Elizabeth Warren: Why Isn’t Min Wage Keeping Up With Productivity? Should Be $22 p/h

[TheDemSocialist]

Sen. Warren asked Dr. Arindrajit Dube, who is an assistant professor at the Department of Economics, University of Massachusetts Amherst, Amherst, MA and has done extensive research about a minimum wage increase’s effect on the economy:

If we started in 1960 and we said that as productivity goes up, that is as workers are producing more, then the minimum wage is going to go up the same. And if that were the case then the minimum wage today would be about $22 an hour. So my question is Mr. Dube, with a minimum wage of $7.25 an hour–what happened to the other $14.75? It sure didn’t go to the worker.​

Read more and video @: Elizabeth Warren: Why Isn't Min Wage Keeping Up With Productivity? Should Be $22 p/h - Americans Against the Tea Party

Cant "raise the minimum wage" my ass. I have a sudden feeling that all that money isnt going to the workers... I feel like its going to the CEO's the management that 1%... [FONT=Georgia, serif]Productivity[/FONT] up and wages have remained the same. We have always been told is that in the American dream if you work hard youll make it, youll get paid more. American dream? More like the American myth.
​

 

[Goshin]

Re: Elizabeth Warren: Why Isn’t Min Wage Keeping Up With Productivity? Should Be $22

If minimum wage were $22/hr, a head of lettuce would cost $10. The cost of almost everything would go up. In the end, $22 wouldn't buy any more than $7 does today.

Unless you want to institute price controls as well, which historically never worked out so much...

 

[digsbe]

Re: Elizabeth Warren: Why Isn’t Min Wage Keeping Up With Productivity? Should Be $22

I think minimum wage is fine where it is at. $22/hr is insane and far to high in today's economy for minimum wage worthy labor.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Re: Elizabeth Warren: Why Isn’t Min Wage Keeping Up With Productivity? Should Be $22

I think minimum wage is fine where it is at. $22/hr is insane and far to high in today's economy for minimum wage worthy labor.

I agree that $22/hr is "insane" but i disagree with that you think minimum wage is fine where its at. We were always told the harder you work the more money you will get. Workers productivity is up people are working harder and longer, but we are not getting the benefits of our labor instead its not the people who are working harder wages growing, its someone elses..

 

[digsbe]

Re: Elizabeth Warren: Why Isn’t Min Wage Keeping Up With Productivity? Should Be $22

I agree that $22/hr is "insane" but i disagree with that you think minimum wage is fine where its at. We were always told the harder you work the more money you will get. Workers productivity is up people are working harder and longer, but we are not getting the benefits of our labor instead its not the people who are working harder wages growing, its someone elses..

If you work harder you may get raises and promotions. The American dream is not a promise. One of the problems I think is that people think they are owed a higher wage because a guy at the top is making millions. If someone is not content living on minimum wage they should learn a skill or obtain an education that allows them to compete for jobs that pay better and require more than what minimum wage labor demands.

 

[Bonzai]

Re: Elizabeth Warren: Why Isn’t Min Wage Keeping Up With Productivity? Should Be $22

If you work harder you may get raises and promotions. The American dream is not a promise. One of the problems I think is that people think they are owed a higher wage because a guy at the top is making millions. If someone is not content living on minimum wage they should learn a skill or obtain an education that allows them to compete for jobs that pay better and require more than what minimum wage labor demands.

Plausible. And you only get what you pay for: If you pay someone $7.50 an hour, that's what you're going to get. The Right needs to lose 2 illusions: 1) That you can get something for nothing, and 2) People go to work because it makes them feel personally "fulfilled"....................

 

[ttwtt78640]

Re: Elizabeth Warren: Why Isn’t Min Wage Keeping Up With Productivity? Should Be $22

I agree that $22/hr is "insane" but i disagree with that you think minimum wage is fine where its at. We were always told the harder you work the more money you will get. Workers productivity is up people are working harder and longer, but we are not getting the benefits of our labor instead its not the people who are working harder wages growing, its someone elses..

Show me how a McWorker is working any harder. Much of the productivity increase in due to computer use and other automation. It is actually eaiser to run a computerized/scanning cash register. Some jobs got a bit harder, yet most got quite a lot easier. In many cases, that increase in prodictivity causes fewer workers to produce more, in those cases the trade off would be higher wages for some and no jobs for others. In times of high unemployment, more people are willing to work for less pay, so it makes no sense to offer more than is required to get a queue of qualified applicants.

 

[Thrilla]

Re: Elizabeth Warren: Why Isn’t Min Wage Keeping Up With Productivity? Should Be $22

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Read more and video @: Elizabeth Warren: Why Isn't Min Wage Keeping Up With Productivity? Should Be $22 p/h - Americans Against the Tea Party

Cant "raise the minimum wage" my ass. I have a sudden feeling that all that money isnt going to the workers... I feel like its going to the CEO's the management that 1%... [FONT=Georgia, serif]Productivity[/FONT] up and wages have remained the same. We have always been told is that in the American dream if you work hard youll make it, youll get paid more. American dream? More like the American myth.
[/INDENT]

doesn't much matter what you "feel"... what "is" is vastly more important

a few assumption being made by you and Elizabeth... first, that it's proper to base minimum wage on overall productivity.... overall productivity does not inherently speak to workers working harder... in this day in age, productivity increases can be tied to human labor , to technology ( technology ain't cheap either), and to efficiencies.
2nd, that increases in productivity equates to an increase in profit that goes right into a fat cats wallet...an assumption that negates costs , other than labor, that firms must shell out for.
for a quick example.. did they take into consideration increased compliance costs from 1960 until now ?... obviously they did not, or they would not be claiming that extra 14 bucks an hours goes to the fat cats.
I've been in business for 10 years... and my compliance costs have increased dramatically...what used to take up about 90 hours annually, now takes a few hundred.... that is time not spend on commerce, time that costs money, time that an employee has to spend doing the work, time we must compensate the employee for
overall compliance costs( all levels of government) for 2011 ,for me, was a touch over $400,000 ( haven't done 2012 yet).. not including mandated expenditures such as workers comp insurance and taxes.
400k ain't nuthin' to sneeze at

now, I don't do minimum wage workers, so the impact minimum wage has on my business is hard to determine, but my point is that there is some complex , and forgotten about, factors involved in business( forgotten only by those in government)... god I wish it was as easy as factoring productivity against human labor and calling it a day, but it's just not so... not even remotely close.

 

[digsbe]

Re: Elizabeth Warren: Why Isn’t Min Wage Keeping Up With Productivity? Should Be $22

Plausible. And you only get what you pay for: If you pay someone $7.50 an hour, that's what you're going to get. The Right needs to lose 2 illusions: 1) That you can get something for nothing, and 2) People go to work because it makes them feel personally "fulfilled"....................

That's why I support being able to fire employees. Employment is like a contract, you agree to work at the starting wage and do the duties. If you feel the pay is unfair or your work burden is too high then bring it up with your employer, who can chose to not act upon your complaints, or quit and find another job. They are paying wages, employees should be meeting work expectations. If your pay is too low then there is an incentive for good employees to leave and work at other establishments that pay better.

I think the left needs to lose several illusions with the largest being that just because a CEO or manager makes good money that it is somehow owed or should be redistributed to the employees at the bottom. Let the market drive wages, not the government.

 

[Bigfoot 88]

Re: Elizabeth Warren: Why Isn’t Min Wage Keeping Up With Productivity? Should Be $22

It's complicated but one of the main issues is our fiat currency. Real wages and productivity tied wages decoupled after severing ties with the gold standard for good.

 

[Bonzai]

Re: Elizabeth Warren: Why Isn’t Min Wage Keeping Up With Productivity? Should Be $22

That's why I support being able to fire employees. Employment is like a contract, you agree to work at the starting wage and do the duties. If you feel the pay is unfair or your work burden is too high then bring it up with your employer, who can chose to not act upon your complaints, or quit and find another job. They are paying wages, employees should be meeting work expectations. If your pay is too low then there is an incentive for good employees to leave and work at other establishments that pay better.

I think the left needs to lose several illusions with the largest being that just because a CEO or manager makes good money that it is somehow owed or should be redistributed to the employees at the bottom. Let the market drive wages, not the government.

I managed a Subway.................I can only say that it was nothing more than a destroyer of the work ethic, and I had alot of employees that started out as really great workers.....................

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Elizabeth Warren: Why Isn’t Min Wage Keeping Up With Productivity? Should Be $22

[/COLOR][/FONT]

Read more and video @: Elizabeth Warren: Why Isn't Min Wage Keeping Up With Productivity? Should Be $22 p/h - Americans Against the Tea Party

Cant "raise the minimum wage" my ass. I have a sudden feeling that all that money isnt going to the workers... I feel like its going to the CEO's the management that 1%... [FONT=Georgia, serif]Productivity[/FONT] up and wages have remained the same. We have always been told is that in the American dream if you work hard youll make it, youll get paid more. American dream? More like the American myth.
[/INDENT]

why should the federal government even have the right to make this a law?

 

[Paschendale]

Re: Elizabeth Warren: Why Isn’t Min Wage Keeping Up With Productivity? Should Be $22

If minimum wage were $22/hr, a head of lettuce would cost $10. The cost of almost everything would go up. In the end, $22 wouldn't buy any more than $7 does today.

Unless you want to institute price controls as well, which historically never worked out so much...

I always like how assertions like these assume that profits cannot ever be allowed to decrease. Higher wages does not have to translate to higher prices. Only higher wagers and continuing the vast profits reaped by corporate owners translate to higher prices. Those profiteers do not deserve, work for, or earn those outrageous profits. There is no reason why the rest of us should scrimp and save to subsidize others living the high life.

 

[Goshin]

Re: Elizabeth Warren: Why Isn’t Min Wage Keeping Up With Productivity? Should Be $22

I always like how assertions like these assume that profits cannot ever be allowed to decrease. Higher wages does not have to translate to higher prices. Only higher wagers and continuing the vast profits reaped by corporate owners translate to higher prices. Those profiteers do not deserve, work for, or earn those outrageous profits. There is no reason why the rest of us should scrimp and save to subsidize others living the high life.

It seems improbable that the stockholders and top executives of a given corporation would be willing to allow profits to fall by too great a margin.... unless forced to by, for instance, price controls, or some other mechanism.

Moreso small businesses, where a single owner is making a living off the business and probably acting as his own CEO and general manager and chief of sales all in one person. It isn't all about giant corps.


Hey, I'd like to make more money too... I'm just a blue collar guy. I'm open to suggestions... what's your solution?

 

[Juggernaut]

Re: Elizabeth Warren: Why Isn’t Min Wage Keeping Up With Productivity? Should Be $22

There is no reason why the rest of us should scrimp and save to subsidize others living the high life.

Those evil companies don't have a gun to your head. Simply just stop subsidizing the corporate fat cats: Walk don't drive, Cook don't eat out, mow your own grass, etc... Do without the products those evil companies produce.


Better yet, drop a 15$/hr tip to every minimum wage worker you see, so the fat cats don't get it.

 

[iguanaman]

Re: Elizabeth Warren: Why Isn’t Min Wage Keeping Up With Productivity? Should Be $22

Show me how a McWorker is working any harder. Much of the productivity increase in due to computer use and other automation. It is actually eaiser to run a computerized/scanning cash register. Some jobs got a bit harder, yet most got quite a lot easier. In many cases, that increase in prodictivity causes fewer workers to produce more, in those cases the trade off would be higher wages for some and no jobs for others. In times of high unemployment, more people are willing to work for less pay, so it makes no sense to offer more than is required to get a queue of qualified applicants.

And you just hit on the reason that Republicans are never interested in reducing unemployment, it keeps wages down. Yet another reason to never vote for Republicans unless you are an employer.

The BGOV Barometer shows that since Democrat John F. Kennedy took office in January 1961, non-government payrolls in the U.S. swelled by almost 42 million jobs under Democrats, compared with 24 million for Republican presidents, according to Labor Department figures.
Democrats hold the edge though they occupied the Oval Office for 23 years since Kennedy’s inauguration, compared with 28 for the Republicans. Through April, Democratic presidents accounted for an average of 150,000 additional private-sector paychecks per month over that period, more than double the 71,000 average for Republicans.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-08/private-jobs-increase-more-with-democrats-in-white-house.html

 

[Paschendale]

Re: Elizabeth Warren: Why Isn’t Min Wage Keeping Up With Productivity? Should Be $22

Those evil companies don't have a gun to your head. Simply just stop subsidizing the corporate fat cats: Walk don't drive, Cook don't eat out, mow your own grass, etc... Do without the products those evil companies produce.

And why should they be allowed to monopolize the technology and learning that we have spent centuries learning?

It is not that anyone who doesn't wish to feed the beast must live like paupers. It is that the rules of property, ownership, fiduciary duty, and pretty much the entire economic system needs an overhaul, so that the overarching goal of business enterprise isn't to make a few people as wealthy as possible, but rather to create a better society. Your solution still leaves us at the mercy of those giant conglomerates and the ungodly amount of power they wield. If you want a better society, that dynamic needs to go. Power must be distributed much much MUCH more evenly.

 

[Wiseone]

Re: Elizabeth Warren: Why Isn’t Min Wage Keeping Up With Productivity? Should Be $22

If I made 22 bucks an hour I could work an eight hour day 5 days a work and bring home almost 45 thousand dollars a year. That's crazy for minimum wage, hell that's more than what I made last year in base pay!

 

[Ray410]

Re: Elizabeth Warren: Why Isn’t Min Wage Keeping Up With Productivity? Should Be $22

America has now been cursed with a culture of entry level employees, no education, no motivation to improve themselves, no thought of a job beyond an entry level job. Many cannot even make change, say "Thank you" or learn the language of the customers.

These people have taken the jobs that used to be done by older, retired people, temporary employees on their way up or high school and college kids. They have taken those jobs and they simply stay for years without a thought of going to school, learning a trade or doing anything to improve themselves. Their advancement, their success is to whine about a higher minimum wage and they expect their favorite Liberal politicians to get it for them.

They are truly a curse to a modern society. Employers should just let them go after a few months or a couple years. Let them go to an entry level job somewhere else and give their job to someone who deserves it. They are a burden on society.

 

[Juggernaut]

Re: Elizabeth Warren: Why Isn’t Min Wage Keeping Up With Productivity? Should Be $22

And why should they be allowed to monopolize the technology and learning that we have spent centuries learning?

I do, agree with this point. The greatest injustice to anyone is the denial of education.

It is not that anyone who doesn't wish to feed the beast must live like paupers. It is that the rules of property, ownership, fiduciary duty, and pretty much the entire economic system needs an overhaul, so that the overarching goal of business enterprise isn't to make a few people as wealthy as possible, but rather to create a better society. Your solution still leaves us at the mercy of those giant conglomerates and the ungodly amount of power they wield. If you want a better society, that dynamic needs to go. Power must be distributed much much MUCH more evenly.

I also realize that corporations/CEOs (anyone one with money) is in possession of more power than the average person. Laws are needed to keep those powers in check. But, I can't feel sorry for some who is crying about making 7$/hr who isn't subject to those abuses of power. In Louisiana, everyone has the opportunity for a free ride to college. College isn't for everyone, Trades/vocational schools are plentiful. The internet and computers are available free of charge at school and libraries. If your "stuck" working a McJob making 7$ it's most likely by your own negligence.

 

[LiberalAvenger]

Re: Elizabeth Warren: Why Isn’t Min Wage Keeping Up With Productivity? Should Be $22

I would like to see some minimum wage categories, such as skilled, semiskilled, low skill, etc and then have wages appropriate to experience and skill level.

 

[Heebie Jeebie]

Re: Elizabeth Warren: Why Isn’t Min Wage Keeping Up With Productivity? Should Be $22

Workers productivity is up people are working harder and longer, but we are not getting the benefits of our labor instead its not the people who are working harder wages growing, its someone elses..

Which is why most workers make way more than minimum wage.

 

[What if...?]

Re: Elizabeth Warren: Why Isn’t Min Wage Keeping Up With Productivity? Should Be $22

If I made 22 bucks an hour I could work an eight hour day 5 days a work and bring home almost 45 thousand dollars a year. That's crazy for minimum wage, hell that's more than what I made last year in base pay!

I rhink the point isnt that minimum wage should be $22/hr but that productivity and profits have gone up but wages haven't.

Too much of the countries output has gone to too few.

The revolving door in DC for finance executives, who go there and get regs modified and then go back to their old jobs and reap the profits from their changes.

 

[What if...?]

Re: Elizabeth Warren: Why Isn’t Min Wage Keeping Up With Productivity? Should Be $22

I do, agree with this point. The greatest injustice to anyone is the denial of education.



I also realize that corporations/CEOs (anyone one with money) is in possession of more power than the average person. Laws are needed to keep those powers in check. But, I can't feel sorry for some who is crying about making 7$/hr who isn't subject to those abuses of power. In Louisiana, everyone has the opportunity for a free ride to college. College isn't for everyone, Trades/vocational schools are plentiful. The internet and computers are available free of charge at school and libraries. If your "stuck" working a McJob making 7$ it's most likely by your own negligence.

One must bear in mind that globalism puts us in a world where we're.competing with $8/hr engineers.

But our rents are set by a speculative real.estate market. So they've gone up while wages haven't.

We're approaching a.post-labor economy, and it flies in the face of our traditional work ethics.

 

[jimbo]

Re: Elizabeth Warren: Why Isn’t Min Wage Keeping Up With Productivity? Should Be $22

I agree that $22/hr is "insane" but i disagree with that you think minimum wage is fine where its at. We were always told the harder you work the more money you will get. Workers productivity is up people are working harder and longer, but we are not getting the benefits of our labor instead its not the people who are working harder wages growing, its someone elses..

The minimum wage is just that, a floor. Nothing to stop you and those who think like you to form your own company and pay whatever you like.

This has been done in the past, and in some cases it worked. The most notable example was a company early in the 1900's who paid nearly double the going wage, improved productivity with innovative manufacturing techniques. Company at one time manufactured 90% of the automobiles in the world. Fellow by the name of Ford, I believe.

At the time he did it on his own, no government intervention. It is still possible today.