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Did Trump kill GOP's Hisapnic outreach efforts?

Bob Blaylock said:
No, not at all.

It is the Democrats who side with invading foreign criminals, and against the American people. They are the ones who screw themselves by betraying the very Americans whose votes they seek.
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When, in the last two decades, have Democrats ever tried to get votes from Americans who insult undocumented immigrants?
 
donsutherland1 said:
It suggests a Party that is becoming increasingly disconnected from the electorate. Barring a change in strategy, the long-term costs of this posture could vastly outweigh the short-term costs of Trump's making a third-party run.
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There's a long tradition in American political thought of explicit skepticism and even scorn for public opinion and consensus. That values, those that approximate with the Founders and align with the Constitution, should always reign supreme over the whims of majorities, and that the majority's caprice is inherently dangerous. The GOP's decision to abandon conviction politics reflects America's more general abandoning of (small-r) republican idealism, and the negation of the notion of any sort of "Americanism"; a pernicious trend correlatable with the rise of New Deal liberalism.

The Republicans have always suffered an identity crisis. This is not a recent phenomenon. The party that freed the slaves absorbed populist segregationists. The party that absorbed the Bourbon Democrats accepted the followers of Albert Ritchie and attracted strange allies in Mencken, among others. The party that was supposed to carry the torch of conservatism, instead was caught in a wind called neo-conservatism.

The GOP in its present incarnation doesn't actually represent anything. It represents reaction to the evolving platform of Progressivism. A party cannot survive by merely imitating, hustling and conning, and by consistently failing to innovate and captivate. The Tory party in Britain is the most successful force in the history of parliamentary democracy precisely because it has always represented something, something eternal and immaterial. Not merely the reflexive disapproval of left-wing thought, but a confident assertion of unique beliefs embedded in the British experience. The Republicans need to do the name, and fast, or else see the acceleration of their imminent death.
 
Politics is very much based on how people perceive a politicians, or party. Like it or not the GOP will be lumped in with Trump. Just like Romney was lumped in with Limbaugh calling a woman a slut for 3 days on his show, or the idiot Republicans who said rape was God's will, and a woman can turn off her reproduction after she's raped. They cost Romney the younger woman vote in 2012.

No moderate Republican wanted to see Trump run for president, they know he can, and will only do harm to the party's chances in 2016. He'll say things like this to get publicity and to fire up the far right loons and racists in the GOP, but with the moderate voters, and the moderate voters matter A LOT in a general election, he is only doing immense harm to the GOP.
 
Cavendish said:
The GOP in its present incarnation doesn't actually represent anything. It represents reaction to the evolving platform of Progressivism. A party cannot survive by merely imitating, hustling and conning, and by consistently failing to innovate and captivate. The Tory party in Britain is the most successful force in the history of parliamentary democracy precisely because it has always represented something, something eternal and immaterial. Not merely the reflexive disapproval of left-wing thought, but a confident assertion of unique beliefs embedded in the British experience. The Republicans need to do the name, and fast, or else see the acceleration of their imminent death.
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I suspect this inability to define a positive message as to what the Republican Party stands for, where it seeks to lead the nation, and how it seeks to accomplish that pursuit is part of the reason the Party has grown less relevant on the big issues voters find important. Merely positioning itself as the anti-Obama Party or anti-Clinton Party will only get it so far. It needs to give people a reason to support it, not just make a case for voting against the other party.

Moreover, message must be tied to context to be effective. Principles can be timeless e.g., advocacy of limited government (not the same thing as no government). However, the content needs to be specific and relevant. During the early 1980s when the nation was facing stagflation, large tax cuts aimed at stimulating the economy were relevant. In today's context, that message lacks the same appeal, because the economy is structurally different from what it was some 35 years ago. Then, reducing taxes to encourage people to take risks in producing more (increasing supply, which would lower prices given the prevailing demand curve) was powerful, as it offered a way out of stagflation. Today, ensuring that Americans have the skills and flexibility to deal with an intensely competitive and dynamic economy is much more relevant.

Dissatisfaction with the government is currently ranked as the top problem identified in a recent Gallup poll (Americans Name Government as No. 1 U.S. Problem) followed by the economy in general. If one wants to reconcile these two issues, the relevant question concerns what specific measures the government can and should take within the context of a market economy to address the nation's economic challenges. Reducing government's role, cutting taxes, or reducing regulations are generalities that don't say much and arguably raise as many questions as they answer. Identifying specific areas in which government would reduce its role, specific empirically-supported tax policy changes (emphasis on empirical support is crucial), and specific regulations, as well as concrete programs that could strengthen economic opportunity and innovation would offer a reasonable starting point.
 
I think Trump will ultimately have the opposite affect. Trump is a temporary blurb. The tree that will last are Walker, Bush and Rubio. Unfortunately Bush will end up with the nomination (I'll stay home because I've already voted in the Bush V Clinton election) and the Hispanics will likely vote for Bush who will win in a landslide. Why they vote for Bush is pretty simple. The Republican party will have cast down the anti-immigrant (as he is branded, not his actual stance) and picked the amnesty loving Jebb. That, and nobody will vote for Clinton. This may be the first electoral college that goes 100%.
 
Bob Blaylock said:
No. Only invading foreign criminals, and traitors who take the side of these invaders against that of the American people, have any cause to be offended by Trump's remark.
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You need to look closer at what Trump actually said. You are absolutely wrong.
 
MMC said:
Mornin Ludin. :2wave: Panama chimed in and said they wont send anyone to represent them with his pageants. There will be more slow drip with it. Trump hurt himself and his campaign with it, not the GOP.

Not with Cruz and Rubio running for the Presidency.
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I disagree, I think he helped himself. The reason is he didn't trip over himself making apologies and firing back at the GOP and those that are dumping him. Those that are dumping him are simply giving opportunity for others to step in and pick his brand up which is already happening because the Reelz network picked his pageant up for televising. People like people who have balls, and Trump has big gold plated brass ones.
 
disneydude said:
Sorry....it isn't just one poll. Its several.
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Sorry...they all say the same thing. That 12% of a a few hundred people think something. Extrapolating that to 40 million republicans is speculation, not fact.
 
jonny5 said:
Sorry...they all say the same thing. That 12% of a a few hundred people think something. Extrapolating that to 40 million republicans is speculation, not fact.
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Is it unfair to read into the same polls that jindal is out of it and bush is in the lead?
Or you just pick "outliers" you don't like?
 
PirateMk1 said:
I disagree, I think he helped himself. The reason is he didn't trip over himself making apologies and firing back at the GOP and those that are dumping him. Those that are dumping him are simply giving opportunity for others to step in and pick his brand up which is already happening because the Reelz network picked his pageant up for televising. People like people who have balls, and Trump has big gold plated brass ones.
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Heya Pirate. :2wave: Well he has dropped in the Debate Polling and a few others. We will see if he can get over the long term affect. Even Republican Hispanic Groups want an apology from him.
 
ksu_aviator said:
I think Trump will ultimately have the opposite affect. Trump is a temporary blurb. The tree that will last are Walker, Bush and Rubio. Unfortunately Bush will end up with the nomination (I'll stay home because I've already voted in the Bush V Clinton election) and the Hispanics will likely vote for Bush who will win in a landslide. Why they vote for Bush is pretty simple. The Republican party will have cast down the anti-immigrant (as he is branded, not his actual stance) and picked the amnesty loving Jebb. That, and nobody will vote for Clinton. This may be the first electoral college that goes 100%.
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If Jeb gets the nomination I assure you he will have a very hard time getting the presidency because quite frankly more than a few Republican voters and independents will stay home because of the Bush/Clinton replay rewind election. I suspect that if those two are the respective nominees and there is no third party candidate then likely it will be the lowest turnout presidential race in modern history. It would also accelerate the end of the Republican party as it is currently known.
 
When we look at what Trump said,
"When do we beat Mexico at the border? They're laughing at us, at our stupidity. And now they are beating us economically. They are not our friend, believe me. ... When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They are bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people."
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It is demeaning to Hispanics in general and Mexicans in particular.
I don't think it hurts the GOP much, but it does not help Trump, to insult so many voters.
And yes many Hispanics voters took his words as an insult if not to themselves,
then to their parents or grand parents, who worked hard to build a new life for their family.
If those are his own choice of words, he should be way more selective,
if the words are those of a speech writer, Well Trump already knows those words, "Your Fired"!
 
MMC said:
Heya Pirate. :2wave: Well he has dropped in the Debate Polling and a few others. We will see if he can get over the long term affect. Even Republican Hispanic Groups want an apology from him.
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It will probably be a cold day in hell before they get that apology. Its a long race and Trump has plenty of money. I don't particularly like his brand of politics, but I respect his guts.
 
MMC said:
Mornin Chomsky. :2wave:


Donald Trump Stands Alone After Republicans Officially Distance Themselves.....

Mitt Romney, Jeb Bush and other top GOP leaders speak out about the offensive comments Trump made in his 2016 presidential campaign announcement.....snip~

https://gma.yahoo.com/video/donald-trump-stands-alone-republicans-113958992.html


Trump says he don't care. Turned on the Godsmack.....I Alone! :lol:
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Hey there, MMC.

Yeah, I was thinking of adding a second half to my post, but was too lazy early this Monday morn after a holiday weekend!

But, the GOP are sort-of stuck with Mr. Trump - if you remember, most serious GOP candidates (like Mitt Romney) have had to make the trip to his office for his imprimatur (along with that of Sheldon Adelson) as they seek the Presidency.

So now that he's a candidate, I think it gets dicey for them, specifically dicey for the party moreso than the individual candidates, who will be attacking each-other irrespective of the reason.

Mr. Trump's a big draw, and is popular among the Republican constituency - I really don't know how they're going to get rid of him!

But they do have a definite problem when they have a candidate with strong views alienating perhaps the determining demographic of the election, and he's polling #2 in a field of many, while also being wildly popular with the base. I'm sure Reince Priebus is pulling out hairs over this one.

And Mr. Trump is powerful enough, and erratic enough, to cause real problems if crossed. He's sort-of the 'Dennis Rodman' of the GOP.
 
PirateMk1 said:
If Jeb gets the nomination I assure you he will have a very hard time getting the presidency because quite frankly more than a few Republican voters and independents will stay home because of the Bush/Clinton replay rewind election. I suspect that if those two are the respective nominees and there is no third party candidate then likely it will be the lowest turnout presidential race in modern history. It would also accelerate the end of the Republican party as it is currently known.
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I agree.

But there is additional danger for the GOP - while many Dems don't like Secy Clinton, there may be a core group (perhaps older women who lived through the feminist movement of the '70's/early '80's) who will come-out to vote for her, much as Afro-Americans came-out in force for President Obama. That's not counting those of different demographics who would like to be part of the history of electing an African-American or female President. Also, when you have a depressed turnout due to lack-of-interest, the smaller core & special interests become over-represented (in terms of percentage of votes cast).

There's a lot going on, here.
 
Chomsky said:
Hey there, MMC.

Yeah, I was thinking of adding a second half to my post, but was too lazy early this Monday morn after a holiday weekend!

But, the GOP are sort-of stuck with Mr. Trump - if you remember, most serious GOP candidates (like Mitt Romney) have had to make the trip to his office for his imprimatur (along with that of Sheldon Adelson) as they seek the Presidency.

So now that he's a candidate, I think it gets dicey for them, specifically dicey for the party moreso than the individual candidates, who will be attacking each-other irrespective of the reason.

Mr. Trump's a big draw, and is popular among the Republican constituency - I really don't know how they're going to get rid of him!

But they do have a definite problem when they have a candidate with strong views alienating perhaps the determining demographic of the election, and he's polling #2 in a field of many, while also being wildly popular with the base. I'm sure Reince Priebus is pulling out hairs over this one.

And Mr. Trump is powerful enough, and erratic enough, to cause real problems if crossed. He's sort-of the 'Dennis Rodman' of the GOP.
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Well, I think many will point out how he has stated several times he will stand with the Tea party. His remarks don't help with what the GOP was doing since 2012. But with More Republican Latinos jumping on him. They can get back on track.


"Donald Trump's comments are hurtful for the cause of Republicans who want to reach out not just to Latinos but across many different ethnic barriers," said Ben Domenech, founder of The Federalist, a conservative opinion website, who co-authored a 2012 guide for Republicans on Hispanic outreach. "The problem with those comments is made worse by the fact that people will continue to confuse Trump with a Republican, which he is not, as opposed to thinking of him as an entertainer, which he is."....snip~

Donald Trump hinders Republican Latino outreach - CNNPolitics.com
 
PirateMk1 said:
Depends on which "latino" you talk to.
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I was talking about the entire Hispanic population, not just Latinos, but sure, the Hispanic population is not a monolith. However, because the GOP is trying very hard to win Hispanic votes, pissing many of them off hurts it.
 
MMC said:
Well, I think many will point out how he has stated several times he will stand with the Tea party. His remarks don't help with what the GOP was doing since 2012. But with More Republican Latinos jumping on him. They can get back on track.


"Donald Trump's comments are hurtful for the cause of Republicans who want to reach out not just to Latinos but across many different ethnic barriers," said Ben Domenech, founder of The Federalist, a conservative opinion website, who co-authored a 2012 guide for Republicans on Hispanic outreach. "The problem with those comments is made worse by the fact that people will continue to confuse Trump with a Republican, which he is not, as opposed to thinking of him as an entertainer, which he is."....snip~

Donald Trump hinders Republican Latino outreach - CNNPolitics.com
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You are right, in that Sen Rubio does change the dynamics a bit, though I'm not sure how far 'Cuban Hispanic' will translate to 'Mexican Hispanic', but it may.

I don't see Mr. Rubio getting the nomination, though - I believe it will go to Governors Bush or Walker. However, I think it's reasonably likely Sen. Rubio could be picked as V.P., and he would be extremely effective there. The only issue would be if the GOP want to run a female V.P. (Ms. Fiorina) to counter Secy. Clinton's female demographics. Then the V.P. choice would seem to be between Hispanic or female - I'd personally pick Hispanic.

Edit: Actually, Gov. (Susan) Martinez would make a great V.P. running-mate in terms of demographics (female + latina)
 
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ThePlayDrive said:
I was talking about the entire Hispanic population, not just Latinos, but sure, the Hispanic population is not a monolith. However, because the GOP is trying very hard to win Hispanic votes, pissing many of them off hurts it.
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You would be mildly surprised at how many actually agree with the man or are willing to hear him out. Surprises me. I live in California, though I am transitioning out of state, plenty of "Latinos" to speak to. He didn't piss off as many as one would have thought.
 
longview said:
When we look at what Trump said,

When do we beat Mexico at the border? They're laughing at us, at our stupidity. And now they are beating us economically. They are not our friend, believe me. ... When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They are bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people."
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It is demeaning to Hispanics in general and Mexicans in particular.
I don't think it hurts the GOP much, but it does not help Trump, to insult so many voters.
And yes many Hispanics voters took his words as an insult if not to themselves,
then to their parents or grand parents, who worked hard to build a new life for their family.
If those are his own choice of words, he should be way more selective,
if the words are those of a speech writer, Well Trump already knows those words, "Your Fired"!
Click to expand...


I'm not sure what you're suggesting.
If you're saying Trump is wrong and Mexico (and other Countries) IS sending their best then why would this would be necessary ...
Obama Immigration Reform 2015: More
... the implementation of PEP, which would replace the Secure Communities program, a controversial policy adopted in 2009 that aimed to identify and deport “criminal aliens through modernized information sharing.” PEP would allow custom agents to take an undocumented immigrant into custody only when he or she has been convicted of certain, serious crimes, or when he or she presents a national security threat.
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So you see, there ARE criminal aliens and everyone recognizes it ... even Obama but, granted, his programs are window dressing but he had to pay lip service.
 
The GOP has had a million chances to shut the border, and to fix the immigration problem. Hell Reagan gave illegals amnesty and Bush 2 wanted to. But they never have fixed it. When they have the WH they actually do less. Why? Because the GOP is very business friendly, and the businesses love immigrants, both legal and illegal. So all this nonsense that this is all the Dems doing, or Obama's doing is BS.
 
bubbabgone said:
I'm not sure what you're suggesting.
If you're saying Trump is wrong and Mexico (and other Countries) IS sending their best then why would this would be necessary ...
Obama Immigration Reform 2015: More

So you see, there ARE criminal aliens and everyone recognizes it ... even Obama but, granted, his programs are window dressing but he had to pay lip service.
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I am saying regardless of weather he is right or wrong, his choice of wording offended a large segment
of voters.
 
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