Koch machine bigger than GOP - positive or negative?

Fletch · Jan 2, 2016

haymarket said:
Libertarians, particularly the infected strain of the disease known as right libertarians or vulgar libertarians, will only be the USEFUL IDIOTS taking us to the point where corporate interests can join with government interests and bring us a new from of fascism.

This will help educate you as to just how somebody who thinks they are advocating for one thing are actually instrumental in bring about something far different than they ever saw coming.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot

Ah. Name calling. Perfect. Look, I get you believe what you believe, but then again, no one is ever quite so certain of their fears than is the paranoid. Feel free to go through the rest of your life peddling that particular brand of insanity that declares that the real enemy of liberty are those who defend it. I have neither the medical skills nor the desire to continue this conversation any further. Feel free to declare victory if that makes you feel better and enjoy the rest of your day.

haymarket · Jan 2, 2016

Fletch said:
Ah. Name calling.

It may have its origins in part of that, but now its an accepted political science term. And it describes perfectly the role right libertarians could well play in bringing fascism to America.

I have neither the medical skills nor the desire to continue this conversation any further.

Allow me to help you construct a more accurate description of your efforts here.

1) Remove the word MEDICAL.
Insert the word COMPREHENSION.
Now you have something.

2) Even more so, remove the word DESIRE.
Insert the word ABILITY.
Now you really have something.

Your new statement - and a far more accurate one would read..... I have neither the comprehension skills nor the ability to continue this conversation any further.

ocean515 · Jan 2, 2016

rabbitcaebannog said:
I see you're not interested in responding back with any facts. Ad Hominems never win an argument.

I'm not responsible for your abhorrence to facts. I've provided ample evidence to support my contention, including links. If you chose to ignore them, that is your decision.

Just because you believe the only people writing legislation are conservative billionaires who belong to ALEC, doesn't mean you are correct. You claim a dislike of billionaires who try to rule over others. You confirmed that. I provided links to billionaires who belong to organizations who write legislation to rule over others. You've rejected those facts.

Nice try, either the dislike is universal, or your dislike is ideologically driven, and therefor one sided.

rabbitcaebannog · Jan 2, 2016

ocean515 said:
I'm not responsible for your abhorrence to facts. I've provided ample evidence to support my contention, including links. If you chose to ignore them, that is your decision.

Just because you believe the only people writing legislation are conservative billionaires who belong to ALEC, doesn't mean you are correct. You claim a dislike of billionaires who try to rule over others. You confirmed that. I provided links to billionaires who belong to organizations who write legislation to rule over others. You've rejected those facts.

Nice try, either the dislike is universal, or your dislike is ideologically driven, and therefor one sided.

Your dislike for unions is evident. You compare the presidents of two unions who make a six figure salary to billionaires. What a rash of desperation. When that was pointed out, you went on the attack. Typical

ocean515 · Jan 2, 2016

rabbitcaebannog said:
Your dislike for unions is evident. You compare the presidents of two unions who make a six figure salary to billionaires. What a rash of desperation.

Your bias and hypocrisy is carved in stone. Mary Kay Henry made over $300,000 per year in 2013. She is on the board of an organization of millionaires and billionaires created to set public policy, and direct legislative action. As you've indicated, this is fine with you, you only have a problem when the other side does it.

https://www.unionfacts.com/employee/Service_Employees/MARY_KAY/HENRY/

rabbitcaebannog · Jan 2, 2016

ocean515 said:
Your bias and hypocrisy is carved in stone. Mary Kay Henry made over $300,000 per year in 2013. She is on the board of an organization of millionaires and billionaires created to set public policy, and direct legislative action. As you've indicated, this is fine with you, you only have a problem when the other side does it.

https://www.unionfacts.com/employee/Service_Employees/MARY_KAY/HENRY/

Yeah, $300,000 dollars is the same as multi-billions. She does not have the same power to control the political system. Wake me up when you have a better comparison.

ocean515 · Jan 2, 2016

rabbitcaebannog said:
Yeah, $300,000 dollars is the same as multi-billions. She does not have the same power to control the political system. Wake me up when you have a better comparison.

She sits on the board of an organization comprised of millionaires and billionaires who seek to influence government and write legislation designed to control people. Wake me up when you can recognize what that means.

As it is, your hypocrisy is clear. It isn't necessary to further establish this fact.

rabbitcaebannog · Jan 2, 2016

ocean515 said:
She sits on the board of an organization comprised of millionaires and billionaires who seek to influence government and write legislation designed to control people. Wake me up when you can recognize what that means.

As it is, your hypocrisy is clear. It isn't necessary to further establish this fact.

You're deflecting like usual. You can't compare her to the Kochs. It is proposterous. Anyway, you've provided no proof that the Democracy Alliance models its own legislation behind closed doors but if it does they are no better than ALEC. No organization should exist that does this kind of thing.

ocean515 · Jan 2, 2016

rabbitcaebannog said:
You're deflecting like usual. You can't compare her to the Kochs. It is proposterous. Anyway, you've provided no proof that the Democracy Alliance models its own legislation behind closed doors but if it does they are no better than ALEC. No organization should exist that does this kind of thing.

I compared the Democracy Alliance to the Kochs. I showed how staggeringly rich unions, as well as the billionaires and millionaires they are affiliated with, are actively doing the same thing as the Koch Brothers. Why you are fixated on a single Board Member is beyond me. Do you know what a Board of Directors does?

rabbitcaebannog · Jan 2, 2016

ocean515 said:
I compared the Democracy Alliance to the Kochs. I showed how staggeringly rich unions, as well as the billionaires and millionaires they are affiliated with, are actively doing the same thing as the Koch Brothers. Why you are fixated on a single Board Member is beyond me. Do you know what a Board of Directors does?

...because it is not the same thing. The type of laws unions push are designed to help laborers. The type of laws business people push are designed to help business. The types of laws a billionaire pushes for is for himself. It is not for many people belonging to an organization but for himself. It's no secret the Kochs push for things that can also hurt other business organizations. It is about them and their bottom line. Now groups like ALEC are secretive and against our American values of transparency and democracy. If the other group you mentioned also operates under secrecy and models its own bills it is as bad as ALEC. You just haven't provided proof of that yet.