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Welfare, the ACA, higher minimum wage all come with a cost.

I never said I pay 40% Wife and I make 80k a year and pay at that level. Taxes are are nesseccary evil.

So you file jointly and pay 40% of your 80K despite being in a 25% tax bracket for just the last 8K of your income?
2013 Tax Brackets | Tax Foundation

**** I should be the one complaining I make 55K a year as a single man and I'm paying the same percentage as you guys, although not this year because I was deployed and rode the taxpayer gravy train to the land of free money and not last year because I wasn't making 55K last year.
 
I stopped reading when you said half your paycheck was taken in taxes. Frankly I don't believe you in the slightest, perhaps you wouldn't mind posting a copy of your W2?

Looking for an excuse to ignore every argument I make? Hmmm? Well, I didn't think you'd read it anyway. That's why I kept it short and sweet, so I wouldn't waste my time typing out an argument you'd ignore anyway.

No I'm not taking a picture of my W2, that's personal information and I'm not divulging it...especially to someone like you. I don't need to prove anything. Either take my word for it, or don't. I really don't care. I will, however, leave a link for you to check out along with an urge for you to look around and notice just how much of our money is actually taken from us.

Government Will Take Almost Half Your Paycheck in 2013 | The Foundry: Conservative Policy News from The Heritage Foundation
 
No actually I make pretty good money. I think we should all contribute to society in some form, unless we revert to the hunter/trapper socitey pretending there is some way no one has to pay taxes is silly. So now that we agree we all need to pay something the really problem becomes to what degree.
Businesses contribute by providing jobs, products and investments. You seem to think they owe some greater debt. Why? Class wafare and income envy.
 
Taxes are a necessary function of government which cannot exist without them, and I don't believe your claim either I'd love to see your W-2 as well

Assuming that one makes under the FICA tax cutoff (and does not get EITC) then one pays at least 15.3% of their gross income in federal taxes. Many pay federal income tax as well so even if that is about 15% then one is at 30% taxation level with federal "payroll" taxes alone. Add in federal excise, state and local taxes and it is easy to pay 40% or more in total taxation.
 
Looking for an excuse to ignore every argument I make? Hmmm? Well, I didn't think you'd read it anyway. That's why I kept it short and sweet, so I wouldn't waste my time typing out an argument you'd ignore anyway.

No I'm not taking a picture of my W2, that's personal information and I'm not divulging it...especially to someone like you. I don't need to prove anything. Either take my word for it, or don't. I really don't care. I will, however, leave a link for you to check out along with an urge for you to look around and notice just how much of our money is actually taken from us.

Government Will Take Almost Half Your Paycheck in 2013 | The Foundry: Conservative Policy News from The Heritage Foundation

I don't believe you, its not personal I just don't trust libertarians
 
I don't believe you, its not personal I just don't trust libertarians

Wow, just wow. You don't trust me because of a false generalization you made about an arbitrary political label. Must be nice to be ignorant like that...
 
So you file jointly and pay 40% of your 80K despite being in a 25% tax bracket for just the last 8K of your income?
2013 Tax Brackets | Tax Foundation

**** I should be the one complaining I make 55K a year as a single man and I'm paying the same percentage as you guys, although not this year because I was deployed and rode the taxpayer gravy train to the land of free money and not last year because I wasn't making 55K last year.
Are you intentionally being dense? "I never claim I was paying 40% " I was making a point about rich folks who do pay 40. Continue to deflect wo.
 
No actually I make pretty good money. I think we should all contribute to society in some form, unless we revert to the hunter/trapper socitey pretending there is some way no one has to pay taxes is silly. So now that we agree we all need to pay something the really problem becomes to what degree.

That something should cover normal federal expenses yet, with few exceptions, the federal gov't is designed (via its "budget") to spend more than it dare take via direct taxation.
 
No actually I make pretty good money. I think we should all contribute to society in some form, unless we revert to the hunter/trapper socitey pretending there is some way no one has to pay taxes is silly. So now that we agree we all need to pay something the really problem becomes to what degree.
So you're all for pushing your views on others through force. Nice to know you favor forcing your morality through goverment power on society.
 
Well without looking at people's W-2s and 1040s there's no way to verify what anyone does or doesn't pay on their taxes since there's so many rules, loopholes, deductions, etc. But I know that telekat is not paying 50% tax on his straight income.

Since we're sharing stories I paid an effective tax rate of 9.32% Federal taxes and 0% state income taxes even while being a resident of cali for 2012.

Bitchin
 
So you're all for pushing your views on others through force. Nice to know you favor forcing your morality through goverment power on society.

Welcome to life where sometimes to function in an orderly society you have to do things you don't want to.
 
Welcome to life where sometimes to function in an orderly society you have to do things you don't want to.

So you support voter approved gay marriage bans. Sweet.
 
What a joke. No, I say we revert to the early settlers time and trap furs and skin bears and not pay no stinkin taxes. :)
So you're all for pushing your views on others through force. Nice to know you favor forcing your morality through goverment power on society.
 
Arrogance? really? What should a buisness have to contribute to our socitety? Is it ever appropriate to cut into the profit margin for some societal good?

What does the Fifth Amendment say about taking private property for public use?
 
So you're all for pushing your views on others through force. Nice to know you favor forcing your morality through goverment power on society.

you see that is the problem with this nation, people want to use force on other people who have committed no wrong.

in the libertarian world, force can only be used on a person when that person violates the rights of another person or their actions threaten the health and safety of the public at large.

constitutional law -13th--Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction
 
What a joke. No, I say we revert to the early settlers time and trap furs and skin bears and not pay no stinkin taxes. :)

Uhm. Mak, you belive that it is right to make americans pay for other americans food, medical, housing and other needs if the first group has money and the second group does not. Am I correct?
 
Do you think we should just let them starve?
Uhm. Mak, you belive that it is right to make americans pay for other americans food, medical, housing and other needs if the first group has money and the second group does not. Am I correct?
 
Do you think we should just let them starve?
question.
Why are they "starving"? Are there local charity/church groups able to meet thier needs? What about city, county, state resources? Is there a true threat of starvation? What lead to this condition they find themselves in?

Or do those questions not matter to you?
 
Of course, and I dont like people who can work getting any sort of welfare. The problem with the liberterians is the absolute nature of their philosophy. We are a very rich country and people should not be starving in the street or die from a lack of antibiotics or basic healtcare. They just should not. I think starvation is rare in this cournty but people die from lack of healthcare every day. If you want to live in a civilized country there are going to be taxes. It is just that simple.
question.
Why are they "starving"? Are there local charity/church groups able to meet thier needs? What about city, county, state resources? Is there a true threat of starvation? What lead to this condition they find themselves in?

Or do those questions not matter to you?
 
Why can't people just provide all this "help" for the poor voluntarily? Why do we have to mandate it by law?

To quote P.J O'Rourke:

"There is no virtue in compulsory government charity, and there is no virtue in advocating it. A politician who portrays himself as 'caring' and 'sensitive' because he wants to expand the government's charitable programs is merely saying that he's willing to do good with other people's money. Well, who isn't? And a voter who takes pride in supporting such programs is telling us that he'll do good with his own money--if a gun is held to his head."

Whether people act virtuously isn't as important as making sure that people get their basic needs met. The fact is that not enough people will act virtuously to take care of the poor sufficiently. Many who do help the poor do so with ulterior motives. In the interest of fairness and equality, it is best to have aid to the poor handled through a democratic (representational) process rather than at the whim of the rich and/or at the mercy of (often religious) charity groups (often with ulterior motives).
 
On real conservative/liberterian sites they often have threads about how much they give to charity. I have never seen that on any other site.
Whether people act virtuously isn't as important as making sure that people get their basic needs met. The fact is that not enough people will act virtuously to take care of the poor sufficiently. Many who do help the poor do so with ulterior motives. In the interest of fairness and equality, it is best to have aid to the poor handled through a democratic (representational) process rather than at the whim of the rich and/or at the mercy of (often religious) charity groups (often with ulterior motives).
 
On real conservative/liberterian sites they often have threads about how much they give to charity. I have never seen that on any other site.

Those on the right tend to put their money where their mouths are.

Those on the wrong tend to only put other people's money—but not so much their own money—where their mouths are. And then they piously boast about how “generous” and “caring” they are, while condemning the right for being “greedy”.
 
because there exists a scrooge like attitude toward the poor in todays society.

I guess, if you say so.

But various studies have shown the opposite, as in the billions Bill Gates is throwing around, Paul McCartney, and various "one percenters"

what was lost on the Obama fawning Romney hating public was the fact Obama was not far behind in the wealth department and gave a small fraction compared to Romney...as a ratio, not mere dollars.

If you have evidence that the "rich" a greedy and stingy, present it, if you are bitching about how "they" only do it for tax reasons, when was last time you donated garbage you didn't want and declined a tax receipt.
 
Do you think we should just let them starve?

Who is starving in America?

What the US pays in welfare provides an enviable living for people in third world countries. 99 weeks of unemployment is not preventing starvation. The trillions in corporate welfare to bankers with world class coke habits was not a battle against under nutrition, and the Obamaphone program likely contributed to obesity as so many lazy, fat slobs can call out for gourmet meals.
 
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