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The End of Libertarianism

Geoist

Geoist

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Libertarian Kevin Carson recently wrote a piece on how the marriage between what he calls "new libertarians" and the "old guard" (which includes paleocons like Lew Rockwell, Hans Hermann-Hoppe, Walter Block, Gary North, etc.) Considering the borderline (if not blatant) racist and sexist history of these men, they need to be isolated from libertarianism as much as possible. Here are just a few of their past comments:

Hoppe: “There can be no tolerance toward those habitually promoting lifestyles incompatible with this goal. They — the advocates of alternative, non-family-centered lifestyles such as, for instance, individual hedonism, parasitism, nature-environment worship, homosexuality, or communism — will have to be physically removed from society, too, if one is to maintain a libertarian order.”


Walter Block: “Feminists and gays aren’t libertarians.”
*Block has also explained away productivity differences between blacks and whites being due to "lower black IQs."


Carson also attacks some of the horrible analogies proposed by many right libertarians who try to compare things like paying taxes to slavery. With comments like that, libertarians can expect to always be on the fringe of politics.

Center for a Stateless Society » The End of Libertarians
 
It has been shown that blacks do have lower IQ's overall to that of other races. We don't know the causes of that exactly, but it is a fact their IQ's are lower. It is also true that someones IQ affects their economic value and thus their productivity.
 
Btw, the actual quote by Block:

"Most feminists are not libertarians, and neither are most gays,”

That statement is entirely factual and if it offends you then perhaps you should take it up with yourself.
 
Geoist said:
Carson also attacks some of the horrible analogies proposed by many right libertarians who try to compare things like paying taxes to slavery. With comments like that, libertarians can expect to always be on the fringe of politics.
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Their policies are on the fringes of politics, why are you surprised their rhetoric lands there as well. Thats not a coincidence
 
Hoppe: “There can be no tolerance toward those habitually promoting lifestyles incompatible with this goal. They — the advocates of alternative, non-family-centered lifestyles such as, for instance, individual hedonism, parasitism, nature-environment worship, homosexuality, or communism — will have to be physically removed from society, too, if one is to maintain a libertarian order.”

He wasn't saying this would be the standard set across libertarian society, but was instead talking about a community whose residents have decided to use their rights to set standards of conduct inside of their community.
 
Henrin said:
It has been shown that blacks do have lower IQ's overall to that of other races. We don't know the causes of that exactly, but it is a fact their IQ's are lower. It is also true that someones IQ affects their economic value and thus their productivity.
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It is an unfair world full of hard truths.
 
joG said:
It is an unfair world full of hard truths.
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Sadly, it is. Where libertarians sometimes find themselves in hot water is when some troll like the guy that wrote the article misquotes them or drops context to make it seem like they said something they didn't.
 
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Henrin said:
Sadly, it is. Where libertarians sometimes find themselves in hot water is when some troll like the guy that wrote the article misquotes them or drops context to make it seem like they said something they didn't.
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That is always a neat trick and well in keeping with the troll race.
 
It should also be noted that after Block made the comment about MOST feminists and gays he then defended the right of women to be armed so they can defend themselves against rapists and the Stonewall riots by saying they were acting in self defense. His comment was hardly sexist or homophobic, but was in fact in support of their rights and factual about the beliefs of MOST feminists and gays.
 
Henrin said:
Sadly, it is. Where libertarians sometimes find themselves in hot water is when some troll like the guy that wrote the article misquotes them or drops context to make it seem like they said something they didn't.
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Misquotes and dropped context, we're talking fox news now.
 
Henrin said:
Sadly, it is. Where libertarians sometimes find themselves in hot water is when some troll like the guy that wrote the article misquotes them or drops context to make it seem like they said something they didn't.
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Amen and amen. And that kind of thing always raises a red flag in my naturally suspicious nature. Is this guy really a libertarian? Or is he masquerading as one in order to discredit libertarianism? Make it appear as some kind of racist, sexist, homophobic, extremism so that will be the perception of people identifying with real libertarianism that is none of those things?
 
Henrin said:
It has been shown that blacks do have lower IQ's overall to that of other races. We don't know the causes of that exactly, but it is a fact their IQ's are lower. It is also true that someones IQ affects their economic value and thus their productivity.
Click to expand...
how and WHO has shown this wonderful fact ?
 
Henrin said:
It has been shown that blacks do have lower IQ's overall to that of other races. We don't know the causes of that exactly, but it is a fact their IQ's are lower. It is also true that someones IQ affects their economic value and thus their productivity.
Click to expand...

it has been shown that certain races do better/worse on the tests used to measure IQ. Asians score much higher then Caucasians on such tests.
 
ARealConservative said:
it has been shown that certain races do better/worse on the tests used to measure IQ. Asians score much higher then Caucasians on such tests.
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I never said otherwise.
 
Henrin said:
IQ tests.
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The problem with using standardized IQ tests to evaluate the intelligence of demographic groups is that such tests do not take into account experience, culture, and training. Those with experience with trick questions and unexpected factors in picture and worded statements; i.e. "Is there a 4th of July in England?" will be much more likely to spot the intended twist in a statement. Likewise those accustomed to doing trivia quizzes and solving little puzzles are almost always going to score higher on an IQ test based on those kinds of things - sequences, et al - than will somebody not accustomed to those kinds of tests. On some types of IQ tests I personally will score very average or unremarkable and on some I will score at genius level. And I can assure everybody I am no genius. :)
 
Medusa said:
are those tests reliable ? are they also valid ?
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Some people consider them valid and reliable and some don't. As for me, I don't consider them very valid at all or for that matter reliable. Still, in terms of what we know the comment made by Block was not wrong. Blacks do score lower on IQ tests and IQ does have a correlation with economic success and productivity.
 
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Henrin said:
Some people consider them valid and reliable and some don't. As for me, I don't consider them very valid at all or for that matter reliable. Still, in terms of what we know the comment made by Block was not wrong. Blacks do score lower on IQ tests and IQ does have correlation with economic success and productivity.
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I am not very rich ,henrin.does it make me stupidier than a black ?
 
Medusa said:
I am not very rich ,henrin.does it make me stupidier than a black ?
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You can get offended by his statement all day, but the research will still defend it regardless.
 
Henrin said:
Some people consider them valid and reliable and some don't. As for me, I don't consider them very valid at all or for that matter reliable. Still, in terms of what we know the comment made by Block was not wrong. Blacks do score lower on IQ tests and IQ does have correlation with economic success and productivity.
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And yet in real life examples, I just haven't seen that. In every single case that I have observed, black people who educate themselves and do what is necessary for economic success enjoy parity with their peers of other racial groups. Again I think using IQ to evaluate racial demographics does not take into account the difference in culture and experience of those groups.

For instance Asians will more often score higher on IQ tests than those of us of European heritage, yet in economic success and productivity, the two groups are comparable. In any college in the country, you will find more Asians than any other group at the top of the rankings and math and sciences. But in economic success and productivity, we all enjoy a great deal of parity with the Asians in the real world.

Why do Asians do so much better in math etc? Because their language and they way they do and understand numbers along with the way the human brain works gives them a substantial leg up. There is a good discussion on that here:
Why are Chinese (and other Asians) Better at Math?

All this is to say there are Asian and black and white and Hispanic et al libertarians, and NONE of us buy into racist, sexist, or homophobic concepts and IQ has nothing to do with it. Maybe common sense does. Anybody who says you have to be those things to be libertarian simply does not know what libertarianism is or is doing his/her damndest to discredit it.
 
Henrin said:
I never said otherwise.
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you stated they have a lower Intelligence quotient, but all we know is in the aggregate, races do better or worse on tests determined to measure intelligence

the tests themselves could be flawed in measuring IQ.
 
Henrin said:
Some people consider them valid and reliable and some don't. As for me, I don't consider them very valid at all or for that matter reliable.
Click to expand...

So wait, you referred to IQ tests to back up your statement "It has been shown that blacks do have lower IQ's overall to that of other races." Yet you don't consider IQ tests valid? :confused:

IQ does have a correlation with economic success and productivity.
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Perhaps to some extent. But one does not have to be a Bill Gates or Mark Cuban to be productive. My own father repeated the second grade, yet he has done fairly well for himself making $55 an hour. No, IQ does not explain the abject poverty experienced by many blacks.
 
Crovax said:
Their policies are on the fringes of politics, why are you surprised their rhetoric lands there as well. Thats not a coincidence
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One could have political views on the outlier of the political spectrum and still make rational arguments.
 
Henrin said:
Hoppe: “There can be no tolerance toward those habitually promoting lifestyles incompatible with this goal. They — the advocates of alternative, non-family-centered lifestyles such as, for instance, individual hedonism, parasitism, nature-environment worship, homosexuality, or communism — will have to be physically removed from society, too, if one is to maintain a libertarian order.”

He wasn't saying this would be the standard set across libertarian society, but was instead talking about a community whose residents have decided to use their rights to set standards of conduct inside of their community.
Click to expand...

Ah okay, much like how a king sets the standards of conduct inside his country?

How is this libertarian, again?
 
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