• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Leftwing Pathology

It's racist because it bases decisions on race.

Oxford defines racist as "having or showing the belief that a particular race is superior to another." Race-based has a much different meaning.

>>This isn't rocket science

Agreed.

>>watching you dance around the issue is enlightening.

Enlightenment is always available to those willing and able to experience it.
 
The whole point of eliminating racial prejudice and bigotry is to rid our society of racial discrimination. The practice of racial preferences simply allows it to persist.

The whole point of AA is to mitigate the effects of racial discrimination.
 
Oxford defines racist as "having or showing the belief that a particular race is superior to another." Race-based has a much different meaning.

>>This isn't rocket science

Agreed.

>>watching you dance around the issue is enlightening.

Enlightenment is always available to those willing and able to experience it.

Whites saying they need to make up for years of discrimination against Blacks by instituting a race-based policy which favors Blacks is an obvious example of one race feeling superior to the other. How much more condescending can a policy be?
 
The whole point of AA is to mitigate the effects of racial discrimination.

Not really. It's pandering to a certain element while patting yourself on the back. Something leftists do all the time.
 
an obvious example of one race feeling superior to the other.

How is that? For example, I'm not even sure which race yer saying "feels superior."

>>How much more condescending can a policy be?

By being even slightly condescending.

>>It's pandering to a certain element while patting yourself on the back. Something leftists do all the time.

Rightist nonsense. In any event, AA will continue.
 
Why should I be punished?



I spent hours doing just that last spring. I won't waste more time presenting clear evidence to someone who refuses to accept it.

The economy has continued to strengthen since then, and that trend will continue … because Democrats will continue to control the federal government. It's not at all important that you don't recognize the overwhelming improvement. The conditions exist, and they are seen and felt by the American people.

>>I guess the 2014 elections really didn't happen

They did, and the Republican-controlled Congress will continue to impede the more rapid progress that could otherwise be achieved.

>>those told you the mood of the country and the fact that Obama results have been recognized by the voters.

No, they're merely the result of a much smaller voter turnout in a non-presidential year.

I asked you to cite official data that supports your point of view and all I get are liberal talking points. Tell me exactly what Obama has done to stabilize the U.S. economy? BEA.gov, BLS.gov, and the U.S. Treasury don't show what you claim nor do the American people feel it.

BEA.gov shows govt. spending is what contributed to GDP growth and that led to nothing but a 7.6 trillion dollar debt during the first 6 years of OBama, almost as much debt as Reagan, GHW Bush, and GW Bush added combined in 20 years, BLS.gov. shows that when the recession began there were 146 million working Americans and today over 7 years later there are 147 million working Americans. I guess in the liberal world that is your definition of success. As for voter turnout, amazing isn't it how Obama now motivated his base to support his policies?

Now stop with the talking points and give us official data to support those points? Want to focus on the world? LOL, it really is a shame that authors like those how wrote the article that led to this thread nailed it as did Gruber.
 
1. How is that? For example, I'm not even sure which race yer saying "feels superior."

>>How much more condescending can a policy be?

2. By being even slightly condescending.

>>It's pandering to a certain element while patting yourself on the back. Something leftists do all the time.

3. Rightist nonsense. In any event, AA will continue.

3. Perhaps, but it's still racist.
2. A policy that states blacks cannot advance without the help of whites with good intentions is condescending
1. Whites insisting that Blacks need help based on racial preferences to get into schools, land jobs or advance in the military is most definitely saying they cannot do it on their own. That is a clear indication that whites feel superior to blacks. That liberals hide their racism behind the smokescreen of past indignities and policies is irrelevant.
 
Why should I be punished?



I spent hours doing just that last spring. I won't waste more time presenting clear evidence to someone who refuses to accept it.

The economy has continued to strengthen since then, and that trend will continue … because Democrats will continue to control the federal government. It's not at all important that you don't recognize the overwhelming improvement. The conditions exist, and they are seen and felt by the American people.

>>I guess the 2014 elections really didn't happen

They did, and the Republican-controlled Congress will continue to impede the more rapid progress that could otherwise be achieved.

>>those told you the mood of the country and the fact that Obama results have been recognized by the voters.

No, they're merely the result of a much smaller voter turnout in a non-presidential year.

I asked you to cite official data that supports your point of view and all I get are liberal talking points. Tell me exactly what Obama has done to stabilize the U.S. economy? BEA.gov, BLS.gov, and the U.S. Treasury don't show what you claim nor do the American people feel it.

BEA.gov shows govt. spending is what contributed to GDP growth and that led to nothing but a 7.6 trillion dollar debt during the first 6 years of OBama, almost as much debt as Reagan, GHW Bush, and GW Bush added combined in 20 years, BLS.gov. shows that when the recession began there were 146 million working Americans and today over 7 years later there are 147 million working Americans. I guess in the liberal world that is your definition of success. As for voter turnout, amazing isn't it how Obama now motivated his base to support his policies?

Now stop with the talking points and give us official data to support those points? Want to focus on the world? LOL, it really is a shame that authors like those how wrote the article that led to this thread nailed it as did Gruber.
 
I asked you to cite official data that supports your point of view and all I get are liberal talking points. Tell me exactly what Obama has done to stabilize the U.S. economy? BEA.gov, BLS.gov, and the U.S. Treasury don't show what you claim nor do the American people feel it.

BEA.gov shows govt. spending is what contributed to GDP growth and that led to nothing but a 7.6 trillion dollar debt during the first 6 years of OBama, almost as much debt as Reagan, GHW Bush, and GW Bush added combined in 20 years, BLS.gov. shows that when the recession began there were 146 million working Americans and today over 7 years later there are 147 million working Americans. I guess in the liberal world that is your definition of success. As for voter turnout, amazing isn't it how Obama now motivated his base to support his policies?

Now stop with the talking points and give us official data to support those points? Want to focus on the world? LOL, it really is a shame that authors like those how wrote the article that led to this thread nailed it as did Gruber.

Translation: I only care about debt when (D).
 
Is he using BLS.gov to claim the sky is falling still?
 
Translation: I only care about debt when (D).

The question is why don't you are about debt regardless of the candidate. Apparently debt to GDP of over 100% doesn't matter to you and as pointed out Obama has added almost as much debt in 6 years as Reagan, GHW Bush, and GW Bush did in 20. Guess you have a problem understanding that
 
Is he using BLS.gov to claim the sky is falling still?

BLS.gov shows working Americans and there are 147 million working today vs. 146 million working when the Recession began. Where are those millions of jobs created by Obama?
 
The question is why don't you are about debt regardless of the candidate. Apparently debt to GDP of over 100% doesn't matter to you and as pointed out Obama has added almost as much debt in 6 years as Reagan, GHW Bush, and GW Bush did in 20. Guess you have a problem understanding that

Translation: Debt is bad when (D)
 
So because they are what you consider an extreme organization what they post should not be studied or dissected? Tell me exactly what it is in the article that is wrong? I thought there analysis of liberalism was right on as I have yet to meet a happy liberal or someone who wasn't consumed by jealousy of what someone else has.

I actually do know some happy liberals. I have some 'happy liberal' friends and relatives in real life and have met a few on line. They mostly do have in common: a) a strong religious faith and b) a sense of tolerance and willingness to love others despite their 'errant ideology', etc.

The other traits they almost invariably have in common are a very strong sense of self-righteousness in their political and social views and an almost universal inability to express their convictions about anything without criticizing or tearing somebody or something else down.

There are exceptions. Prior to his retirement, I read William Raspberry faithfully as I did Molly Ivans before her death. I still read Michael Kinsley, Camille Paglia, and even Maureen Dowd has some brilliant moments of insight. There are a very few others. All are thinking liberals who have the ability to put things in perspective and be honest about the subject. They make me think and enlarge my perspectives on my own convictions. And they are a very, very rare breed indeed. Alas, most don't venture onto message boards.
 
Translation: Debt is bad when (D)

Debt that is 50% of GDP isn't bad when it generates 17 million new jobs, doubles the GDP, and generates a 62% increase in FIT. Results matter to everyone but a liberal so yes, debt doesn't matter as much when it is that low of a percentage of GDP.
 
Debt that is 50% of GDP isn't bad when it generates 17 million new jobs, doubles the GDP, and generates a 62% increase in FIT. Results matter to everyone but a liberal so yes, debt doesn't matter as much when it is that low of a percentage of GDP.

Translation: Debt is bad when (D)
 
It's racist because it bases decisions on race. This isn't rocket science, but watching you dance around the issue is enlightening.

Again, it's your made up definition of "racist" that happens to ignore history, the purpose of the programs, and what made them arguably necessary.

Let's put it another way that you can dutifully ignore. Imagine two white children. One goes to a modern school in the wealthy suburbs, has highly paid, well trained teachers, access to modern technology, state of the art science labs, computer equipment, well stocked library, current textbooks and all that comes with well funded education.

The other white child attends a completely inadequately funded school in the mountains that has none of that - no science labs at all, inadequately trained teachers (often recent grads effectively getting trained but without adequate supervision), outdated textbooks, no access to computers, and all the rest.

Clearly the state has conferred massive advantages to the first child - he's benefited from a lifetime of affirmative action for the wealthy. If admissions to college acknowledge that and provide a preference to poor kids, those policies are doing nothing more than giving the second child a fighting chance to overcome what was till then a lifetime of effective discrimination against him or her.

Race was a shorthand for identifying those applicants who had been disadvantaged by competing with other children who had benefited from a lifetime of affirmative action in favor of whites. The biggest problem is those preferences were imperfect, flawed, in that they didn't distinguish between blacks with access to a good education, or whites who also attended woefully underfunded schools and were burdened by the same societal disadvantages.

Still doesn't make affirmative action programs "racist" except in your own made up world where words mean what you say they mean.
 
I agree, preferences should be based on need not race. The whole point of eliminating racial prejudice and bigotry is to rid our society of racial discrimination. The practice of racial preferences simply allows it to persist.

That's fine and I agree, but we're talking about the merits of policy, not whether those who support or supported affirmative action were racist. To embrace that definition, you really have to ignore the CENTURIES of systematic, state sponsored discrimination against blacks, and pretend that the day those officially discriminatory practices stopped, blacks should have been able to "compete" on anything like a level playing field.
 
it's still racist.

As others here have noted, only when racist is dramatically redefined.

>>A policy that states blacks cannot advance without the help of whites … Whites insisting that Blacks need help based on racial preferences … That is a clear indication that whites feel superior to blacks.

I'm a strong supporter of AA, and yet it's "clear" to me that many whites aren't "superior" to anybody.

Opponents of AA like to claim that Martin King's views on race are inconsistent with race-based policies. Check out Martin Luther King Jr. explicitly supported what's now called affirmative action: Jarvis DeBerry, The Times-Picayune, April 28, 2014.



That liberals hide their racism behind the smokescreen of past indignities and policies is irrelevant.
 
Translation: Debt is bad when (D)

It really is hard explaining ROI to someone who doesn't seem to have a clue. If I told you that we would have a 1.7 trillion dollar debt to generate 17 million new jobs, double GDP, and create a peace dividend, wonder what you would say?

Wonder what you would say if it would take over 1 trillion dollars to pay for 9/11 and if you would authorize that expense for that is part of the Bush deficit and debt

Wonder what you would say if you knew that Barack Obama signed the 2009 budget and 9 of the 12 authorization bills for spending in 2009 and then blamed Bush for the 2009 deficit?
 
Again, it's your made up definition of "racist" that happens to ignore history, the purpose of the programs, and what made them arguably necessary.

Let's put it another way that you can dutifully ignore. Imagine two white children. One goes to a modern school in the wealthy suburbs, has highly paid, well trained teachers, access to modern technology, state of the art science labs, computer equipment, well stocked library, current textbooks and all that comes with well funded education.

The other white child attends a completely inadequately funded school in the mountains that has none of that - no science labs at all, inadequately trained teachers (often recent grads effectively getting trained but without adequate supervision), outdated textbooks, no access to computers, and all the rest.

Clearly the state has conferred massive advantages to the first child - he's benefited from a lifetime of affirmative action for the wealthy. If admissions to college acknowledge that and provide a preference to poor kids, those policies are doing nothing more than giving the second child a fighting chance to overcome what was till then a lifetime of effective discrimination against him or her.

Race was a shorthand for identifying those applicants who had been disadvantaged by competing with other children who had benefited from a lifetime of affirmative action in favor of whites. The biggest problem is those preferences were imperfect, flawed, in that they didn't distinguish between blacks with access to a good education, or whites who also attended woefully underfunded schools and were burdened by the same societal disadvantages.

Still doesn't make affirmative action programs "racist" except in your own made up world where words mean what you say they mean.
[emphasis added by bubba]

using race as a basis of eligibility for affirmative action programs causes the program to be poorly constructed
instead of using race, economic standing should be the criterion used to identify those eligible for help to lift those in poverty into a better economic condition
 
Again, it's your made up definition of "racist" that happens to ignore history, the purpose of the programs, and what made them arguably necessary.

Let's put it another way that you can dutifully ignore. Imagine two white children. One goes to a modern school in the wealthy suburbs, has highly paid, well trained teachers, access to modern technology, state of the art science labs, computer equipment, well stocked library, current textbooks and all that comes with well funded education.

The other white child attends a completely inadequately funded school in the mountains that has none of that - no science labs at all, inadequately trained teachers (often recent grads effectively getting trained but without adequate supervision), outdated textbooks, no access to computers, and all the rest.

Clearly the state has conferred massive advantages to the first child - he's benefited from a lifetime of affirmative action for the wealthy. If admissions to college acknowledge that and provide a preference to poor kids, those policies are doing nothing more than giving the second child a fighting chance to overcome what was till then a lifetime of effective discrimination against him or her.

Race was a shorthand for identifying those applicants who had been disadvantaged by competing with other children who had benefited from a lifetime of affirmative action in favor of whites. The biggest problem is those preferences were imperfect, flawed, in that they didn't distinguish between blacks with access to a good education, or whites who also attended woefully underfunded schools and were burdened by the same societal disadvantages.

Still doesn't make affirmative action programs "racist" except in your own made up world where words mean what you say they mean.

Liberal double-talk. More proof of the pathology mentioned in the op. Race based preferences are racist, no matter how noble the intentions because it clearly shows that condescending liberal whites believe Blacks cannot make it into those positions without the help of superior whites.
 
Whites saying they need to make up for years of discrimination against Blacks by instituting a race-based policy which favors Blacks is an obvious example of one race feeling superior to the other. How much more condescending can a policy be?

BS, it's an acknowledgment of historical state sponsored discrimination against blacks and an effort to alleviate them, although imperfectly and inadequately.

The ideal promise of our society is that every person has an equal opportunity to succeed. Well, if the state spends centuries making sure that a particular race is loaded with burdens that make it impossible for most to succeed, policies that attempt to overcome that are not condescending - they reflect life as it is, reality, and the long history of overt STATE discrimination against blacks.

When you acknowledge need based preferences, you're agreeing with the concept of affirmative action, the legitimate role is serves, just not how the policy was admittedly imperfectly implemented.
 
As others here have noted, only when racist is dramatically redefined.

>>A policy that states blacks cannot advance without the help of whites … Whites insisting that Blacks need help based on racial preferences … That is a clear indication that whites feel superior to blacks.

I'm a strong supporter of AA, and yet it's "clear" to me that many whites aren't "superior" to anybody.

Opponents of AA like to claim that Martin King's views on race are inconsistent with race-based policies. Check out Martin Luther King Jr. explicitly supported what's now called affirmative action: Jarvis DeBerry, The Times-Picayune, April 28, 2014.



That liberals hide their racism behind the smokescreen of past indignities and policies is irrelevant.

You can put all the lipstick on that pig you wish, but the bottom line is that race based preferences are racist.
 
BS, it's an acknowledgment of historical state sponsored discrimination against blacks and an effort to alleviate them, although imperfectly and inadequately.

The ideal promise of our society is that every person has an equal opportunity to succeed. Well, if the state spends centuries making sure that a particular race is loaded with burdens that make it impossible for most to succeed, policies that attempt to overcome that are not condescending - they reflect life as it is, reality, and the long history of overt STATE discrimination against blacks.

When you acknowledge need based preferences, you're agreeing with the concept of affirmative action, the legitimate role is serves, just not how the policy was admittedly imperfectly implemented.

This is 2015...maintaining race based preferences 50 years after Jim Crow is incredibly racist. It proves that liberals believe Blacks cannot overcome hurdles on their own--not even after 50 years have passed.
 
Back
Top Bottom