply wrong but I think the consistent string of hyperbolic claims that were false proves they knew it was a lie. And not only did they not explain how they were so wrong, you and yours didn't demand an explanation.

VanceMack · Mar 18, 2016

Absentglare said:
This is embarrassing for all of you.

Explain Kansas and Louisiana.

Republican positions would predict success from these policies, yet we can clearly see abject failure.

If you want to discuss Venezuela or California, maybe you should make your own thread.

Whats embarrassing is seeing people covered head to toe in **** demanding others explain their rabbit pellets.

Absentglare · Mar 18, 2016

VanceMack said:
Whats embarrassing is seeing people covered head to toe in **** demanding others explain their rabbit pellets.

You elected to participate in this thread solely to deflect from the topic.

Kansas did exactly what conservatives claimed would produce some massive economic boom, and in its place a governmental implosion has occurred.

Please, please explain how you can reconcile the empirical failure with the persistence of the ideology. And, AGAIN, questioning liberal policy is NOT a substitute for failing to question conservative policy.

JANFU · Mar 18, 2016

MrT said:
I am not usually a fan of "Can you imagine what would happen in X did Y, and Z would react." But, I want you to imagine this scenario with me. Suppose that instead of a Tea Party sweeping into power in 2010, we had a liberal wave. And now, let's imagine that Bernie Sanders became the governor of Vermont and a liberal house and senate enacted every liberal policy (free college education, single payer health-care system, raising minimum wages and raised taxes) that they could want.

And then, six years later, the state of Vermont was in utter ruin. Unemployment skyrocketed, the State turned a massive surplus into a massive debt, schools shut down, and pensions were cut. If that happened, would you want the Democratic candidates to answer questions about the failure of their model blue state failure? Would you be pissed if the media did not ask those questions? What if I told you that the Democratic candidates are proposing national tax plans that are predicated on the same failed models?

And yet, that is the exact scenario that we are seeing in the Republican Primary. Kansas and Louisiana now face a whole host of issues that are a direct result of the ultra-conservative economic policies enacted by their respective republican governors. And yet, the Republican candidates are proposing tax policies that relies on the type of "dynamic scoring" that consistently underestimated the cost of tax cuts in Kansas.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/03/gop-must-answer-for-what-it-did-to-kansas.html

And Wisconsin as well??

VanceMack · Mar 18, 2016

Absentglare said:
You elected to participate in this thread solely to deflect from the topic.

Kansas did exactly what conservatives claimed would produce some massive economic boom, and in its place a governmental implosion has occurred.

Please, please explain how you can reconcile the empirical failure with the persistence of the ideology. And, AGAIN, questioning liberal policy is NOT a substitute for failing to question conservative policy.

I elected to participate in this thread to point out that its beyond hypocritical for RATS to ignore the damage and devastation that RATS have done in every major city in this country to suddenly pretend to give a **** about a GOP administration in Kansas and Louisiana. I very much responded to the intent of the OP.

Absentglare · Mar 18, 2016

VanceMack said:
I elected to participate in this thread to point out that its beyond hypocritical for RATS to ignore the damage and devastation that RATS have done in every major city in this country to suddenly pretend to give a **** about a GOP administration in Kansas and Louisiana. I very much responded to the intent of the OP.

If the argument is that conservatives are fiscally responsible, the empirical evidence points in the exact opposite direction.

You seem to be incapable of addressing this concern, which leads me to the inexorable conclusion that there is no basis in reality that can justify such hardline conservative policy.

VanceMack · Mar 18, 2016

Absentglare said:
If the argument is that conservatives are fiscally responsible, the empirical evidence points in the exact opposite direction.

You seem to be incapable of addressing this concern, which leads me to the inexorable conclusion that there is no basis in reality that can justify such hardline conservative policy.

Kansas rates 13th in unemployment rates, leading those democrat strongholds you so desperately want to ignore. "The growth of small businesses in Kansas is at an annual rate of 6 percent – higher than the national average and higher than the growth in any neighboring states, including Missouri. In the 2013 tax year, more than 8,600 first-time small-business filers invigorated the state’s economy with more than $486 million in new income."

"private-sector GDP has increased in Kansas. The Tax Foundation shows Kansas outperforming the 50-state average in 2013 (the numbers for 2014 aren’t yet available), as well as far outperforming the ten states with the highest state and local tax burden. In the fourteen years prior to tax reform, Kansas lagged behind."
"Kansas nonfarm jobs grew by 2.4 percent between December 2012 and January 2015. In Missouri during the same timeframe, nonfarm jobs increased by 1.9 percent. This more stable, accurate comparison of average annual employment reveals Kansas to be growing faster than Missouri – whether you use nonfarm or private-sector employment figures."
Forbes Welcome
Mind you...thats from Forbes...and not a slimy rag that predicates its entire premise on fantasy and bizzaro worlds.

Now...about that mountain of **** you are standing in...

Absentglare · Mar 18, 2016

VanceMack said:
Kansas rates 13th in unemployment rates, leading those democrat strongholds you so desperately want to ignore. "The growth of small businesses in Kansas is at an annual rate of 6 percent – higher than the national average and higher than the growth in any neighboring states, including Missouri. In the 2013 tax year, more than 8,600 first-time small-business filers invigorated the state’s economy with more than $486 million in new income."

"private-sector GDP has increased in Kansas. The Tax Foundation shows Kansas outperforming the 50-state average in 2013 (the numbers for 2014 aren’t yet available), as well as far outperforming the ten states with the highest state and local tax burden. In the fourteen years prior to tax reform, Kansas lagged behind."
"Kansas nonfarm jobs grew by 2.4 percent between December 2012 and January 2015. In Missouri during the same timeframe, nonfarm jobs increased by 1.9 percent. This more stable, accurate comparison of average annual employment reveals Kansas to be growing faster than Missouri – whether you use nonfarm or private-sector employment figures."
Forbes Welcome
Mind you...thats from Forbes...and not a slimy rag that predicates its entire premise on fantasy and bizzaro worlds.

Now...about that mountain of **** you are standing in...

This argument is the equivalent of drawing a hockey stick and claiming the tax cuts helped.

Sorry to tell you, it's complete bull****. All states made gains since the great recession.

ludin · Mar 18, 2016

MrT said:
I am not usually a fan of "Can you imagine what would happen in X did Y, and Z would react." But, I want you to imagine this scenario with me. Suppose that instead of a Tea Party sweeping into power in 2010, we had a liberal wave. And now, let's imagine that Bernie Sanders became the governor of Vermont and a liberal house and senate enacted every liberal policy (free college education, single payer health-care system, raising minimum wages and raised taxes) that they could want.

And then, six years later, the state of Vermont was in utter ruin. Unemployment skyrocketed, the State turned a massive surplus into a massive debt, schools shut down, and pensions were cut. If that happened, would you want the Democratic candidates to answer questions about the failure of their model blue state failure? Would you be pissed if the media did not ask those questions? What if I told you that the Democratic candidates are proposing national tax plans that are predicated on the same failed models?

And yet, that is the exact scenario that we are seeing in the Republican Primary. Kansas and Louisiana now face a whole host of issues that are a direct result of the ultra-conservative economic policies enacted by their respective republican governors. And yet, the Republican candidates are proposing tax policies that relies on the type of "dynamic scoring" that consistently underestimated the cost of tax cuts in Kansas.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/03/gop-must-answer-for-what-it-did-to-kansas.html

as soon as liberal apologize for
CA, NY, IL and 8 years of Obama.

let me know when that happens.

FieldTheorist · Mar 18, 2016

Absentglare said:
Look at national unemployment by president, the trend continues :

It's like a cyclical pattern- republicans undermine society to a breaking point, the balance of power shifts to democrats, democrats clean stuff up so well that the people become complacent and the balance shifts back to the incompetents.

I don't think it's quite that simple (for instance, a lot of what drove unemployment at the end of Bush's reign was directly tied to economic policy decisions by Clinton, Bush I, and Reagan, but made worse under Bush), but yes, that graph is quite striking.

ludin · Mar 18, 2016

Absentglare said:
This argument is the equivalent of drawing a hockey stick and claiming the tax cuts helped.

Sorry to tell you, it's complete bull****. All states made gains since the great recession.

so you post a graff from a liberal thinktank CBPP. nope not bias at all.

you show another graph that shows Kanas pretty much in line.
then your last graph actually shows their economy doing better.

hmmm if you were trying to prove him wrong or what he said wrong your failed
and instead supported his argument.

Absentglare · Mar 18, 2016

FieldTheorist said:
I don't think it's quite that simple (for instance, a lot of what drove unemployment at the end of Bush's reign was directly tied to economic policy decisions by Clinton, Bush I, and Reagan, but made worse under Bush), but yes, that graph is quite striking.

Oh, it's certainly not that simple.

However, one party claims to represent "fiscal responsibility" and then enacts policies that result in this :

ludin · Mar 18, 2016

Absentglare said:
Oh, it's certainly not that simple.

However, one party claims to represent "fiscal responsibility" and then enacts policies that result in this :

yea I know the absolute mess that carter and then Clinton left Reagan and bush was abysmal.

Glen Contrarian · Mar 18, 2016

ludin said:
as soon as liberal apologize for
CA, NY, IL and 8 years of Obama.

let me know when that happens.

Yeah, I guess we should be so deeply sorry for Obama, since he only took us from the depths of the Great Recession, wherein we were losing 800K jobs every month, not to mention being stuck in two wars...to today, when we're still in the middle of the LONGEST streak of private-sector job growth in our nation's entire history, and unemployment is now below 5%. Yes, a lot of those jobs are low-wage jobs...but that has as much to do with the explosion of workplace automation as anything else. Oh, and let's not forget that today, 20M MORE Americans have health care coverage, thanks to the Obamacare that y'all were so sure was going to destroy America.

And you're saying we should apologize for CA? You mean we should apologize for CA going from billions in deficits under the GOP to budget surpluses under Gov. Brown? And the homicide rate in NYC is about half that of the state of Louisiana. And Illinois? Can't win 'em all...but when one looks at the numbers, especially given the crap sandwich Obama was handed on his first day in office (and the worst level of obstruction by the opposition party since the Civil War)...he's been one of the five best presidents we've ever had.

gdgyva · Mar 18, 2016

sangha said:
They went up under a republican and went down under a dem

Damn fine job repubs did there

Seven years and that is your response?

Where is the accountability?

Vern · Mar 18, 2016

FieldTheorist said:
I don't think it's quite that simple (for instance, a lot of what drove unemployment at the end of Bush's reign was directly tied to economic policy decisions by Clinton, Bush I, and Reagan, but made worse under Bush), but yes, that graph is quite striking.

it really was bush's fault. Not only did he preempt all state laws against predatory lending but the regulators work for bush. Banks just weren't allowed to do what they did until Bush's regulators let them. Bush's working group says it started late 2004.

“The Presidents Working Group’s March policy statement acknowledged that turmoil in financial markets clearly was triggered by a dramatic weakening of underwriting standards for U.S. subprime mortgages, beginning in late 2004 and extending into 2007.”
http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/fin-mkts/Documents/q4progress update.pdf

VanceMack · Mar 18, 2016

Absentglare said:
This argument is the equivalent of drawing a hockey stick and claiming the tax cuts helped.

Sorry to tell you, it's complete bull****. All states made gains since the great recession.

So...by your own admission, while the growth may (MAY) not be AS STRONG as the US, it is in all of those categories growing. Correct?

ASSUMING that is all correct...doesnt that make this an issue for the voters of Kansas? Why are you running around covered in your own **** demanding Kansas, Sam Brownback, and the GOP at large issue an apology?

You DO realize how you look...right? I mean...that visual...its pretty telling...right?

Absentglare · Mar 18, 2016

ludin said:
so you post a graff from a liberal thinktank CBPP. nope not bias at all.

you show another graph that shows Kanas pretty much in line.
then your last graph actually shows their economy doing better.

hmmm if you were trying to prove him wrong or what he said wrong your failed
and instead supported his argument.

No, job and GDP growth should be higher if the tax cuts helped in any meaningful way.

ludin said:
yea I know the absolute mess that carter and then Clinton left Reagan and bush was abysmal.

Lol, if you blame President Carter for the bulk of the economic situation in the early 80s, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Absentglare · Mar 18, 2016

VanceMack said:
So...by your own admission, while the growth may (MAY) not be AS STRONG as the US, it is in all of those categories growing. Correct?

ASSUMING that is all correct...doesnt that make this an issue for the voters of Kansas? Why are you running around covered in your own **** demanding Kansas, Sam Brownback, and the GOP at large issue an apology?

You DO realize how you look...right? I mean...that visual...its pretty telling...right?

Baahahaha wow !!!!!!!

The economy didn't completely collapse (like the state government), therefore it wasn't failed policy !!!!

Republicans Must Apologize for Kansas and Louisiana

Eric7216

sangha

Absentglare

Absentglare

MrT

Moot

Vern

back from Vegas

VanceMack

Less like the tiger...more like the lion.

Absentglare

JANFU

Land by the Gulf Stream

VanceMack

Less like the tiger...more like the lion.

Absentglare

VanceMack

Less like the tiger...more like the lion.

Absentglare

ludin

FieldTheorist

ludin

Absentglare

ludin

Glen Contrarian

gdgyva

Vern

back from Vegas

VanceMack

Less like the tiger...more like the lion.

Absentglare

Absentglare