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43% in Iowa identify themselves as socialist !

actually, all being totalitarian made them exactly identical. Now you understand the basic principle of America. Our Founders did not care about the rationale of liberal totalitarians because they were all the same in the end, they were the source of evil
throughout human history.

I think its pointless arguing with you as frankly you come across as a hack, but any ideology carried to its extreme results in totalitarianism. For example Iran and Saudi Arabia are as far from liberalism as one could get, indeed they are the very definition of conservatism taken to the extreme.
 
For example Iran and Saudi Arabia are as far from liberalism as one could get,.

but why do you say that? Hitler Stalin and Mao and the rulers of Iran and Saudi Arabia were all identical to our Founders. They all would be illegal here thanks to our Founders regardless of their rationales for centralizing power in govt. America was founded to be about freedom from all powerful liberal central governments. Make sense now?
 
indeed they are the very definition of conservatism taken to the extreme.

conservatism taken to its extreme is libertarianism. You've got your definitions all confused. Sorry.
 
but why do you say that? Hitler Stalin and Mao and the rulers of Iran and Saudi Arabia were all identical to our Founders. They all would be illegal here thanks to our Founders regardless of their rationales for centralizing power in govt. America was founded to be about freedom from all powerful liberal central governments. Make sense now?

No, it does not. Not a lick.
 
James972 said:
I think the point is that we ought to be concerned about the socialist anti-Americanism of Democrats. When 38% admit to being socialist real Americans have a real problem.

Whenever considering a problem, it seems to me the first order of business is in figuring out whether or not there is a problem. 38% of Democrats have not admitted to being socialists. 38% of Iowa caucus-goers admitted to being capitalists. Those are quite distinct claims. If you think it's just obvious that Democrats are all a bunch of pinko commies, then I would suggest you're just as fanatical as a pinko commie who thinks all American conservatives are wannabe Hitlers.

As far as I can tell, the Constitution defines who is and who isn't a "real" American. Do you think those Iowa caucus-goers were all born outside the U.S. to parents who were not citizens? Unless you've got some compelling reason to suspect the respondents to the poll were born anywhere other than Iowa (which a quick glance at a map will tell you is in the heartland of the United States), they're real Americans. There's nothing wrong with real Americans being socialists. It's just downright silly to suggest otherwise.

James972 said:
I don't think it matters who said but rather whether it makes sense.

It matters a great deal who said it. If it's become a cultural artifact that democrats are seeking to somehow infiltrate "real" American culture so as to subvert it, and this sort of misattribution was used to support such a view, it obviously matters who said it. If, on investigation, it turns out to have been a mere fabrication, then the inference ought to be that there's someone trying to convince everyone the democrats have some evil and nefarious plans. In other words, the quote may have only come to make sense because it was thought to have been said by a former socialist party leader.

James972 said:
Bernie Sanders is on the far left with liberals, communists, socialists, and Democrats all of whom have worked together over decades so that anti-American socialism is now main stream in America.

Just what is anti-American about socialism?
 
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Yikes! The question is why would anybody be a socialist when socialism slowly starved 120 million human souls to death.

The Cold War is over. As far as young people are concerned, the Cold War might as well have happened before they were born. Indeed, it did happen before anyone younger than 30 years old was born.

When young people think of socialism they don't think of the Soviet Union. They think of Scandinavia, the British Commonwealth, and Germany. Those countries responded better to the Great Recession than the United States. They have less poverty and crime than the United States.

That is probably why this is true, "Younger Americans have a much better view of socialism, and worse view of capitalism, than their elders."
https://today.yougov.com/news/2015/05/11/one-third-millennials-like-socialism/
 
no no please give us your best example of how adding a little socialism to capitalism can help rather than hurt. Thanks

When they were proposed the basic reforms of the New Deal and Medicare were denounced as "socialism." Those reforms are overwhelmingly popular with most Americans because they "help rather than hurt."
 
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America was founded to be about freedom from all powerful liberal central governments. Make sense now?

The United States was founded as an alternative to rule by hereditary monarchs and aristocracies.
 
I think the point is that we ought to be concerned about the socialist anti-Americanism of Democrats. When 38% admit to being socialist real Americans have a real problem.

What gives you the right to decide what is anti-American, and who are "real Americans?" Even before the Bernie Sanders' candidacy the percentage of Americans who told pollsters that they favored socialism was increasing.

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=poll+++socialism

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Stop the presses! According to a new poll by Quinnipiac University on [December 22, 2015], Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) destroys Republican candidate Donald Trump in a general election by 13 percentage points. In this new poll, Sanders has 51 percent to Trump's 38 percent. If this margin held in a general election, Democrats would almost certainly regain control of the United States Senate and very possibly the House of Representatives.
In blockbuster poll, Sanders destroys Trump by 13 points | TheHill

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If you live long enough you might become anti-American. The United States is changing in ways you do not like. If it does not happen in 2016 it is coming. As long as median income declines while the stock market reaches new heights capitalism is vulnerable.
 
Poll: More Democrats Now Favor Socialism Than Capitalism

October 24, 2015

In May, the pollster YouGov polled Americans about their feelings on socialism and capitalism. Among Democrats, the two systems polled at about equal.

This month, YouGov decided to poll the same question. Surprisingly, Democrats now have a more positive view of socialism by double digits.
Poll: More Democrats Now Favor Socialism Than Capitalism | Alternet
 
I don't think it matters who said but rather whether it makes sense. Bernie Sanders is on the far left with liberals, communists, socialists, and Democrats all of whom have worked together over decades so that anti-American socialism is now main stream in America.

How can anything that is mainstream be anti-American?

What is mainstream is the consensus. What is the consensus is by any respectable definition "pro American."

You are not pro-American. You are pro what the United States was in the past, and what has been rejected by the voters since.
 
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Politifact

Here’s a sampling of what some historical polls show:

In 1949, 15 percent said they’d like to see the United States go in the direction of socialism. (Gallup)
In 1982, 20 percent said the United States would be better off if it moved toward socialism. (Continental Group)
In 2008, 44 percent said they were not concerned that Obama’s policies may lead to socialism. (Princeton/Newsweek)
In 2011, 31 percent viewed socialism positively. (Pew)
In 2015, 47 percent said they would vote for a socialist for president. (Gallup)
Ben Carson says the number of Americans who 'believe in socialism...is increasing' | PolitiFact
 
How can anything that is mainstream be anti-American?

if communism or Nazism was mainstream it would be anti American since America is about freedom from govt. Make sense now?
 
Μολὼν λαβέ;1065506856 said:
I believe the politically correct pronunciation is "teat." :cool:

I like boobs. Sucking off the government boobs. It rolls off the tongue better. Government breasts sounds creepy.
 
if communism or Nazism was mainstream it would be anti American since America is about freedom from govt. Make sense now?

Not really. You think anyone who disagrees with you is anti American. That right there is a fascistic attitude.

By your criterion those who support most of the changes in the U.S. government and the Constitution are anti American. These changes include direct voting for the Senate, the income tax, and universal suffrage for all American citizens 18 and above.

Who gave you the right to decide who is anti American and pro American? Who gave you the right to decide the definition of freedom? Who gave you the right to decide what the principles of America are?
 
if communism or Nazism was mainstream it would be anti American since America is about freedom from govt. Make sense now?

You are pretty much wrong. The Constitution is about political freedom. Freedom from persecution by the government for one's political affiliation(s).
 
You are pretty much wrong. The Constitution is about political freedom. Freedom from persecution by the government for one's political affiliation(s).

well you can speak in support of Nazis, for example, thanks to free speech but if you try, for example, to abolish one of the branches of govt because Nazis don't want divided power then you would be treasonous or if a Nazi were elected to govt anything he tried to do would be illegal and treasonous since America is about limited govt, not unlimited liberal or Nazi govt. make sense?
 
Where mixing socialism and capitalism works? Or otherwise known as a "mixed economy"? The United States and most of Western nations. None of them are pure capitalist or pure socialist.

Particularly during the postwar New Deal Era.
The New Deal was a series of small socialist tweaks to our capitalist system.
(1947-1980)
Our economy was the strongest on Earth, upward mobility in the middle class was unparalleled, cost of living was a fraction what it is today, wages in real terms (adjusted for inflation) kept pace with costs, health care, higher education, housing, even cars, all of the big ticket items were within reach of almost anyone who simply worked a typical forty hour week.

And yet Ayn Rand, in 1959, chose to rant and whine about how our system sucked.
Mike Wallace asked her to pinpoint what was wrong with what he termed "our modified, regulated capitalist system".



Twenty years later, our fall from grace began, and middle class life has never recovered.
We started taking that crackpot seriously.
Capitalism became anarcho-capitalism.

The US will never ever be socialist.
First, even if pure socialism were totally benign, which it isn't, we'd screw it up because we have zero experience with it. We've been capitalist from the very beginning, so it's best to just add the few tiny tweaks to what we have and leave it at that.
Second, hybrids represent the kind of genetic strength found in Nature.
Purity is anathema to genetics, art, music, literature, even cuisine, and certainly to economics.
Purity is the road to defects. Purity is fundamentalism.
We'll never ever be socialist but the few small socialist tweaks we used in the New Deal Era strengthened our capitalist system.

Removing those tweaks in favor of "trickle down", Randian libertarianism and other dogma has ruined the economy.

The object lesson: If it ain't broke, don't "fix it".
What we had in the New Deal Era wasn't broken, some folks just got too greedy, folks at the top of the food chain, that is.
 
Particularly during the postwar New Deal Era.
The New Deal was a series of small socialist tweaks to our capitalist system.
(1947-1980)
Our economy was the strongest on Earth, upward mobility in the middle class was unparalleled, cost of living was a fraction what it is today, wages in real terms (adjusted for inflation) kept pace with costs, health care, higher education, housing, even cars, all of the big ticket items were within reach of almost anyone who simply worked a typical forty hour week.

And yet Ayn Rand, in 1959, chose to rant and whine about how our system sucked.
Mike Wallace asked her to pinpoint what was wrong with what he termed "our modified, regulated capitalist system".



Twenty years later, our fall from grace began, and middle class life has never recovered.
We started taking that crackpot seriously.
Capitalism became anarcho-capitalism.

The US will never ever be socialist.
First, even if pure socialism were totally benign, which it isn't, we'd screw it up because we have zero experience with it. We've been capitalist from the very beginning, so it's best to just add the few tiny tweaks to what we have and leave it at that.
Second, hybrids represent the kind of genetic strength found in Nature.
Purity is anathema to genetics, art, music, literature, even cuisine, and certainly to economics.
Purity is the road to defects. Purity is fundamentalism.
We'll never ever be socialist but the few small socialist tweaks we used in the New Deal Era strengthened our capitalist system.

Removing those tweaks in favor of "trickle down", Randian libertarianism and other dogma has ruined the economy.

.


of course thats 100% absurd and liberal. The govt in now far bigger or more liberal than ever. Rand would be totally disappointed that liberals have won in America. Do you understand
 
of course thats 100% absurd and liberal. The govt in now far bigger or more liberal than ever. Rand would be totally disappointed that liberals have won in America. Do you understand

I wasn't talking about how big the government was....or IS.
And your Gish Galloping isn't working.
You need to realize something, your continual bait tactics are transparent.
Using bait words doesn't impress people.
And if you already believe liberals have won in America, then you're in for a shock come November.
Your McCarthyist tactics are not doing anything to help conservative or libertarian causes.
They're hurting your causes pretty badly.

And you can stop using "Do you understand?", too.
I understand a lot more than you do.
 
43% in Iowa identify themselves as socialist !

no, they don't.

/thread
 
I understand a lot more than you do.

100% perfectly absurd, you said "Randian libertarianism and other dogma has ruined the economy" without realizing that what we have is more the opposite of what Rand and our Founders wanted. This indicates that you know far far far less . Make sense now?
 
no, they don't. "43% in Iowa identify as socialist"

/thread

how would a liberal know????? This number proves Bernie Sanders can win Iowa - The Washington ...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/.../this-number-proves-bernie-sanders-can- win-iowa/‎
Jan 17, 2016 ... And to be very clear, this question was not whether they would vote for a socialist or sympathize with socialism; it's whether they consider themselves socialist. The 43 percent of likely Iowa Democratic caucus-goers who self-identify as socialist is actually more than the number who identify themselves as .
 
100% perfectly absurd, you said "Randian libertarianism and other dogma has ruined the economy" without realizing that what we have is more the opposite of what Rand and our Founders wanted. This indicates that you know far far far less . Make sense now?

No, because you're wrong.
The New Deal has been largely erased, starting with the Reagan era, and if the Republicans get their way, Medicare and Social Security will be either abolished, voucherized or privatized, thus lopping off two of the largest cornerstones of the social safety net.

I suppose if you're an extremist, which you appear to be, there's communism around EVERY CORNER.
 
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