NY Teacher Exam Thrown Out For Being Discriminatory

Doc91478 · Jun 9, 2015

NY Teacher Exam Thrown Out For Being Discriminatory (because too many minorities flunk it)

By Blake Neff
June 6, 2015

A federal judge in New York has struck down a test used by New York City to vet potential teachers, finding the test of knowledge illegally discriminated against racial minorities due to their lower scores.

At first glance, the city’s second Liberal Arts and Science Test (LAST-2) seems fairly innocuous. Unlike the unfair literacy tests of Jim Crow(http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/questi...teracytest.pdf), LAST-2 was given to every teaching candidate in New York, and it was simply a test to make sure that teachers had a basic high school-level understanding of both the liberal arts and the sciences.

One sample question(http://www.nystce.nesinc.com/PDFs/NY..._prepguide.pdf) from the test asked prospective educators to identify the mathematical principle of a linear relationship when given four examples; another asked them to read four passages from the Constitution and identify which illustrated checks and balances. Besides factual knowledge, the test also checks basic academic skills, such as reading comprehension and the ability to read basic charts and graphs. Nevertheless, this apparently neutral subject matter contained an insidious kernel of racism, because Hispanic and black applicants had a passage rate only 54 to 75 percent of the passage rate for whites.

(Excerpt)

Read more:
http://dailycaller.com/2015/06/06/ny...iscriminatory/

IMO, that this is just a series of why our education system is/has failed our children. Progressives claim that if you can't pass a test, it is the fault of the test not the poor education of the individual. The same thing is happening with the civil service exams for the Fire and Police Departments throughout the nation. The end result is poor fire, police and education for our inner urban cities. I await the counter explanations to why the Progressive plantation overseers prefer to keep and increase these actions.

Μολὼν λαβέ · Jun 9, 2015

Doc91478 said:
NY Teacher Exam Thrown Out For Being Discriminatory (because too many minorities flunk it)

By Blake Neff
June 6, 2015

A federal judge in New York has struck down a test used by New York City to vet potential teachers, finding the test of knowledge illegally discriminated against racial minorities due to their lower scores.

At first glance, the city’s second Liberal Arts and Science Test (LAST-2) seems fairly innocuous. Unlike the unfair literacy tests of Jim Crow(http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/questi...teracytest.pdf), LAST-2 was given to every teaching candidate in New York, and it was simply a test to make sure that teachers had a basic high school-level understanding of both the liberal arts and the sciences.

One sample question(http://www.nystce.nesinc.com/PDFs/NY..._prepguide.pdf) from the test asked prospective educators to identify the mathematical principle of a linear relationship when given four examples; another asked them to read four passages from the Constitution and identify which illustrated checks and balances. Besides factual knowledge, the test also checks basic academic skills, such as reading comprehension and the ability to read basic charts and graphs. Nevertheless, this apparently neutral subject matter contained an insidious kernel of racism, because Hispanic and black applicants had a passage rate only 54 to 75 percent of the passage rate for whites.

(Excerpt)

Read more:
http://dailycaller.com/2015/06/06/ny...iscriminatory/

IMO, that this is just a series of why our education system is/has failed our children. Progressives claim that if you can't pass a test, it is the fault of the test not the poor education of the individual. The same thing is happening with the civil service exams for the Fire and Police Departments throughout the nation. The end result is poor fire, police and education for our inner urban cities. I await the counter explanations to why the Progressive plantation overseers prefer to keep and increase these actions.

Why would a high school math teacher candidate need to pass a test containing "neutral subject matter" to become a certified math teacher?

He/she won't be teaching neutral subject matter.

Why would a 7th grade reading teacher candidate need to "identify the mathematical principle of a linear relationship" in order to teach junior high/middle school reading?

He/she won't be teaching mathematical principles of linear relationships.

It makes no sense to me.

polgara · Jun 9, 2015

Μολὼν λαβέ;1064703223 said:
Why would a high school math teacher candidate need to pass a test containing "neutral subject matter" to become a certified math teacher?

He/she won't be teaching neutral subject matter.

Why would a 7th grade reading teacher candidate need to "identify the mathematical principle of a linear relationship" in order to teach junior high/middle school reading?

He/she won't be teaching mathematical principles of linear relationships.

It makes no sense to me.

Greetings, Mo. :2wave:

It would be interesting to know how many whites also flunked these tests. As an example, suppose there were 10 whites and 10 non-whites math teacher candidates taking the test. Let's say that four whites incorrectly answered the question on "neutral subject matter," but five non-whites incorrectly answered it. That's discriminatory? I could be a great math teacher, no matter my race, but the question is ridiculous, IMO. Same with the 7th grade reading teacher being asked a math question, when it doesn't apply to their field of study. Would a math teacher be expected to fill in for an absent reading teacher on any given day at some school?

The test isn't discriminatory - it's just totally ridiculous, and skewed to get a desired result, IMO. That's like a gal going to take a driving test to get her license, and being asked by the instructor to explain how to build a swimming pool. Some of each race might know, so that makes them better drivers? Everyone should be questioning this, no matter what race they are! Sheesh! :thumbdown:

RAMOSS · Jun 9, 2015

It's junk from the daily caller. I am sure that they are not telling the full story. Of course, since the links are all broken it's hard to check what they really said. It looks like it was a cut/paste job, where the links were cut/paste in a shortened format .. but the link that was displayed was not valid.

Μολὼν λαβέ · Jun 9, 2015

polgara said:
Greetings, Mo. :2wave:

It would be interesting to know how many whites also flunked these tests. As an example, suppose there were 10 whites and 10 non-whites math teacher candidates taking the test. Let's say that four whites incorrectly answered the question on "neutral subject matter," but five non-whites incorrectly answered it. That's discriminatory? I could be a great math teacher, no matter my race, but the question is ridiculous, IMO. Same with the 7th grade reading teacher being asked a math question, when it doesn't apply to their field of study. Would a math teacher be expected to fill in for an absent reading teacher on any given day at some school?

The test isn't discriminatory - it's just totally ridiculous, and skewed to get a desired result, IMO. That's like a gal going to take a driving test to get her license, and being asked by the instructor to explain how to build a swimming pool. Some of each race might know, so that makes them better drivers? Everyone should be questioning this, no matter what race they are! Sheesh! :thumbdown:

Greetings, Miss P! :2wave:

Makes sense to me!

Doc91478 · Jun 10, 2015

Doc91478 said:
NY Teacher Exam Thrown Out For Being Discriminatory (because too many minorities flunk it)

By Blake Neff
June 6, 2015

A federal judge in New York has struck down a test used by New York City to vet potential teachers, finding the test of knowledge illegally discriminated against racial minorities due to their lower scores.

At first glance, the city’s second Liberal Arts and Science Test (LAST-2) seems fairly innocuous. Unlike the unfair literacy tests of Jim Crow(http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/questi...teracytest.pdf), LAST-2 was given to every teaching candidate in New York, and it was simply a test to make sure that teachers had a basic high school-level understanding of both the liberal arts and the sciences.

One sample question(http://www.nystce.nesinc.com/PDFs/NY..._prepguide.pdf) from the test asked prospective educators to identify the mathematical principle of a linear relationship when given four examples; another asked them to read four passages from the Constitution and identify which illustrated checks and balances. Besides factual knowledge, the test also checks basic academic skills, such as reading comprehension and the ability to read basic charts and graphs. Nevertheless, this apparently neutral subject matter contained an insidious kernel of racism, because Hispanic and black applicants had a passage rate only 54 to 75 percent of the passage rate for whites.

(Excerpt)

Read more:
http://dailycaller.com/2015/06/06/ny...iscriminatory/

IMO, that this is just a series of why our education system is/has failed our children. Progressives claim that if you can't pass a test, it is the fault of the test not the poor education of the individual. The same thing is happening with the civil service exams for the Fire and Police Departments throughout the nation. The end result is poor fire, police and education for our inner urban cities. I await the counter explanations to why the Progressive plantation overseers prefer to keep and increase these actions.

http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/question/feb12/literacytest.pdf
http://www.nystce.nesinc.com/PDFs/NY_fld001_prepguide.pdf

HowardBThiname · Jun 10, 2015

Μολὼν λαβέ;1064703223 said:
Why would a high school math teacher candidate need to pass a test containing "neutral subject matter" to become a certified math teacher?

He/she won't be teaching neutral subject matter.

Why would a 7th grade reading teacher candidate need to "identify the mathematical principle of a linear relationship" in order to teach junior high/middle school reading?

He/she won't be teaching mathematical principles of linear relationships.

It makes no sense to me.

To some extent, I see where you're coming from, but I think a well-rounded education is just that - well rounded. A teacher of children should be able to communicate to his students from an educated perspective, whether or not he specializes in a specific subject.

It's like requiring high school students to pass history classes before graduation. How many will actually use their knowledge of history in their lives? Most will forget what they learned, but that doesn't mean we should dumb down the graduation requirements.

Μολὼν λαβέ · Jun 10, 2015

HowardBThiname said:
To some extent, I see where you're coming from, but I think a well-rounded education is just that - well rounded. A teacher of children should be able to communicate to his students from an educated perspective, whether or not he specializes in a specific subject.

It's like requiring high school students to pass history classes before graduation. How many will actually use their knowledge of history in their lives? Most will forget what they learned, but that doesn't mean we should dumb down the graduation requirements.

I see you've never been in the business. One can communicate well without being knowledgeable of all subject matter. The subject matter a teacher teaches is what's important they understand well. That and pedagogy that allows a teacher to run an effective classroom.

I'll take "neutral subject matter" for $500, Alex, does not apply here.

HowardBThiname · Jun 10, 2015

Μολὼν λαβέ;1064704776 said:
I see you've never been in the business. One can communicate well without being knowledgeable of all subject matter. The subject matter a teacher teaches is what's important they understand well. That and pedagogy that allows a teacher to run an effective classroom.

I'll take "neutral subject matter" for $500, Alex, does not apply here.

So, we should not hold our children's educators to a general standard of knowledge or test the way they process information?

Great idea. :roll:

Tetron · Jun 10, 2015

Here is a link that talks about it more neutrally. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/06/n...rk-teachers-exam-is-also-racially-biased.html

The judicial decision that this is a racist test because minorities arnt doing as well is a poor legal basis for the decision. The burden of proof should be on the prosecuting attorney to demonstrate where specifically the test is racist. The idea that any test that a minority fails more often then a white person must be inherently racist is a poor legal precedent to set.

There is a great deal of data showing that on average native born minorities test at lower levels then native born whites on the same subject matter in the with same socioeconomic background. There may be many reasons why this is true, including various forms of racism, but such statistics indicate that just because a minority group does poorly on a test there is no reason to conclude that the test is racist. Racial achievement gap in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hard Truth · Jun 10, 2015

"..The judge found that National Evaluation Systems, now called Evaluation Systems, part of Pearson Education, went about the process backward. “Instead of beginning with ascertaining the job tasks of New York teachers, the two LAST examinations began with the premise that all New York teachers should be required to demonstrate an understanding of the liberal arts,” Judge Wood wrote...."
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/06/n...achers-exam-is-also-racially-biased.html?_r=0

Μολὼν λαβέ · Jun 10, 2015

HowardBThiname said:
So, we should not hold our children's educators to a general standard of knowledge or test the way they process information?

Great idea. :roll:

News flash, states do.

A federal judge on Friday found that an exam for New York teaching candidates was racially discriminatory because it did not measure skills necessary to do the job,

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/06/nyregion/judge-rules-second-version-of-new-york-teachers-exam-is-also-racially-biased.html?_r=1

You can take the word "racially" out of the equation and the ruling still applies.

Mason66 · Jun 11, 2015

Hard Truth said:
"..The judge found that National Evaluation Systems, now called Evaluation Systems, part of Pearson Education, went about the process backward. “Instead of beginning with ascertaining the job tasks of New York teachers, the two LAST examinations began with the premise that all New York teachers should be required to demonstrate an understanding of the liberal arts,” Judge Wood wrote...."
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/06/n...achers-exam-is-also-racially-biased.html?_r=0

When somebody goes to college to get a degree for a teaching job, do they only take classes for the area they want to teach?

Does a person that wants to be a math teacher take only math courses exclusively?

Ockham · Jun 11, 2015

So if minorities score lower on tests, the test is at fault and discriminatory?

Why these teachers had to take the test --- could be the school board required it, or the administration required it. Why they had to take the test isn't the point, why is it discriminatory according to the judge, because minorities score lower on the test than others?

sangha · Jun 11, 2015

Tetron said:
Here is a link that talks about it more neutrally. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/06/n...rk-teachers-exam-is-also-racially-biased.html

The judicial decision that this is a racist test because minorities arnt doing as well is a poor legal basis for the decision.

In that case, it's a good thing that wasn't the legal basis for the decision. The basis was that the test tested skills which are unnecessary for the job

Once it was established that minority applicants were failing at a disproportionately high rate, the burden shifted to education officials to prove that the skills being tested were necessary to do the job; otherwise, the test would be ruled discriminatory.

Tetron · Jun 11, 2015

sangha said:
In that case, it's a good thing that wasn't the legal basis for the decision. The basis was that the test tested skills which are unnecessary for the job

Lets look at your quote carefully, as it proves my point. "Once it was established that minority applicants were failing at a disproportionately high rate" this is the reason that the judges ruled the test invalid, in other words the test was "guilty" and the teachers had to try and prove its innocence. This is a reversal of our traditional approach. " the burden shifted to education officials to prove that the skills being tested were necessary to do the job; otherwise, the test would be ruled discriminatory. " This means that because minority's tested poorly on this exam, the test (and by extension the test makers) were determined to be racist and therefore had to try and defend themselves. This means that without evidence the test makers were declared guilty of racism until proven innocent. Thats just bad legal practice.

sangha · Jun 11, 2015

Tetron said:
Lets look at your quote carefully, as it proves my point. "Once it was established that minority applicants were failing at a disproportionately high rate" this is the reason that the judges ruled the test invalid, in other words the test was "guilty" and the teachers had to try and prove its innocence. This is a reversal of our traditional approach. " the burden shifted to education officials to prove that the skills being tested were necessary to do the job; otherwise, the test would be ruled discriminatory. " This means that because minority's tested poorly on this exam, the test (and by extension the test makers) were determined to be racist and therefore had to try and defend themselves. This means that without evidence the test makers were declared guilty of racism until proven innocent. Thats just bad legal practice.

The "innocent until proven guilty, beyond a reasonable doubt" is for criminal trials and not for civil trials. Civil law is loaded with matters that require the respondent to prove their case.

And the test makers were not declared guilty without evidence. The evidence was their inability to demonstrate that the test tested skills that were necessary to perform the job

Also, the test makers were not "declared racist"; the test itself was found to be disciminatory because it had a racially disparate impact that had no legitimate justification. If you're going to hire people based on the results of a test, then the test should measure skills needed to perform the job and not just ask questions that have nothing to do with the applicants ability to do the job.

nota bene · Jun 11, 2015

Mason66 said:
When somebody goes to college to get a degree for a teaching job, do they only take classes for the area they want to teach?

Does a person that wants to be a math teacher take only math courses exclusively?

Until fairly recently, those who wished to make teaching a career did take degrees in education and very often from colleges that called themselves "teaching colleges."

I'll leave it to education majors to discuss the merits of degree work that focuses on education courses versus a degree in math with a minor in education.

As for the general expectation of what a baccalaureate should be, the old hope was for a "liberal" education, meaning that math majors should at least be exposed to philosophy, the social sciences, and what colleges refer to as "citizenship hours"--government and history courses...just as history majors should have exposure to basic sciences.

reinoe · Jun 11, 2015

Μολὼν λαβέ;1064703223 said:
Why would a high school math teacher candidate need to pass a test containing "neutral subject matter" to become a certified math teacher?

He/she won't be teaching neutral subject matter.

Why would a 7th grade reading teacher candidate need to "identify the mathematical principle of a linear relationship" in order to teach junior high/middle school reading?

He/she won't be teaching mathematical principles of linear relationships.

It makes no sense to me.

Even if it's not relevant I'd rather not have mindless drones teaching kids.

NY Teacher Exam Thrown Out For Being Discriminatory

Doc91478

Μολὼν λαβέ

Si vis pacem, para bellum

polgara

RAMOSS

Μολὼν λαβέ

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Doc91478

HowardBThiname

Μολὼν λαβέ

Si vis pacem, para bellum

HowardBThiname

Tetron

Member

Hard Truth

Μολὼν λαβέ

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Mason66

Ockham

Noblesse oblige

sangha

Tetron

Member

sangha

nota bene

reinoe