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The Problem with Rand [W:68]

MTAtech said:
One can't win a Republcans primary as a libertarian because they are only 20% of the voters in those primaries and less of the general voters.

But Republcans candidates, please tack as right as you can to make it easier on the real moderate party, the democrats.
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I do not even think they are 20% of the primary voters, that number is a bit high. The issue comes down to appealing to social conservatism and Libertarians, that is fundamentally opposing positions on the main issues Republicans make noise about. Abortion, marriage equality, etc. But even on foreign affairs there is little room for today's Republican Party to consider Libertarian points of view. For Rand Paul it is clear that he leans Republican.
 
haymarket said:
Rand Paul claims to be both. It is NOT me who is extreme for simply noticing that reality.

Just 24 hours into his campaign he has already taken on as the enemy the one group you need on your side - or at least not against you.

On first official day on the trail, Rand Paul turns in a prickly performance - The Washington Post

Kelly Grills Rand Paul on ‘Thin-Skinned’ Charge, But Tells Chuck Todd to ‘Butt Out’ | Mediaite

The man seems tone deaf to the realities of politics.
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the media is playing its hand too soon, and it is too obvious. Rand appreciated it, and likely got a nice bump in the primary polls yesterday. the more the liberal media dog him, the less the GOP can paint him as an outsider.

the war on women angle is going to be played to the hilt, and women in the media will do everything they can to carry Hitlery's water. going to be interesting!
 
ARealConservative said:
the media is playing its hand too soon, and it is too obvious. Rand appreciated it, and likely got a nice bump in the primary polls yesterday. the more the liberal media dog him, the less the GOP can paint him as an outsider.

the war on women angle is going to be played to the hilt, and women in the media will do everything they can to carry Hitlery's water. going to be interesting!
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Well Rand Paul stated he wants to cut spending. The first question is, since the vast amount of spending is in five areas, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Defense and interest on the debt, where does Paul suggest cutting spending?

On social issues, such as abortion, the libertarian view should be that the government shouldn't be regulating personal choice of woman. But that goes against conservative voter dogma that is decidingly anti-abortion.
 
haymarket said:
Rand Paul claims to be both. It is NOT me who is extreme for simply noticing that reality.

Just 24 hours into his campaign he has already taken on as the enemy the one group you need on your side - or at least not against you.

On first official day on the trail, Rand Paul turns in a prickly performance - The Washington Post

Kelly Grills Rand Paul on ‘Thin-Skinned’ Charge, But Tells Chuck Todd to ‘Butt Out’ | Mediaite

The man seems tone deaf to the realities of politics.
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From my observations this week, I don't believe that Fox News is going to be a cheerleader for Rand Paul.

Karl Rove was less than fair. Krauthammer called Rand Paul's foreign policy left of Obama's which is over the top. Brit Hume did a commentary on Special Report and pretty much dissed Rubio, Paul, Walker, and Cruz. He should have done his schpill in a "Bush for President" teeshirt.

Megyn Kelly had Paul on last night and grilled Paul over his interviews with female anchors where he refused to let them mold the interview on less than accurate opinions. Paul could have responded better in those interviews. Chuck Todd accused Paul of being sexist. Kelly told Todd to butt out and basically called Todd's remarks sexist as they implied that females in the business can't handle their own.

Paul is going to have to prove himself and he has 16 months to do that. But from what I have viewed so far is the Washington establishment doesn't care for him. I'm not sure that is a bad thing. During the last election, Krauthammer, Hume, Rove, Barone, and others used their poison pen opinion pieces against any other candidate running against Romney.
 
ARealConservative said:
I don't know if you are truly this ignorant, or are carrying this lie as a way to hope you hold on for a win

2016 Presidential Swing State Polls Poll - April 9, 2015 - Paul Blooms As Clinton Wilts I | Quinnipiac University Connecticut
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It is quite disrespectful to debate that those that disagree with you are ignorant. The fact is, most voters are moderates and the more the GOP tacks to the right, the fewer votes they are likely to get.

To point to a poll this early is worthless. Most voters don't know who Rand Paul is.
 
MTAtech said:
It is quite disrespectful to debate that those that disagree with you are ignorant. The fact is, most voters are moderates and the more the GOP tacks to the right, the fewer votes they are likely to get.

To point to a poll this early is worthless. Most voters don't know who Rand Paul is.
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so, are you saying the key to the election is independents?
 
ARealConservative said:
the media is playing its hand too soon, and it is too obvious. Rand appreciated it, and likely got a nice bump in the primary polls yesterday. the more the liberal media dog him, the less the GOP can paint him as an outsider.

the war on women angle is going to be played to the hilt, and women in the media will do everything they can to carry Hitlery's water. going to be interesting!
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Have you ever heard the advice about not going to war with people who buy ink by the barrel? Apparently Paul is ignorant of it.
 
haymarket said:
Have you ever heard the advice about not going to war with people who buy ink by the barrel? Apparently Paul is ignorant of it.
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you need to check your premise.

it isn't like you have an open mind here. you hate the man, and his policies. The today show anchor clearly did as well, and it was very obvious

my rock radio station discussed it this morning, and they have a liberal bent, but they laughed at her unprofessionalism, and felt Rand Paul did very well in the exchange.
 
OrphanSlug said:
The former, and it is pretty obvious when you get down to it. The biggest problem Rand Paul has is trying to appeal to Libertarians and Independents while appealing to the Republican base, and he will need the latter just to get out of the primary and he will need them all to win in a general election.
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ehhh...i might be inclined to agree but, it seems his amazing ability to burn so many bridges with establishment republicans, i'm inclined to see the latter as more likely.
 
haymarket said:
Rand Paul claims to be both. It is NOT me who is extreme for simply noticing that reality.

Just 24 hours into his campaign he has already taken on as the enemy the one group you need on your side - or at least not against you.

On first official day on the trail, Rand Paul turns in a prickly performance - The Washington Post

Kelly Grills Rand Paul on ‘Thin-Skinned’ Charge, But Tells Chuck Todd to ‘Butt Out’ | Mediaite

The man seems tone deaf to the realities of politics.
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you are lying.. you didn't "simply notice" anything... you delcared him to be an enemy of the people.

I don't care about him not kissing journalist ass...as a Republican, there's a large swath of media thats already against him... he'll hvae to fight through that no matter what.
 
ARealConservative said:
freedom from discrimination doesn't exist, and it never will
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And death comes to everyone and it always will...so should we stop trying to live longer? Just because a final goal can't be reached, does that mean that we shouldn't even try to get as close to that goal as we can?

Does your point mean that we shouldn't fight to end discrimination? Or are you saying that because discrimination will always be there at least to some extent, we should stop trying to fight it and allow everyone to discriminate against others for whatever reason they want to?
 
Glen Contrarian said:
And death comes to everyone and it always will...so should we stop trying to live longer? Just because a final goal can't be reached, does that mean that we shouldn't even try to get as close to that goal as we can?

Does your point mean that we shouldn't fight to end discrimination? Or are you saying that because discrimination will always be there at least to some extent, we should stop trying to fight it and allow everyone to discriminate against others for whatever reason they want to?
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I don't want to live in a world where I can't discriminate.

I like women. I don't want to be told I can't discriminate and have to date men too.
 
Thrilla said:
yes... some of those exact things....though they are even more restrictive about war than progressives are.

now reconcile that with your opinion that libertarians are "idiots" and an "enemy of the american people"...or explain why you have such a negative and hateful opinion of people whom actually see eye to eye with you on such issues.
... this should be interesting reading.
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Please show me where I said that libertarians are idiots. Libertarianism is indeed idiotic...but that doesn't mean that its adherents are idiots, just as Mormonism is IMO idiotic, but that doesn't mean its adherents are idiots.

AND please show me where I said that libertarians are "enemies of the american people". Either you got me mixed up with someone else, or you're making crap up.

In other words, you really should strive to be a bit more careful to make sure that your posts are as accurate as you think they should be.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Please show me where I said that libertarians are idiots. Libertarianism is indeed idiotic...but that doesn't mean that its adherents are idiots, just as Mormonism is IMO idiotic, but that doesn't mean its adherents are idiots.

AND please show me where I said that libertarians are "enemies of the american people". Either you got me mixed up with someone else, or you're making crap up.

In other words, you really should strive to be a bit more careful to make sure that your posts are as accurate as you think they should be.
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aww.. look at this cute little dance you're doing....:lol:

you didn't say they were enemies.. Haymarket did.... you did, however, like his post in which he did so, which indicates approval..... if you disagree with his comment on that, maybe you can try to reconcile liking his post with this "disagreement".

dance all you like, i'll still be here to call you on your bull****.. and you'll be here to backpedal when I do.
 
ARealConservative said:
you need to check your premise.

it isn't like you have an open mind here. you hate the man, and his policies. The today show anchor clearly did as well, and it was very obvious

my rock radio station discussed it this morning, and they have a liberal bent, but they laughed at her unprofessionalism, and felt Rand Paul did very well in the exchange.
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You miss the point. If a candidate makes an enemy of the press, it does not matter if you claim to win one here and there along the way. In the end, you will pay ten times over in negative coverage.
 
Thrilla said:
you are lying.. you didn't "simply notice" anything... you delcared him to be an enemy of the people.

I don't care about him not kissing journalist ass...as a Republican, there's a large swath of media thats already against him... he'll hvae to fight through that no matter what.
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Yes - I despise the man and his phony philosophy.... but that is not the point.

and I dearly hope that your fellow Republicans reward his hostile attitude towards the press with the 2016 GOP presidential nomination. That would make me very very happy.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Stay on the topic and stop with the personal attacks. Thread-bans and infractions will ensue if you choose to ignore this one.
 
haymarket said:
You miss the point. If a candidate makes an enemy of the press, it does not matter if you claim to win one here and there along the way. In the end, you will pay ten times over in negative coverage.
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your premise is the public watched that and came away thinking less of Rand Paul. I say you need to check your premise, because I don't think that is how the public viewed the exchange.


I think most will realize the journalist was a hack. she started the interview with a series of loaded questions. Someone that listens to that interview with an open mind would find her behavior reprehensible.
 
haymarket said:
Yes - I despise the man and his phony philosophy.... but that is not the point.

and I dearly hope that your fellow Republicans reward his hostile attitude towards the press with the 2016 GOP presidential nomination. That would make me very very happy.
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there is no sense in despising him, or his philosophy... none whatsoever.

my "fellow Republicans"?... how does that work when i'm not a Republican?

I don't care if he gets the GOP nod or not...he doesn't get my vote regardless.... there are no Dems or Reps in the hunt whom have earned my vote.
 
ARealConservative said:
your premise is the public watched that and came away thinking less of Rand Paul. I say you need to check your premise, because I don't think that is how the public viewed the exchange.


I think most will realize the journalist was a hack. she started the interview with a series of loaded questions. Someone that listens to that interview with an open mind would find her behavior reprehensible.
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nope - that is not my premise at all. My premise is that it is extremely pathetic when just 24 hours into a presidential campaign the candidate is already sparring with the press to the extent that it is a national story.
 
Thrilla said:
there is no sense in despising him, or his philosophy... none whatsoever.
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It makes perfect sense since I love this nation and its people and do not want to see terrible harm come to them.
 
haymarket said:
nope - that is not my premise at all. My premise is that it is extremely pathetic when just 24 hours into a presidential campaign the candidate is already sparring with the press to the extent that it is a national story.
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24 hours or 24 days, her behavior was reprehensible.

it is extremly pathetic that she carried herself the way she did. I hope she learned her lesson, but if not, Rand will gladly take the exposure for putting the hack in her place again.
 
ARealConservative said:
24 hours or 24 days, her behavior was reprehensible.

it is extremly pathetic that she carried herself the way she did. I hope she learned her lesson, but if not, Rand will gladly take the exposure for putting the hack in her place again.
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You seem to be obsessing about the bark on one single tree instead of realizing the importance of the forest.
 
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