Trump 9/11 Nonsense

ModerateGOP said:

So Trump is going around saying someone high up in the CIA knew before hand that 9/11 was going to happen. He is whining because no Republicans want to bash Bush and they don't really like him all that much either. He says George Bush didn't keep us safe. He said that due to his immigration policy, he would have prevented 9/11. What the heck does immigration have anything to do with terrorists hijacking airplanes and FLYING them across the world to kill Americans??? What a loony!

Trump, Bush Continue Battle Over 9/11 Comments and George W. - NBC News

Donald Trump: I would have prevented 9/11 - CNNPolitics.com

Hands down to Jeb for keeping his cool dealing with this wack-job. Jeb, you don't have to respond to this nonsense. Republicans know YOU are NOT your brother, and what you said during the debate was all that needed to be said on the subject. Just keep saying that, but don't let it become your campaign message.

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Truthfully, I don't like this because I liked George W. Bush. He was a better president than any Democrat. He was a classy guy. Problem is, he took a lurch too far to the left in both his terms.

Still, the country needs a real president, and TRUMP is the only man for the job.

Vern said:

my goodness modgop, you failed to address my points and I even shredded your childish and deflecting " did he just ignore the vague warnings and possibilities of potential attacks, " question. Con, asking "questions" is the oldest conservative dodge there is. You are unable to address the facts I post so you rant and whine about me and deflect with "questions". Bush not only ignored the clear and repeated warnings about 9-11 he pushed back that it was just a trick. Bush owns 9-11. Cons like you just whine at the facts because that's all you can do.

And con, what a lucky break for Bush's secret day 1 agenda to invade Iraq that everyone in his admin ignored the clear and repeated warnings of 9-11.

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While I agree with your sentiments here, consider; Obama could have pushed for justice on this issue, however you want to frame that, but didn't. .. why?

Vern said:

my goodness modgop, you failed to address my points and I even shredded your childish and deflecting " did he just ignore the vague warnings and possibilities of potential attacks, " question. Con, asking "questions" is the oldest conservative dodge there is. You are unable to address the facts I post so you rant and whine about me and deflect with "questions". Bush not only ignored the clear and repeated warnings about 9-11 he pushed back that it was just a trick. Bush owns 9-11. Cons like you just whine at the facts because that's all you can do.

And con, what a lucky break for Bush's secret day 1 agenda to invade Iraq that everyone in his admin ignored the clear and repeated warnings of 9-11.

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I ask questions because I don't assume everything about what someone believes. See I ask the poster what the points to their threads are. That still doesn't stop me from understanding what the poster is trying to accomplish. It's a good interrogation technique and I like watching you squirm around my assertions that you are a 9/11 truther. What you are doing is an even older play in the book and has been done by every other conspiracy theorist out there. You should visit the CT section of this website more. You'd love it there!

So you want seven investigations about Bush and Co because Hillary is being targeted as well? Will that make you feel better?

ModerateGOP said:

I ask questions because I don't assume everything about what someone believes. See I ask the poster what the points to their threads are. That still doesn't stop me from understanding what the poster is trying to accomplish. It's a good interrogation technique and I like watching you squirm around my assertions that you are a 9/11 truther. What you are doing is an even older play in the book and has been done by every other conspiracy theorist out there. You should visit the CT section of this website more. You'd love it there!

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er uh modgop, I'm not squirming. I make clear straightforward factual statements. Noticee how you don't respond to my posts, you respond at them. That's what squirming looks like.

So you want seven investigations about Bush and Co because Hillary is being targeted as well? Will that make you feel better?

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con, another dishonest tactic is for cons to make false claims. I want another 9-11 commission because I can show you cheney and Tenet lying to the 9-11 commission. I can show you Bush ignoring the clear and repeated warnings of 9-11. I can show you bush pusing back at the intel waring of 9-11. I point out the 8 (and counting ) investigations of Benghazi to highlight the flaming hypocrisy of conservatives. Here's a crazy idea con, respond to what I post instead of what you wished I posted. here read this again

“The U.S. is not the target of a disinformation campaign by Usama Bin Laden,” the daily brief of June 29 read, using the government’s transliteration of Bin Laden’s first name. Going on for more than a page, the document recited much of the evidence, including an interview that month with a Middle Eastern journalist in which Bin Laden aides warned of a coming attack, as well as competitive pressures that the terrorist leader was feeling, given the number of Islamists being recruited for the separatist Russian region of Chechnya."

Vern said:

1. er uh modgop, I'm not squirming. I want another 9-11 commission because I can show you cheney and Tenet lying to the 9-11 commission. I can show you Bush ignoring the clear and repeated warnings of 9-11. I can show you bush pusing back at the intel waring of 9-11.

2. “The U.S. is not the target of a disinformation campaign by Usama Bin Laden,” the daily brief of June 29 read, using the government’s transliteration of Bin Laden’s first name. Going on for more than a page, the document recited much of the evidence, including an interview that month with a Middle Eastern journalist in which Bin Laden aides warned of a coming attack, as well as competitive pressures that the terrorist leader was feeling, given the number of Islamists being recruited for the separatist Russian region of Chechnya."

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1. Sounds like you really want Bush and co charged for crimes against humanity and all that good stuff 9/11 truthers say! I'm not making any false claims. Have a look at the CT thread of this site. That's what the 9/11 truthers all say all the time. Besides you never actually denied it. So I'll ask you straight out. Are you a 9/11 truther? If not, you better have a dang good reason as to why someone after analyzing all your posts about Bush would think otherwise.

2. That reminds me of an article on a tech blog saying hackers will get you or some local newspaper saying that the big earthquake will hit California. That warning is so vague it's not even good evidence to support your claim of Bush's involvement with 9/11.

ModerateGOP said:

1. Sounds like you really want Bush and co charged for crimes against humanity and all that good stuff 9/11 truthers say! I'm not making any false claims. Have a look at the CT thread of this site. That's what the 9/11 truthers all say all the time. Besides you never actually denied it. So I'll ask you straight out. Are you a 9/11 truther? If not, you better have a dang good reason as to why someone after analyzing all your posts about Bush would think otherwise.

2. That reminds me of an article on a tech blog saying hackers will get you or some local newspaper saying that the big earthquake will hit California. That warning is so vague it's not even good evidence to support your claim of Bush's involvement with 9/11.

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again modgop, respond to what I post, not what you wish I posted or what others have posted. Start with this "human intel" from the 9-11 commission

In July 2001, an FBI agent in the Phoenix field office sent a memo to FBI headquarters and to two agents on international terrorism squads in the New York Field Office, advising of the “possibility of a coordinated effort by Usama Bin Ladin” to send students to the United States to attend civil aviation schools.The agent based his theory on the “inordinate number of individuals of investigative interest” attending such schools in Arizona.8

http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report.pdf

Vern said:

1. again modgop, respond to what I post, not what you wish I posted or what others have posted. Start with this "human intel" from the 9-11 commission

2. In July 2001, an FBI agent in the Phoenix field office sent a memo to FBI headquarters and to two agents on international terrorism squads in the New York Field Office, advising of the “possibility of a coordinated effort by Usama Bin Ladin” to send students to the United States to attend civil aviation schools.The agent based his theory on the “inordinate number of individuals of investigative interest” attending such schools in Arizona.8

http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report.pdf

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1. I am it's called analyzing. This is all stuff I've seen before on 9/11 truther conspiracy sites. That's why I am asking you the question. I'll ask it again, do you see yourself as a 9/11 truther? Yes or No? I can't believe it's this hard to get people to answer yes or no questions...

2. That so vague it's laughable. You are posting someone's theory as proof??? :lamo Next your going to tell me Bush put explosives in the towers himself because some guy said so right?

ModerateGOP said:

1. I am it's called analyzing. This is all stuff I've seen before on 9/11 truther conspiracy sites. That's why I am asking you the question. I'll ask it again, do you see yourself as a 9/11 truther? Yes or No? I can't believe it's this hard to get people to answer yes or no questions...

2. That so vague it's laughable. You are posting someone's theory as proof??? :lamo Next your going to tell me Bush put explosives in the towers himself because some guy said so right?

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I say it's good what trump has done to put some focus on bush ties to 9-11. (I don't see how bush could be more involved than in after the fact criminality)

I really just don't see what "truther" has anything to do with anything... The last numbers I saw was over 80% that believe the government lied to government was some way involved... It's a small minority of people that actually believe the fairy tale we are meant to believe.

Especially now, almost 15 years later, we shouldn't have those same emotional blocks preventing people from taking an unbiased look at the available information.

ModerateGOP said:

1. I am it's called analyzing. This is all stuff I've seen before on 9/11 truther conspiracy sites. That's why I am asking you the question. I'll ask it again, do you see yourself as a 9/11 truther? Yes or No? I can't believe it's this hard to get people to answer yes or no questions...

2. That so vague it's laughable. You are posting someone's theory as proof??? :lamo Next your going to tell me Bush put explosives in the towers himself because some guy said so right?

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oooo con, its not about me. Its about what I post. Its why I don't answer deflecting questions. Cons ask questions because they cant make clear straight forward or honest posts. See how you post "I bet you believe blah blah blah". You're trying to deflect from what I post.

But sadly you did finally attempt to address the clear warning from the FBI. see con, "laughably vague" is rhetoric that you use to convince yourself. Another con "tactic" is to treat each post as if it is in a vacuum. In this vacuum you pretend to ignore that the FBI was told to monitor flight schools for terrorists. So its easy for you think "laughably vague" instead of thinking "they found what they were looking for and did nothing". And in this vacuum you pretend not to remember I already posted this


"Yet, the White House failed to take significant action. Officials at the Counterterrorism Center of the C.I.A. grew apoplectic. On July 9, at a meeting of the counterterrorism group, one official suggested that the staff put in for a transfer so that somebody else would be responsible when the attack took place, two people who were there told me in interviews. The suggestion was batted down, they said, because there would be no time to train anyone else."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/11/opinion/the-bush-white-house-was-deaf-to-9-11-warnings.html

Clarke said that “on June 21, I believe it was, George Tenet called me and said, 'I don't think we're getting the message through. These people aren't acting the way the Clinton people did under similar circumstances.' And I suggested to Tenet that he come down and personally brief Condi Rice, that he bring his terrorism team with him.

“And we sat in the national security adviser's office. And I've used the phrase in the book to describe George Tenet's warnings as ‘He had his hair on fire.’ He was about as excited as I'd ever seen him.

Clarke to White House: ‘Declassify all of it’ - US news - Security | NBC News[/QUOTE]

oh and since you're not going to acknowledge the Minneapolis FBI unless I mention it in this post, they too found TERRORISTS IN FLIGHT SCHOOLS. In this exchange, the guy they are arguing with didn't mention the Phoenix FBI found the same thing.

There was substantial disagreement between Minneapolis agents and FBI headquarters as to what Moussaoui was planning to do. In one conversation between a Minneapolis supervisor and a headquarters agent, the latter complained that Minneapolis’s FISA request was couched in a manner intended to get people “spun up.”The supervisor replied that was precisely his intent. He said he was “trying to keep someone from taking a plane and crashing into the World Trade Center.” The headquarters agent replied that this was not going to happen and that they did not know if Moussaoui was a terrorist.

is that laughably vague? Again, Bush not only ignored the clear and repeated warnings but pushed back.


“The U.S. is not the target of a disinformation campaign by Usama Bin Laden,” the daily brief of June 29 read, using the government’s transliteration of Bin Laden’s first name. Going on for more than a page, the document recited much of the evidence, including an interview that month with a Middle Eastern journalist in which Bin Laden aides warned of a coming attack, as well as competitive pressures that the terrorist leader was feeling, given the number of Islamists being recruited for the separatist Russian region of Chechnya."

now compare that to why we've had 8 Benghazi investigations.

Here is the rest of the portion on Moussaoui that you "left out"

There was substantial disagreement between Minneapolis agents and FBI headquarters as to what Moussaoui was planning to do. In one conversation between a Minneapolis supervisor and a headquarters agent, the latter complained that Minneapolis's FISA request was couched in a manner intended to get people "spun up." The supervisor replied that was precisely his intent. He said he was "trying to keep someone from taking a plane and crashing into the World Trade Center." The headquarters agent replied that this was not going to happen and that they did not know if Moussaoui was a terrorist.101

There is no evidence that either FBI Acting Director Pickard or Assistant Director for Counterterrorism Dale Watson was briefed on the Moussaoui case prior to 9/11. Michael Rolince, the FBI assistant director heading the Bureau's International Terrorism Operations Section (ITOS), recalled being told about Moussaoui in two passing hallway conversations but only in the context that he might be receiving telephone calls from Minneapolis complaining about how headquarters was handling the matter. He never received such a call. Although the acting special agent in charge of Minneapolis called the ITOS supervisors to discuss the Moussaoui case on August 27, he declined to go up the chain of command at FBI headquarters and call Rolince.102

On August 23, DCI Tenet was briefed about the Moussaoui case in a briefing titled "Islamic Extremist Learns to Fly."103 Tenet was also told that Moussaoui wanted to learn to fly a 747, paid for his training in cash, was interested to learn the doors do not open in flight, and wanted to fly a simulated flight from London to New York. He was told that the FBI had arrested Moussaoui because of a visa overstay and that the CIA was working the case with the FBI. Tenet told us that no connection to al Qaeda was apparent to him at the time. Seeing it as an FBI case, he did not discuss the matter with anyone at the White House or the FBI. No connection was made between Moussaoui's presence in the United States and the threat reporting during the summer of 2001.104

On September 11, after the attacks, the FBI office in London renewed their appeal for information about Moussaoui. In response to U.S. requests, the British government supplied some basic biographical information about Moussaoui. The British government informed us that it also immediately tasked intelligence collection facilities for information about Moussaoui. On September 13, the British government received new, sensitive intelligence that Moussaoui had attended an al Qaeda training camp in Afghanistan. It passed this intelligence to the United States on the same day. Had this information been available in late August 2001, the Moussaoui case would almost certainly have received intense, high-level attention.105

The FBI also learned after 9/11 that the millennium terrorist Ressam, who by 2001 was cooperating with investigators, recognized Moussaoui as someone who had been in the Afghan camps.106 As mentioned above, before 9/11 the FBI agents in Minneapolis had failed to persuade supervisors at headquarters that there was enough evidence to seek a FISA warrant to search Moussaoui's computer hard drive and belongings. Either the British information or the Ressam identification would have broken the logjam.

A maximum U.S. effort to investigate Moussaoui conceivably could have unearthed his connections to Binalshibh. Those connections might have brought investigators to the core of the 9/11 plot. The Binalshibh connection was recognized shortly after 9/11, though it was not an easy trail to find. Discovering it would have required quick and very substantial cooperation from the German government, which might well have been difficult to obtain.

However, publicity about Moussaoui's arrest and a possible hijacking threat might have derailed the plot.107 With time, the search for Mihdhar and Hazmi and the investigation of Moussaoui might also have led to a breakthrough that would have disrupted the plot.

next?

ModerateGOP said:

Well good of you to think Bush was a criminal mastermind and warlord. So did he just ignore the vague warnings and possibilities of potential attacks, or was he the puppet master behind the whole thing??? OMG did he put the warnings out in conjunction with the CIA? I'd love to know. :lamo. Because I thought he was an supposed to be an idiot.

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That was always the most entertaining tension with the BDS folks. Somehow the man had to simultaneously be an evil genius capable of manipulating the world, and a drooling imbecile.

cpwill said:

That was always the most entertaining tension with the BDS folks. Somehow the man had to simultaneously be an evil genius capable of manipulating the world, and a drooling imbecile.

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9/11 truthers never want to admit that that's who they are. As Vern here so highlights. His sole mission is to "educate," and "raise questions." Questions that have all been asked and answered before over the past 15 or so years. Yet, he can't answer a simple inquiry of if he considers himself to be a truther.

Vern said:

oooo con, its not about me. Its about what I post.
now compare that to why we've had 8 Benghazi investigations.

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Yet what you post I have all seen before. Where have I seen them before? 9/11 truther boards! That's just the facts. I don't have the time or the will to go through all this nonsense again. Especially with someone who doesn't want to admit that he is a 9/11 truther

This thing Trump is doing. Blaming the GOP and W. for 9/11 is his way of saying he'd be tougher on undocumenteds...than almost anyone else. That his toughness on undocumenteds would go a long way to prevent any 9/11. And his realization that, in order for the US's economy and strong standing in the world to remain, cuts in government spending have to be made. For example:Less spending on undocumenteds. Making other countries pay for military protection and protection against undocumented influxes into America.

I saw a thread saying Trump's proposed tax plan would cost huge amounts of money for America. What Trump is attempting to do is place more spending on the shoulders of private individuals and less on the shoulders of government. So the government spends less.

There's going to be less spending by the federal government as a result. For example, I guess farmers out on their tractors are going to have to provide their own routers for wireless service. The city may have to chip in for towers. I confess that's rhetorical but true.

ModerateGOP said:

9/11 truthers never want to admit that that's who they are. As Vern here so highlights. His sole mission is to "educate," and "raise questions." Questions that have all been asked and answered before over the past 15 or so years. Yet, he can't answer a simple inquiry of if he considers himself to be a truther.

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ModerateGOP said:

Yet what you post I have all seen before. Where have I seen them before? 9/11 truther boards! That's just the facts. I don't have the time or the will to go through all this nonsense again. Especially with someone who doesn't want to admit that he is a 9/11 truther

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Con, you’ve simply posted a string of deflecting posts about me and where I got my info. It adds up to a dishonest dodge on your part. The thread is not about me and I didn’t get my info from truther boards. I got my info from the 9-11 commission and legitimate news sites. You started a thread about “trump 9-11 nonsense” and I posted clear straightforward posts that I backed up to show it was far from nonsense. That’s why you have to deflect and whine.

When you think you are capable of an honest and intelligent debate, feel free to respond

ModerateGOP said:

1. I am it's called analyzing. This is all stuff I've seen before on 9/11 truther conspiracy sites. That's why I am asking you the question. I'll ask it again, do you see yourself as a 9/11 truther? Yes or No? I can't believe it's this hard to get people to answer yes or no questions...

2. That so vague it's laughable. You are posting someone's theory as proof??? :lamo Next your going to tell me Bush put explosives in the towers himself because some guy said so right?

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The point is that Bush and the Conservatives took no action on the dozens of memos and notifications that al Qaeda was a threat.

Conservatives held zero hearings on the threat posed by al Qaeda in the nine months before the attack, yet held three hearings on their stupid Bush Tax Cuts.

BmanMcfly said:

I say it's good what trump has done to put some focus on bush ties to 9-11. (I don't see how bush could be more involved than in after the fact criminality)

I really just don't see what "truther" has anything to do with anything... The last numbers I saw was over 80% that believe the government lied to government was some way involved... It's a small minority of people that actually believe the fairy tale we are meant to believe.

Especially now, almost 15 years later, we shouldn't have those same emotional blocks preventing people from taking an unbiased look at the available information.

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the problem isn't just that Bush and company ignored the warnings, they pushed back. They literally told the intelligence guys it was a trick by al queda to distract us from Iraq. that "excuse" simply defies all logic. And then they don't get to use that "excuse" when the CIA made a special point to tell them " it aint a trick!!!" So, we could maybe, maybe chalk it up to flaming incompetence on their part but Bush's treasury sec told us he had a secret day 1 agenda to invade Iraq. It no longer seems like incompetence when you factor that in.

Its just like inexplicable reason they gave for letting OBL walk out of tora bora. It only makes sense in the context of wanting to invade Iraq.

as far as "believing the govt lied" I can show you that cheney lied to the 9-11 commission. In spite of the fact that he refused to testify under oath and only spoke to the commission chairmen and only in secret and only for an hour, the commission has him getting to the PEOC at 9:57.


"We have concluded, after reviewing all the available evidence, that the vice president arrived in the shelter conference room shortly before 10:00, perhaps at 9:58. "

National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States

that statement defies believability based on the statements of others not even in the PEOC. But it merits further scrutiny when the Transportation Sec said cheney was there when he got there.

MR. MINETA: I didn't know about the order to shoot down. I arrived at the PEOC at about 9:20 a.m. And the president was in Florida, and I believe he was on his way to Louisiana at that point when the conversation that went on between the vice president and the president and the staff that the president had with him.

National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States

as I point out numerous times. we got 8 Benghazi investigations based on an lying "unnamed source" in a fox article. The transportation sec is not an "unnamed source" and others have the VP in the PEOC sooner than 9:57