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GOP bill designed to keep secret the IDs of campaign donors

TheDemSocialist said:
Its influencing the candidate, and has the power to influence governing decisions and the candidates views.
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Voters influence the candidate.


Really?
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Just as its none of your business who I vote for its none of your business who you donate to.
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$131,500 is a lot of money, but its nickels and dimes compared to what he raised.Heck its nickels and dimes compared to what Grimes raised.

Bill Clinton campaigns in Kentucky for Democrat seeking Mitch McConnell's Senate seat | Star Tribune

Heading into 2014, the McConnell campaign bank account totaled $10.9 million while Grimes had almost $3.5 million on hand, the respective campaigns said.


So when you donate $1 million dollars to a SUPER PAC that supports x, y, or z candidate you dont expect political payback? Seriously?
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It doesn't matter if you donate a dollar or a million dollars.There should be no political payback.Its why votes are anonymous.Its so left wing hacks do not harass conservative voters for voting for a particular candidate or ballot issue and its so right wing hacks do not harass liberal voters for voting for a particular candidate or ballot issue.

I dont. I have donated to political campaigns and know many people have and you can look up their names on the FEC and not one of them nor myself have been harassed.
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Not everyone is a hack who cares who or how much money someone donated to a candidate.
 
jamesrage said:
I am for government transparency.I am however not for people being harassed because they choose to donate to a particular person or group.
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This seems to be a far right wing meme.... sure we want transparency but we have to protect the very rich against..... against ...... against what exactly? Criticism? Scorn? Ridicule. Being the butt of jokes from comedians and SNL?

What is it exactly you are trying to protect the rich from anyways?
 
haymarket said:
This seems to be a far right wing meme.... sure we want transparency but we have to protect the very rich against..... against ...... against what exactly? Criticism? Scorn? Ridicule. Being the butt of jokes from comedians and SNL?

What is it exactly you are trying to protect the rich from anyways?
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Donating to a political candidate is not a government function.So this comparison is idiotic.
 
jamesrage said:
So if some pro-life "extremists"decided to post the names of all the planned parenthood donors then you would be cool with that? My political participation is my business just as your political participation is your business.I should not have to worry about a bunch of left wing loonies harassing me because of the way I vote or donate my money and you should not have to worry about a bunch of right wing loonies harassing you because of how you vote or donate your money. I watch MSNBC occasionally so I understand the whole them thar e-vile Coke Brothers donating money mantra they love to spew. For ever rich conservative or republican donor there is a liberal equivalent. The fact is you people only want this called transparency regarding donors so your ilk can harass the donors.This is why there is privacy laws, its also why votes are private.
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When your political participation may affect the behavior of MY representative and the laws that I must abide by then yes.,., I do have a right to know.
 
jamesrage said:
Voters influence the candidate.
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They can but many other examples can show they are not the only ones influencing candidates...
They certainly have some influence but not all the influence.


Just as its none of your business who I vote for its none of your business who you donate to.
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And i would beg to differ. I believe if you are going to influence an election with cold hard cash the public has the right to view who influenced them.... Makes the elections more free and more fair.

$131,500 is a lot of money, but its nickels and dimes compared to what he raised.Heck its nickels and dimes compared to what Grimes raised.

Bill Clinton campaigns in Kentucky for Democrat seeking Mitch McConnell's Senate seat | Star Tribune

Heading into 2014, the McConnell campaign bank account totaled $10.9 million while Grimes had almost $3.5 million on hand, the respective campaigns said.
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So now you agree that money influences politicians? And now you can go look up and go see who donated to Grimes... And hell, now you know how much $$$ he raised because he had to disclose this info! Under your system and your dream campaign mode all of this would be "secret" so people dont get "harassed"...

It doesn't matter if you donate a dollar or a million dollars.There should be no political payback.Its why votes are anonymous.Its so left wing hacks do not harass conservative voters for voting for a particular candidate or ballot issue and its so right wing hacks do not harass liberal voters for voting for a particular candidate or ballot issue.
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Because someone is throwing money at them for influence.


Not everyone is a hack who cares who or how much money someone donated to a candidate.
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You just used money in a "hackish" manner above...
 
apdst said:
Controversial Ohio database searches of Joe Wurzelbacher - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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This wasnt because of public disclosure that can be accessed via the FEC or disclosure when you donate this was a mid level bureaucrat abusing his power

Romney donor bashed by Obama campaign now target of two federal audits | Fox News
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Oh now a big donor being audited by the IRS!? The "harassment"? Lawyers talked to him everything turned out to be fine. Happens all the time to both dem and republican donors. The IRS making sure that the moeny wasnt funneled illegally or any many was foreign cash is not harrasment.
Berkeley Law - Op-Eds
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Huge difference between disclosing members and disclosing top $$ donors....

IRS Scandal Echoes a Long History of Political Harassment | TIME.com
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Basically all these examples were given in the 60's and 70's... Are you arguing that we should get rid of the IRS now?


Daily Beast Harasses Private Citizens Who Donated to Palin's PAC
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wow asking them to comment about their moeny being spent, because they are spending more than they take in! Ohhh the "harrassment".
 
jaeger19 said:
Never going to happen.. we need more transparency. Money has always been in US politics.. How many of our founding fathers were dirt poor laborers with no connections?
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None, which is why they founded a system where this nation would be ruled by the interest of rich businessmen who owned slaves. However, their lofty rhetoric actually inspired us to do the things they were talking about, even if they didn't do them. Everyone created equal, government by for and of the people, you know?

Fletch said:
You know you have just said something here that I have never considered. Tell me I am essentially on the right track: Liberals see government as a form of self-empowerment, or a means to limit the power they perceive others have over them. You don't fear government really because you see government as an ally that helps even the playing field between those who have wealth and power and those who do not. Is that basically true or no? And if so, what sort of power do you fear the wealthy 1% exercise over you? It might be that since I have no fear of undo power of the wealthy that I don't look to the state to equalize things.
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No, you don't fear it. And that's why you're a detriment to the future of this country. You don't see the fundamental difference between the "governments" of the dark ages that were nothing but unbridled private power, and a government that is actually beholden to its people. Power is power. Why do you want it in the hands in unaccountable, unelected people whose motivation is purely self-interest instead of people who are accountable to the populace of the nation?

I don't get the pathological hero worship of aristocrats. It makes no sense to me and is completely antithetical to the principles of this country. Is it the delusion that you'll be one someday? Do you actually think that people who are born into wealthy families are better than you? Do you just really hate people who are poorer than you?

I literally don't know how to answer you because your mindset is so alien to me that it's making my head spin.

Let's talk about education, for example. Shouldn't everyone be educated? Shouldn't everyone have a great education? Isn't that more important than education being profitable to people owning schools? Isn't an educated populace one that will make this country greater? Either the priority is profit (which our system of private enterprise necessitates that it would be), or the priority is to educate everyone. You only get one top priority.

If the system is accountable to the people, then their priority is enacted. The people's priority is an educated and prosperous nation. If the system is unaccountable, then the priority of the few powerful people is enacted. Which one do you want to happen?
 
jaeger19 said:
When your political participation may affect the behavior of MY representative and the laws that I must abide by then yes.,., I do have a right to know.
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No you do not have a right to know.Who I vote for or donate money to is my business not yours.
 
jamesrage said:
No you do not have a right to know.Who I vote for or donate money to is my business not yours.
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If you donate that money to MY representative then I darn well have a right to know whose pocket he is in.

You can donate to all sorts of things and I could give a rip and its not my business... but when you are giving money to MY representatives or to people that may become my representatives, then I darn well have the right to know where their loyalty lies.

that's fundamental to real freedom in this country. I need to know if the person running to represent me is being backed by anti gun lobbies that want to take away my freedom, or unions that want to unionize my business through government, or entities that want to see my taxes raised to fund their projects.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
They can but many other examples can show they are not the only ones influencing candidates...
They certainly have some influence but not all the influence.



And i would beg to differ. I believe if you are going to influence an election with cold hard cash the public has the right to view who influenced them.... Makes the elections more free and more fair.


snip....


Because someone is throwing money at them for influence.



You just used money in a "hackish" manner above...
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I do not know if you know this but people and groups donate money to candidates who share their views. This is why the NRA,GOA and other pro-2ndamendment groups donate to conservative candidates and other pro-2nd amendment candidates, why teachers unions donate money to liberals and other pro-union candidates,why pro-life groups donate money to pro-life candidates. You seem to have this idiotic idea that candidates are this blank slate.If candidates were blank slates then Nancy Pelosi and other far left candidates would be getting this big oil money. This influence you claim they are buying non-existing to minimal. If a candidate votes for a pipeline or some other **** its because that is what that candidate believes or what the majority of that candidate's voter's believe.


So now you agree that money influences politicians? And now you can go look up and go see who donated to Grimes... And hell, now you know how much $$$ he raised because he had to disclose this info! Under your system and your dream campaign mode all of this would be "secret" so people dont get "harassed"...
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I posted the link because either you seem to think a hundred thousand is a lot of money in a campaign or you were trying to give the impression 1%-2% of a candidate's total campaign funds is somehow going to buy this magical influence.
 
jamesrage said:
I do not know if you know this but people and groups donate money to candidates who share their views. This is why the NRA,GOA and other pro-2ndamendment groups donate to conservative candidates and other pro-2nd amendment candidates, why teachers unions donate money to liberals and other pro-union candidates,why pro-life groups donate money to pro-life candidates. You seem to have this idiotic idea that candidates are this blank slate.If candidates were blank slates then Nancy Pelosi and other far left candidates would be getting this big oil money. This influence you claim they are buying non-existing to minimal. If a candidate votes for a pipeline or some other **** its because that is what that candidate believes or what the majority of that candidate's voter's believe.
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News flash there are many groups that are pro business and banks and many other groups that donate to both parties.
And so what?



I posted the link because either you seem to think a hundred thousand is a lot of money in a campaign or you were trying to give the impression 1%-2% of a candidate's total campaign funds is somehow going to buy this magical influence.
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$100G's is a good chunk of cash.. Its a good chunk of cash for Congressional races, and its a good chunk of change for state house races. This isnt just about a Presidential campaign.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
News flash there are many groups that are pro business and banks and many other groups that donate to both parties.
And so what?
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This magical influence you claim they buy is almost nonexistent.



$100G's is a good chunk of cash.. Its a good chunk of cash for Congressional races, and its a good chunk of change for state house races. This isnt just about a Presidential campaign.
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Not if your campaign has millions or dollars.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
This wasnt because of public disclosure that can be accessed via the FEC or disclosure when you donate this was a mid level bureaucrat abusing his power


Oh now a big donor being audited by the IRS!? The "harassment"? Lawyers talked to him everything turned out to be fine. Happens all the time to both dem and republican donors. The IRS making sure that the moeny wasnt funneled illegally or any many was foreign cash is not harrasment.

Huge difference between disclosing members and disclosing top $$ donors....


Basically all these examples were given in the 60's and 70's... Are you arguing that we should get rid of the IRS now?



wow asking them to comment about their moeny being spent, because they are spending more than they take in! Ohhh the "harrassment".
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I don't care who it is, every American citizen has the right to participate in the Democratic process, free from harassment by the opposition.
 
jaeger19 said:
If you donate that money to MY representative then I darn well have a right to know whose pocket he is in.

You can donate to all sorts of things and I could give a rip and its not my business... but when you are giving money to MY representatives or to people that may become my representatives, then I darn well have the right to know where their loyalty lies.

that's fundamental to real freedom in this country. I need to know if the person running to represent me is being backed by anti gun lobbies that want to take away my freedom, or unions that want to unionize my business through government, or entities that want to see my taxes raised to fund their projects.
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No you don't.
 
apdst said:
I don't care who it is, every American citizen has the right to participate in the Democratic process, free from harassment by the opposition.
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And i understand this is your opinion.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
And i understand this is your opinion.
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I don't understand why you don't agree.

If it's ok to harass a $1,000,000 donor, then there's nothing to stop the harassment of a $10 donor. Or, do you suggest we just trust that everyone in the world is trustworthy enough not to do it?
 
apdst said:
I don't understand why you don't agree.
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Because i believe in transparency and the public at large has the right to know who is influencing an election, because they are public events not privates.


If it's ok to harass a $1,000,000 donor, then there's nothing to stop the harassment of a $10 donor. Or, do you suggest we just trust that everyone in the world is trustworthy enough not to do it?
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I dont think anyone has been "harassed".
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Really? NOT RARE AT ALL
Democrats and Republicans Sharing Big-Dollar Donors, DCCC
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Again people donate to candidates who share their beliefs. This is why pro-life groups, pro-2nd amendment groups, and pro-traditional marriage groups do not donate to Nancy Pelosi because they know that she will oppose any pro-life legislation regardless if they donate a dollar or a millions dollars.

Most you can donate to one candidate is $2,500 directly (monthly i believe)
The average individual super pac donation in the 2012 cycle was just over $62,000
The "People" Behind the Super-PAC Explosion | Mother Jones
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Super PACs can not donate to candidates.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Because i believe in transparency and the public at large has the right to know who is influencing an election, because they are public events not privates.
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Votes influence elections, too. You want to see that?



I dont think anyone has been "harassed".
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Obviously, as I've shown, you're wrong.
 
jamesrage said:
Again people donate to candidates who share their beliefs. This is why pro-life groups, pro-2nd amendment groups, and pro-traditional marriage groups do not donate to Nancy Pelosi because they know that she will oppose any pro-life legislation regardless if they donate a dollar or a millions dollars.
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That wasnt my point as i agree to that point but i also laid out that many organizations donate to both parties. You claimed that was rare, which infact its not rare at all...




Super PACs can not donate to candidates.
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I know...
Point being?
 
apdst said:
Votes influence elections, too. You want to see that?
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Voters do influence elections but so does money. Are you denying money does not influence elections?






Obviously, as I've shown, you're wrong.
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No you havent. Media asking questions and asking peoples opinions is not harrasment.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Voters do influence elections but so does money. Are you denying money does not influence elections?
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Sure, but you have no right to know who I donate to and how much I give them.






No you havent. Media asking questions and asking peoples opinions is not harrasment.
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That's not "media asking questions". Get with the program.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
That wasnt my point as i agree to that point but i also laid out that many organizations donate to both parties. You claimed that was rare, which infact its not rare at all...
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Again these groups are supporting candidates who SHARE their views.Its not like big oil hands money to a candidate whose views contradict their own and that candidate voted the way big oil wanted.

I know...
Point being?
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Why whine about how much someone donates to a group that can not donate to a candidate?
 
apdst said:
Sure, but you have no right to know who I donate to and how much I give them.
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I disagree. If you're influencing an election which is a public held event, you have the right to know who is influencing the publicly held event.



That's not "media asking questions". Get with the program.
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See post #31
 
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