Define your lean

megaprogman said:

giggity.

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Oh, mega. What are we going to do with you?

Mine is a mixture between finding myself taking middle-of-the-road viewpoints in contemporary American politics at the same time as having a mixture of conservative (some from the late 18th century onto the mid 19th century), neoconservative, and liberal perspectives.

tessaesque said:

Most of you have selected a lean on your profiles. Now that you've selected it, will you please define what it means to you? Often we find ourselves pigeon-holed by other posters because they view our lean differently than we do. I know I, for one, changed my lean to "other" specifically for that reason. In an effort to understand my fellow posters better, I'd like to know what your lean means to you.

What does it mean to identify yourself as "liberl", "conservative", or any other available selection?

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My lean is libertarian. To me, this means that there are only two rules to life: 1) Don't initiate, or accept, force. 2) Keep your word. That's it.

I put my label as independent because I do not really know what lean is for me. I see the need for a welfare state, but think ours needs to be reworked. I am rather anti-intervention. I am pro life up to a point (23 weeks) and I am anti-death penalty unless under the most extreme circumstances. I am pro gay rights and as long as religion does not bother me than I could careless about it. If it isn't explosive, high powered, or automatic I am pro-second amendment, although I think it should be strongly recommonded for gun saftey and training. I am rather economically conservative. I think in terms of immigration we need to punish the businesses that hire illegals equally, if not more, than the illegals themselves; however for those that have been in the country for a long times and have strong ties to the community should have a quicker immigration process than others. I really do not care what people say on the radio because I just do not listen to them, however, if people want to protest what some say, they have that right.

Im down as conservative and on most issues I certainly am. But more and more I find myself coming down in the libertarian camp on a good many issues, primarily social ones. Its just feels to me like governemnt is becoming overwhelming in how its got to make a decisions about every little thing.

I'm a Progressive because I believe government has the ability-- and the moral obligation-- to improve the living conditions of the people who live under its jurisdiction. I believe in a scientific government that has specific, objective policy goals and applies rational, pragmatic measures to achieve them. I believe in a moral government that deals fairly with others and demands that others deal fairly with it and with its citizens.

Ideologically, I'm stuck in the Thirties. I would have readily been labelled a "liberal" and a "progressive" in the era when those terms were used to describe Theodore Roosevelt's brand of civic nationalism-- the ideal of an America in which all Americans got the opportunity to succeed on their own merits, in which merit was rewarded and vice punished, and in which anyone could be an American if they only loved their fellow Americans enough. I want to live in the world he wanted to create. The problem is that modern liberals got distracted from creating a better world by identity politics and special interest groups, and both side of our political spectrum have abandoned science as the means of understanding the world we live in and improving upon it.

megaprogman said:

giggity.

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Dog!!!!!!!!!!!

soccerboy22 said:

I put my label as independent because I do not really know what lean is for me. I see the need for a welfare state, but think ours needs to be reworked. I am rather anti-intervention. I am pro life up to a point (23 weeks) and I am anti-death penalty unless under the most extreme circumstances. I am pro gay rights and as long as religion does not bother me than I could careless about it. If it isn't explosive, high powered, or automatic I am pro-second amendment, although I think it should be strongly recommonded for gun saftey and training. I am rather economically conservative. I think in terms of immigration we need to punish the businesses that hire illegals equally, if not more, than the illegals themselves; however for those that have been in the country for a long times and have strong ties to the community should have a quicker immigration process than others. I really do not care what people say on the radio because I just do not listen to them, however, if people want to protest what some say, they have that right.

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Dude, you are one of the most reasoned people here. Even when I don't agree with you I read what you have to say.

Good on you.

tessaesque said:

Most of you have selected a lean on your profiles. Now that you've selected it, will you please define what it means to you? Often we find ourselves pigeon-holed by other posters because they view our lean differently than we do. I know I, for one, changed my lean to "other" specifically for that reason. In an effort to understand my fellow posters better, I'd like to know what your lean means to you.

What does it mean to identify yourself as "liberl", "conservative", or any other available selection?

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I will vote whichever party I think would do the best job. I don't like being in a box, so I am free to be wishy or washy.

Honestly, truthfully, really, we're are fecked. Anyone who seriously believes that their party is the way, the truth, and the light is a dumbass.

Yesterday I read where a national survey determined that the most pressing issue for all Americans in the election was the price of gasoline! No ****! The survery reported that the price of gasoline was the most important election issue. It is clear to me then that most people in my country are dumber than a bag of ****ing hammers!

Pretty much that is the end of the argument, end of story. Most Americans are freaking dolts. Partisan politics gives them a kind of socially accepted reason for being intellectually lazy, letting someone else do the work.

On the far end I will say that I respect anyone who admits to being a one issue voter.

I suppose I also forgot that quite often you would see me defend the institutions of the United States government and means by which politicians and citizen groups alike influence politics. I quite like my bureaucracy, lobbyists, and special interests. I'm not much of a populist, and am usually a frank critic of populism, but I understand its uses from time to time.

I chose Conservative because it is the closest to what I believe in, which is squarely amidst those commonly helf views of the founders regarding liberty, property and the primary purpose of government. I consider myself a Constitutionalist or conservative libertarian. The protection of liberty, property and the common defense are the primary purposes for which the founders establish our Constitution. And the intent of those who ratified each portion are eched in stone until such time that they are amended. The US Constitution explicitly describes the powers of the federal government, and no other powers are implied. To me, the federal government is far larger and is carrying out more duties than allowed by the Constitution, and needs to be chopped down to size.

Libertarian conservatism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Constitutionalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Fiscally conservative libertarian, with a neo-malthusian outlook (surprise!), not in that a main drive is population control via contraception (as some neomalthusians advocate), but in acknowledging an eventual need to scale back and relocalize economies as population and demand for energy outstrip supply.

On the small government <----> big government continuum, I'm near the center.
On the isolationist <-----> pax Americana interventionist continuum, I'm near the center again.
On the ideologue <-----> pragmatist scale, I'm on the pragmatist side.
On the authoritarian <------> libertarian scale, I'm on the libertarian extreme.

So, I picked "libertarian" due to the last one.

Probably some of the DP posters don't think I'm really a libertarian, and they might be right.