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Liberty as a buzzword

NeverTrump

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Despite being a buzzword used in the Constitution. Republicans and Democrats don't exactly use this word. Libertarians on the otherhand, are obsessed with this. However, it is not altogether clear what they mean by Liberty.

What is liberty?

Google's top two definitions for Liberty are:

1. the state of being free within society from oppressive restrictions imposed by authority on one's way of life, behavior, or political views.
2. the power or scope to act as one pleases.

Ok so now we know what the definition of liberty is. However, as the comments from this thread are about to prove. It is a vague definition open to vast interpretations.

How would you measure liberty?
Is it The size of government, the magnitude of taxes and spending or the amount of laws on the books?

The problem with measuring liberty is that you can measure the size of the government using many, many different variables. You can measure it by spending, by debt, by employees, by agencies, by how many Americans are registered etc... So how can all of these measurements be right?

Taxes are another problem: We as a society have concluded that it is fair and reasonable to tax the population. Thus allowing the government to spend money. (Of course, it's a little bit more complicated than that.) Tax brackets are currently the only way in which we can have some type of measurement as to how "fair" the system treats people and how much liberty they can get. So without those measurements, how would we measure liberty? NOTE: This is probably the easiest and most efficient way to measure liberty. Too bad, it's so complicated and requires tons of laws in order to enforce...

Laws: The Government will never stop writing laws. States will never stop writing laws. People need some type of structure. So there will always be an unending amount of laws being written. Is that really bad news for the liberty-seekers?

It also depends on whose liberty you are focusing on: business owners versus employees and/or consumers, men vs. women, whites vs. blacks, native-born Americans vs. immigrants. How many members of the naive liberty-seekers club have personally been hurt or abused by the Federal Government and has been prevented from pursing happiness and an otherwise fulfilled life? How many of your personal experiences was in fact caused by yourself or other factors outside the scope of the government?

So in other words, like a lot of other political topics. Liberty is and always has been, a buzzword. A word warped by individual experiences and interpreted so.
 
Despite being a buzzword used in the Constitution. Republicans and Democrats don't exactly use this word. Libertarians on the otherhand, are obsessed with this. However, it is not altogether clear what they mean by Liberty.

What is liberty?

Google's top two definitions for Liberty are:

1. the state of being free within society from oppressive restrictions imposed by authority on one's way of life, behavior, or political views.
2. the power or scope to act as one pleases.

Ok so now we know what the definition of liberty is. However, as the comments from this thread are about to prove. It is a vague definition open to vast interpretations.

How would you measure liberty?
Is it The size of government, the magnitude of taxes and spending or the amount of laws on the books?

The problem with measuring liberty is that you can measure the size of the government using many, many different variables. You can measure it by spending, by debt, by employees, by agencies, by how many Americans are registered etc... So how can all of these measurements be right?

Taxes are another problem: We as a society have concluded that it is fair and reasonable to tax the population. Thus allowing the government to spend money. (Of course, it's a little bit more complicated than that.) Tax brackets are currently the only way in which we can have some type of measurement as to how "fair" the system treats people and how much liberty they can get. So without those measurements, how would we measure liberty? NOTE: This is probably the easiest and most efficient way to measure liberty. Too bad, it's so complicated and requires tons of laws in order to enforce...

Laws: The Government will never stop writing laws. States will never stop writing laws. People need some type of structure. So there will always be an unending amount of laws being written. Is that really bad news for the liberty-seekers?

It also depends on whose liberty you are focusing on: business owners versus employees and/or consumers, men vs. women, whites vs. blacks, native-born Americans vs. immigrants. How many members of the naive liberty-seekers club have personally been hurt or abused by the Federal Government and has been prevented from pursing happiness and an otherwise fulfilled life? How many of your personal experiences was in fact caused by yourself or other factors outside the scope of the government?

So in other words, like a lot of other political topics. Liberty is and always has been, a buzzword. A word warped by individual experiences and interpreted so.

Don't worry about liberty. Just leave people alone unless they harm somebody.
 
Lets start with your idea that it is group A v. group B and work from there. Tell me why you think in such terms?
 
It also depends on whose liberty you are focusing on: business owners versus employees and/or consumers, men vs. women, whites vs. blacks, native-born Americans vs. immigrants.

No ones liberty comes at the expense of another's.
 
Also, you seem to be using the word fair without defining it in a post about liberty needing to be defined. Can you please define the word fair.
 
Lets start with your idea that it is group A v. group B and work from there. Tell me why you think in such terms?

No ones liberty comes at the expense of another's.


I guess you guys both missed the point of the thread. So let me ask you. How can someone's liberty not come at the expense of someone else's? Because I only see that happening in a world where we are all isolated from each other, but then even then we can steal each other's ideas!
 
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Also, you seem to be using the word fair without defining it in a post about liberty needing to be defined. Can you please define the word fair.

While Democrats like to use the word fair as a buzzword it seems to be a synonym for liberty these days. So is liberty then equality? What is it to you? The point is people keep spouting off about liberty when they really have no idea what liberty is.
 
Don't worry about liberty. Just leave people alone unless they harm somebody.

So if somebody gets into a fight, a physical fist fight. Should I break it up? Even though I am not involved, and the thing they were fighting about was, in my opinion stupid? I've seen many a bar fights from roommates about who's favorite sports team is better. I didn't care, they got harmed, but I didn't stop it. Do you see the logical fallacy in that entire line of thinking?

In fact, most fist fights are pretty idiotic when you look back and logically think about what the fighting was about, and in my experience they usually boil down to girls or sports...
 
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The USA has always been a great and noble experiment. And part of that effort is to create a just and livable society in which the maximum amount of freedom is exercised by individuals within that society. If a person lives on their own independent island and are totally self sufficient, then they are the sole determiners of what liberty and freedom are and how they exercise it is up to them. However, most of us do not have that luxury as we live in a society with others and have to respect the rights and legal activities of others.

Its a delicate balancing act and always has been.
 
It is a vague definition open to vast interpretations.
It's a clear and simple word. People intentionally try to blur its meaning for the sake of their own political agendas.
 
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