Tom Perkins; and people wonder why the rich are beginning to be hated more and more..

as they do their best to divest the rest of us of any say, which in fact they sort of already do.

What a mean, hateful bastard.

Investor Tom Perkins says progressive taxation 'persecutes' the rich

By Sarah McBride
SAN FRANCISCO Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:51pm EST

(Reuters) - Tom Perkins, the Silicon Valley venture capitalist who compared the plight of the wealthiest Americans to Jews in Nazi Germany, offered up a provocative new idea on what the rich deserve: more votes in public elections for every dollar they pay in taxes.
"If you pay a million dollars, you should get a million votes," Perkins, the retired co-founder of venture capital firm Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers, told an audience at San Francisco's Commonwealth Club in comments that he later said were meant to be provocative. He also said that only taxpayers should have the right to vote.
Last month, Perkins wrote a much-discussed letter-to-the-editor published in The Wall Street Journal that likened the Nazi party's war on Jews to what he called "the progressive war on the American one percent, namely the 'rich.'"
He later apologized for the analogy, which included a reference to Kristallnacht, the 1938 attack on Jews in Nazi Germany and Austria. He expressed regret again on Thursday for those words, saying, "You shouldn't compare anything to the Holocaust."
But on Thursday night, he doubled down on his comments about the treatment of the nation's wealthiest citizens.

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Investor Tom Perkins says progressive taxation 'persecutes' the rich | Reuters

Re: Tom Perkins; and people wonder why the rich are beginning to be hated more and mo

Summerwind said:

as they do their best to divest the rest of us of any say, which in fact they sort of already do.
What a mean, hateful bastard.
Investor Tom Perkins says progressive taxation 'persecutes' the rich | Reuters

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One man's opinion is insufficient to exemplify "the rich". For every Perkins, there is a Gates.

Also, out of sheer curiosity, at what point in assets are you considered "rich"? A million? 10 million, a billion? I've asked this question before and never got a straight answer. So, if you don't feel like answering, I'll understand - neither has anyone else ever answered either.

Re: Tom Perkins; and people wonder why the rich are beginning to be hated more and mo

specklebang said:

One man's opinion is insufficient to exemplify "the rich". For every Perkins, there is a Gates.

Also, out of sheer curiosity, at what point in assets are you considered "rich"? A million? 10 million, a billion? I've asked this question before and never got a straight answer. So, if you don't feel like answering, I'll understand - neither has anyone else ever answered either.

Click to expand...

I think it has more to do the "percentage" as in 1% or 10% which are now so extremely out of whack with even the top of the 90%. If we are talking about where the "tax on rich" that was proposed a while back should be, I was fine with net income over 1million in having additional taxes.

Otherwise you are fair to peg for the broad brush, but it doesn't diminish the fact that it is comments like these that are turning many against the rich, whether that be fair or not. I suppose the additional evidence that the top 1-10% are sucking up all the profits from productivity increases, shipping jobs overseas to avoid paying living wages here, trying to stop any minimum wage increase, Citizen's United ... I mean he may be the one speaking out, but there's ample evidence that as a whole the rich, with few exceptions including Dems & Libs, the rich generally seem pretty intent on stifling anything that would minimize the income gaps that are so out of whack.

Re: Tom Perkins; and people wonder why the rich are beginning to be hated more and mo

Summerwind said:

I think it has more to do the "percentage" as in 1% or 10% which are now so extremely out of whack with even the top of the 90%. If we are talking about where the "tax on rich" that was proposed a while back should be, I was fine with net income over 1million in having additional taxes.

Otherwise you are fair to peg for the broad brush, but it doesn't diminish the fact that it is comments like these that are turning many against the rich, whether that be fair or not. I suppose the additional evidence that the top 1-10% are sucking up all the profits from productivity increases, shipping jobs overseas to avoid paying living wages here, trying to stop any minimum wage increase, Citizen's United ... I mean he may be the one speaking out, but there's ample evidence that as a whole the rich, with few exceptions including Dems & Libs, the rich generally seem pretty intent on stifling anything that would minimize the income gaps that are so out of whack.

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I do appreciate your answer. I've been seeking a net worth rather than an income definition because having one good year doesn't mean you have accumulated much.

I only had one year of my life in which I made over a million dollars and I believe I paid $320K in taxes, leaving me $680K. But I had years in which I made only $40K, years where I lost money starting a new business, years where I made close to a million and years where I lost more than a million. To my neighbors, if they knew my situation fully, I would be "rich" but to a rich person, I would just be lower middle class. I currently make about $48K, half of which is from SS and the rest from my rentals. So, I'm hardly well off based on that.

Perkins is called a "billionaire" but I'm sure his yearly income is not one billion. As for these huge wealth accumulations, that seems to be a fairly small group of families like the Waltons.

Were people more generous in the past? IDK. Are there some that are totally selfish and screw their workers wherever possible to add to their bonuses, yes, there are - my son worked for one of these for the last 2 years. They mistreated him by outsourcing his job, holding his severance to force him to train his East Indian replacement in the unkindest way possible, and when that blew up, they tried to rehire him but he went to work at the University instead.

But I believe that many, a majority, of highest income or greatest accumulation people are kind and generous and treat their workers well. So don't let the Perkins peckerheads cause you to view everyone the same way.

All the worst comments made by politicians are seized gleefully to judge 1/2 a nation. But it is unfair. Most people don't agree with radicalism so when you hear it, remember that this is one idiot, not an entire group.

Re: Tom Perkins; and people wonder why the rich are beginning to be hated more and mo

specklebang said:

I do appreciate your answer. I've been seeking a net worth rather than an income definition because having one good year doesn't mean you have accumulated much.

I only had one year of my life in which I made over a million dollars and I believe I paid $320K in taxes, leaving me $680K. But I had years in which I made only $40K, years where I lost money starting a new business, years where I made close to a million and years where I lost more than a million. To my neighbors, if they knew my situation fully, I would be "rich" but to a rich person, I would just be lower middle class. I currently make about $48K, half of which is from SS and the rest from my rentals. So, I'm hardly well off based on that.

Perkins is called a "billionaire" but I'm sure his yearly income is not one billion. As for these huge wealth accumulations, that seems to be a fairly small group of families like the Waltons.

Were people more generous in the past? IDK. Are there some that are totally selfish and screw their workers wherever possible to add to their bonuses, yes, there are - my son worked for one of these for the last 2 years. They mistreated him by outsourcing his job, holding his severance to force him to train his East Indian replacement in the unkindest way possible, and when that blew up, they tried to rehire him but he went to work at the University instead.

But I believe that many, a majority, of highest income or greatest accumulation people are kind and generous and treat their workers well. So don't let the Perkins peckerheads cause you to view everyone the same way.

All the worst comments made by politicians are seized gleefully to judge 1/2 a nation. But it is unfair. Most people don't agree with radicalism so when you hear it, remember that this is one idiot, not an entire group.

Click to expand...

Kudos... well expressed :applaud

Thom Paine

Re: Tom Perkins; and people wonder why the rich are beginning to be hated more and mo

specklebang said:

I do appreciate your answer. I've been seeking a net worth rather than an income definition because having one good year doesn't mean you have accumulated much.

I only had one year of my life in which I made over a million dollars and I believe I paid $320K in taxes, leaving me $680K. But I had years in which I made only $40K, years where I lost money starting a new business, years where I made close to a million and years where I lost more than a million. To my neighbors, if they knew my situation fully, I would be "rich" but to a rich person, I would just be lower middle class. I currently make about $48K, half of which is from SS and the rest from my rentals. So, I'm hardly well off based on that.

Perkins is called a "billionaire" but I'm sure his yearly income is not one billion. As for these huge wealth accumulations, that seems to be a fairly small group of families like the Waltons.

Were people more generous in the past? IDK. Are there some that are totally selfish and screw their workers wherever possible to add to their bonuses, yes, there are - my son worked for one of these for the last 2 years. They mistreated him by outsourcing his job, holding his severance to force him to train his East Indian replacement in the unkindest way possible, and when that blew up, they tried to rehire him but he went to work at the University instead.

But I believe that many, a majority, of highest income or greatest accumulation people are kind and generous and treat their workers well. So don't let the Perkins peckerheads cause you to view everyone the same way.

All the worst comments made by politicians are seized gleefully to judge 1/2 a nation. But it is unfair. Most people don't agree with radicalism so when you hear it, remember that this is one idiot, not an entire group.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately the stats of income and opportunity inequality belie your choice to believe otherwise. Or maybe a better way of putting it is that they are really self centered, greedy, nice people. I mean I've known and even been a part of the "rich" and you're right to meet them, they seem fine, but that's what manners do. Manners don't change the realities of income and opportunity and asset inequality that has occurred over the past 30-40 years.

If your income was that off balance and your accountant wasn't able to utilize lean years as offsets against boom years, you needed a better accountant. That's not the tax code's fault, though I will say taxes shouldn't be so difficult as to need an accountant.

Re: Tom Perkins; and people wonder why the rich are beginning to be hated more and mo

Summerwind said:

Unfortunately the stats of income and opportunity inequality belie your choice to believe otherwise. Or maybe a better way of putting it is that they are really self centered, greedy, nice people. I mean I've known and even been a part of the "rich" and you're right to meet them, they seem fine, but that's what manners do. Manners don't change the realities of income and opportunity and asset inequality that has occurred over the past 30-40 years.

If your income was that off balance and your accountant wasn't able to utilize lean years as offsets against boom years, you needed a better accountant. That's not the tax code's fault, though I will say taxes shouldn't be so difficult as to need an accountant.

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We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. This presumption that "they" are all alike is simply untrue IMHO. I paid my people very well and I could have made far more if I hadn't done so. I'm not the only nice guy on the planet.

I assure you I have a very competent CPA and there is no tax link between my income in 1990 and my income in 2013.

As for inequality of opportunity, there is some truth but it's not all correct. I have a GED. I worked hard and saved hard and tried my hand at business until I succeeded. I've never gotten a dime from the government until I started SS at age 66. There is also inequality in ambition, effort and luck. The harder you work, the luckier you get.

Re: Tom Perkins; and people wonder why the rich are beginning to be hated more and mo

specklebang said:

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. This presumption that "they" are all alike is simply untrue IMHO. I paid my people very well and I could have made far more if I hadn't done so. I'm not the only nice guy on the planet.

I assure you I have a very competent CPA and there is no tax link between my income in 1990 and my income in 2013.

As for inequality of opportunity, there is some truth but it's not all correct. I have a GED. I worked hard and saved hard and tried my hand at business until I succeeded. I've never gotten a dime from the government until I started SS at age 66. There is also inequality in ambition, effort and luck. The harder you work, the luckier you get.

Click to expand...

I don't think all of them are either. But how could so much inequality have occurred without a lot of collusion? Are you suggesting that it's really only a few that are determined to have more for the one at the expense of both the many and the economy as a whole? And if you are then how did those few get so much power and why are the "good" ones not coming out against the few? Sorry, it is not currently in evidence that "most" are good guys that care about their employees much less anyone else's.

Re: Tom Perkins; and people wonder why the rich are beginning to be hated more and mo

Summerwind said:

Investor Tom Perkins says progressive taxation 'persecutes' the rich | Reuters

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Cry me a river, Tom.
Wealthy people have a huge say in what legislation is passed and not passed.
Their lobbying and bribes....oops..political donations give them a huge say in gov't.
We, the anonymous little people, only have our one vote.
This guy's a cranky old fart, that's all.

Re: Tom Perkins; and people wonder why the rich are beginning to be hated more and mo

specklebang said:

One man's opinion is insufficient to exemplify "the rich". For every Perkins, there is a Gates.

Also, out of sheer curiosity, at what point in assets are you considered "rich"? A million? 10 million, a billion? I've asked this question before and never got a straight answer. So, if you don't feel like answering, I'll understand - neither has anyone else ever answered either.

Click to expand...

Ditto.



Apparently some people still consider "million" to be some kind of magic number denoting "rich ness"... even though frankly, a million dollars in net worth really isn't "wealth" anymore. It's barely enough to live comfortably off the interest income of the portfolio, let alone anything resembling lifestyles of the Rich and Shameless...

Re: Tom Perkins; and people wonder why the rich are beginning to be hated more and mo

Goshin said:

Ditto.



Apparently some people still consider "million" to be some kind of magic number denoting "rich ness"... even though frankly, a million dollars in net worth really isn't "wealth" anymore. It's barely enough to live comfortably off the interest income of the portfolio, let alone anything resembling lifestyles of the Rich and Shameless...

Click to expand...

Maybe 'barely enough' is still enough. That's like, 'pretty much plenty'. Maybe if you can live comfortably off your assets, maybe if you don't need any more income, then you're rich.
Works for me, definition-wise. Unless unbridled greed enters the equation, that is.

Re: Tom Perkins; and people wonder why the rich are beginning to be hated more and mo

radioman said:

Cry me a river, Tom.
Wealthy people have a huge say in what legislation is passed and not passed.
Their lobbying and bribes....oops..political donations give them a huge say in gov't.
We, the anonymous little people, only have our one vote.
This guy's a cranky old fart, that's all.

Click to expand...

If that's the case, then they screwed themselves by setting up a system where they pay most of the taxes and the bottom 50% pays nothing.

Re: Tom Perkins; and people wonder why the rich are beginning to be hated more and mo

Summerwind said:

I think it has more to do the "percentage" as in 1% or 10% which are now so extremely out of whack with even the top of the 90%. If we are talking about where the "tax on rich" that was proposed a while back should be, I was fine with net income over 1million in having additional taxes.

Otherwise you are fair to peg for the broad brush, but it doesn't diminish the fact that it is comments like these that are turning many against the rich, whether that be fair or not. I suppose the additional evidence that the top 1-10% are sucking up all the profits from productivity increases, shipping jobs overseas to avoid paying living wages here, trying to stop any minimum wage increase, Citizen's United ... I mean he may be the one speaking out, but there's ample evidence that as a whole the rich, with few exceptions including Dems & Libs, the rich generally seem pretty intent on stifling anything that would minimize the income gaps that are so out of whack.

Click to expand...

Maybe the Libbos should stop trying to rob successful entrepreneurs and let things sort themselves out.

Re: Tom Perkins; and people wonder why the rich are beginning to be hated more and mo

apdst said:

Maybe the Libbos should stop trying to rob successful entrepreneurs and let things sort themselves out.

Click to expand...

:roll:

Re: Tom Perkins; and people wonder why the rich are beginning to be hated more and mo

apdst said:

If that's the case, then they screwed themselves by setting up a system where they pay most of the taxes and the bottom 50% pays nothing.

Click to expand...

Well, the bottom 50% would pay more in taxes if they earned more money.
If Perkins feels so put upon, why doesn't he give his dough to charity and join the lower half?
He'd be livin' large....no taxes...not much money...but at least he wouldn't feel so darned oppressed.

Re: Tom Perkins; and people wonder why the rich are beginning to be hated more and mo

Goshin said:

Rich and Shameless

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I love this one as it perfectly describes this NON-philanthropist, to the best of my knowledge.
A guy who said he felt persecuted like the JEWS by Hitler, as in Kristallnacht--his words.
Again, many thanks for the new phrase, although it doesn't come close to describing the Kochs or Adelson .

Re: Tom Perkins; and people wonder why the rich are beginning to be hated more and mo

radioman said:

Well, the bottom 50% would pay more in taxes if they earned more money.
If Perkins feels so put upon, why doesn't he give his dough to charity and join the lower half?
He'd be livin' large....no taxes...not much money...but at least he wouldn't feel so darned oppressed.

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The point you're missing, is that it's not the rich people that is lowering wages; it's the government.

Re: Tom Perkins; and people wonder why the rich are beginning to be hated more and mo

Maybe you should stop lying about people trying to rob successful entrepreneurs.
Btw, I've been advised that calling a person a liar is quite alright around here,
especially when they're lying and haven't proven a damn thing with their "LIBBO" noise.

You should try to find out how many hundreds of millions that this hedge-funder has made using taxpayer money to finance his schemes.
Schemes that have been robbing America since Reagan's times and are responsible for the Total Accumulated Debt .

apdst said:

Maybe the Libbos should stop trying to rob successful entrepreneurs and let things sort themselves out.

Click to expand...

Re: Tom Perkins; and people wonder why the rich are beginning to be hated more and mo

That's why Obama raised the minimum wage for government contrators.
Since Congress refuses to take Viagra in order to get anything done.

apdst said:

The point you're missing, is that it's not the rich people that is lowering wages; it's the government.

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Which is why Obama had to give California 100 million today because of the severe drought,
because Congress just can't seem to get anything up .

Re: Tom Perkins; and people wonder why the rich are beginning to be hated more and mo

NIMBY said:

Maybe you should stop lying about people trying to rob successful entrepreneurs.
Btw, I've been advised that calling a person a liar is quite alright around here,
especially when they're lying and haven't proven a damn thing with their "LIBBO" noise.

You should try to find out how many hundreds of millions that this hedge-funder has made using taxpayer money to finance his schemes.
Schemes that have been robbing America since Reagan's times and are responsible for the Total Accumulated Debt .

Click to expand...

Nevermind the 15 TRILLION dollars that have been spent on welfare over the past 50 years. You wanna talk about a rip off?

Re: Tom Perkins; and people wonder why the rich are beginning to be hated more and mo

NIMBY said:

That's why Obama raised the minimum wage for government contrators.
Since Congress refuses to take Viagra in order to get anything done.


Which is why Obama had to give California 100 million today because of the severe drought,
because Congress just can't seem to get anything up .

Click to expand...

Yeah, **** The Constitution.

Re: Tom Perkins; and people wonder why the rich are beginning to be hated more and mo

apdst said:

The point you're missing, is that it's not the rich people that is lowering wages; it's the government.

Click to expand...

Well, I did miss that point.
I've never seen THAT particular spin from anyone.
I'm sure Perkins wants to use his well-deserved million votes to uplift the masses, but that darned gov't just won't let him vote enough times.
That's pretty unbelievable......hmmm...aren't you the vanilla malt-DUI guy?

Re: Tom Perkins; and people wonder why the rich are beginning to be hated more and mo

Which is exactly what Mitch said when he pronounced that his #1 goal was to make Obama a one-term POTUS.
From there, he proceedede to break all-time records for filibusters that still have our Founding Fathers tossing and turning at night .

apdst said:

Yeah, **** The Constitution.

Click to expand...

Re: Tom Perkins; and people wonder why the rich are beginning to be hated more and mo

How much of that 15 trillion in welfare you mention has gone to your buddies in corporations?
Why do we not know in the current Farm bill which dozen GOP big-time farmers are getting millions in subsidies?
If we hadn't spent it on welfare as you mention over the last 50 years,
Reagan would have spent it on another military toy that Sen. Lugar would have eventually terminated.

apdst said:

Nevermind the 15 TRILLION dollars that have been spent on welfare over the past 50 years.
You wanna talk about a rip off?

Click to expand...

Yes, the GOP priorities over the last three decades have been a ****ing disaster from which we will never recover.
How much do you think we pay on interest every year on total accumulated debt before Obama?
How much of Obama's so-called TAD is due to just GWB's wars of choices ?

Re: Tom Perkins; and people wonder why the rich are beginning to be hated more and mo

NIMBY said:

How much of that 15 trillion in welfare you mention has gone to your buddies in corporations?
Why do we not know in the current Farm bill which dozen GOP big-time farmers are getting millions in subsidies?
If we hadn't spent it on welfare as you mention over the last 50 years,
Reagan would have spent it on another military toy that Sen. Lugar would have eventually terminated.

Yes, the GOP priorities over the last three decades have been a ****ing disaster from which we will never recover.
How much do you think we pay on interest every year on total accumulated debt before Obama?
How much of Obama's so-called TAD is due to just GWB's wars of choices ?

Click to expand...

That's the amount that's been spent on The War on Poverty.

Since we started spending that 15 trillion, we've created more poverty than we've terminated.