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Joe Wilson - the N.C. LIAR

akyron said:
Because up to now it was simply not addressed. Saying you are going to the store for some milk does not guarantee milk to go with your cereal. You actually have to get it done at some point.

We will see what comes of this when they have completed redoing the language.
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this isn't true, joe has said that he and other members of congress worked on legislation to prevent illegals to have access to the the public option and democrats denied it...
 
akyron said:
Because up to now it was simply not addressed. Saying you are going to the store for some milk does not guarantee milk to go with your cereal. You actually have to get it done at some point.

We will see what comes of this when they have completed redoing the language.
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[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYlCfRiOEhM&feature=player_embedded"]YouTube - Lenny Bruce - The Truth[/ame]
 
Objective Voice said:
From a certain point of view, Joe Wilson was correct. I explain here:



Thus, under normal, day-to-day circumstances, illegal aliens would NOT be eligible to receive health care under H.R. 3200. But for my take, it's really a moot point, don't you think? I mean, under other laws of our nation, i.e., the INA, and international law (Geneva Convention), we have to treat our foreign prisoners fairly and do what we can to care for their health even while a detainee. Look at Gitmo as an example.

Granted, it's a stretch, but that's what makes this issue so bizzare. But I digress, Joe Wilson was right...from a certain point of view. (He was wrong for being disrespectful, but on the issue of illegal aliens possibly receiving health care under H.R. 3200, he is correct. Under certain circumstances under federal and international law, they could. It's one helluva stretch from the day-to-day, but they could.)
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This shows that in all meaningful senses of the word, it is Wilson who is the liar.
 
MikeVFF said:
What is your point? Please read the bill and then deny that the bill doesn't allow illegals access to government healthcare.

My bet is you will not.
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Life should be, is a life. All we have is what is.

--

What is, is Obama said illegals will bot be covered.

The bill is not done.

Why would you not except what he said?

When the bill is done and he says illegals will be covered then I would be concerned until then nothing to worry about. If you have a question that fine. What he said so many freaking time is clear unmistakable English is there are no death camps, there will be public OPTION, and that illegals will not be covered and more.
 
ewm90 said:
Life should be, is a life. All we have is what is.

--

What is, is Obama said illegals will bot be covered.

The bill is not done.

Why would you not except what he said?

When the bill is done and he says illegals will be covered then I would be concerned until then nothing to worry about. If you have a question that fine. What he said so many freaking time is clear unmistakable English is there are no death camps, there will be public OPTION, and that illegals will not be covered and more.
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Obama says (and i quote) "The reforms I am proposing will not cover illegal immigrants", The proposed bill does. What more must be said? Joe wilson has publicly proclaimed that legislation proposed by GOP to close the illegal coverage has been shot down by Democrats.
 
MikeVFF said:
Obama says (and i quote) "The reforms I am proposing will not cover illegal immigrants", The proposed bill does. What more must be said? Joe wilson has publicly proclaimed that legislation proposed by GOP to close the illegal coverage has been shot down by Democrats.
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The bills not done....

He has not offered a bill up yet.

Please give reference to what you refer if you think its important from credible sores.

Fox is not credible.
 
ewm90 said:
The bills not done....

He has not offered a bill up yet.

Please give reference to what you refer if you think its important from credible sores.

Fox is not credible.
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do you mean to say Fox is less credible than other msm?
 
ewm90 said:
The bills not done....

He has not offered a bill up yet.

Please give reference to what you refer if you think its important from credible sores.

Fox is not credible.
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Obama’s Health Care Speech | FactCheck.org

The president is correct: The House bill contains a section (Sec. 246) titled "NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS," which states: "Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States."
However, conservative critics object to a lack of specific enforcement measures in the bill. They argue that the lack of a specific verification mechanism constitutes a loophole that would allow illegal immigrants to get benefits despite the legal prohibition. Republican Rep. Dean Heller of Nevada proposed an amendment to the bill that would have required the use of the Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements program to check the citizenship of anyone applying for federal coverage or affordability credits. SAVE is the program used by Medicaid and similar entitlement programs. That amendment was voted down along party lines by the House Ways and Means Committee.
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Referring to this proposed bill: http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_111/20090714/aahca.pdf

BTW: Fox is just as credible as any other news source, just because most other cable news networks have heavy liberal bias doesn't make a conservative bias "not credible"
 
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disneydude said:
Except....the only reason this idiot apologized is not because he saw the error of his lies...
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Maybe he wasn't classy enough to call the president an idiot, so he just called him a liar while he was lying.

Voidwar said:
Do you know what the SAVE program is ?

USCIS - SAVE

If there is no legal way to determine residency prior to the delivery of care / benefits, then illegals will get them.

The fact that the bill "claims" they won't, is a lie, because the provision to enforce that claim has been voted out.

No Enforcement Provision = No Denial of Care
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akyron said:
Apparently the emotional senator was dead on.

As a result of his accurate though inappropriate comment:

They are scrambling to close the loopholes that were rejected previously.

Rep. Wilson Outburst Leads Senate Dems to Close Loophole in Health Reform Bill


"In the Senate, Democrats in the so called "Gang of Six," a group of bipartisan senators on the Senate Finance Committee which is the last panel yet to release its bill, began moving quickly to close the loophole that Wilson helped bring greater attention to.

"We absolutely assure that those who are here illegally would not get the benefit of any of these initiatives," Sen. Kent Conrad said."
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Zyphlin said:
Hey Disney, I'd love to see you actually comment on this.
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I'd like to see it too disney . . .
 
MikeVFF said:
Referring to this proposed bill: http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_111/20090714/aahca.pdf

BTW: Fox is just as credible as any other news source, just because most other cable news networks have heavy liberal bias doesn't make a conservative bias "not credible"
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This is at the top of fact check in the link you sent.

Obama was correct when he said his plan wouldn’t insure illegal immigrants; the House bill expressly forbids giving subsidies to those who are in the country illegally. Conservative critics complain that the bill lacks an enforcement mechanism, but that hardly makes the president a liar.


Did you look at fact check before quoting it????

Do you not see theses things????

Or are you purposely ignoring them I am relay starting to wonder????
 
ewm90 said:
Obama was correct when he said his plan wouldn’t insure illegal immigrants; the House bill expressly forbids giving subsidies to those who are in the country illegally. Conservative critics complain that the bill lacks an enforcement mechanism, but that hardly makes the president a liar.
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Actually, it does. That is what legislation is all about.

If you make a claim regarding future actions, and someone asks you "How?" you need to have an answer.

You use the term "forbid", but is it legitimate to use the term when there is no enforcement mechanism ?

I mean, I can forbid you to post here again, but how much teeth does my Forbiddance carry ?

With no teeth in the bill, claiming to be "forbidding" is a lie.
 
MikeVFF said:
this isn't true, joe has said that he and other members of congress worked on legislation to prevent illegals to have access to the the public option and democrats denied it...
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Not addressed within the bill is what I meant there. Hence the ongoing clarification. The majority declined to address it within the bill.
 
Actually, it does. That is what legislation is all about.

Well fact check agrees with Obama If you are so share you know some kind of conspiracy please do tell where you got it.

If you make a claim regarding future actions, and someone asks you "How?" you need to have an answer.


I am not sheer how to answer this because I am not sheer what you are referring to.

You use the term "forbid", but is it legitimate to use the term when there is no enforcement mechanism ?

The enforcement comes latter after there is a bill to present, I am confident.

I mean, I can forbid you to post here again, but how much teeth does my Forbiddance carry ?

as much as you give it. when you chose to give it.

With no teeth in the bill, claiming to be "forbidding" is a lie.

No one has done any thing yet allot of this is hypothetic the bill is not done yet. The bills man job is to make sheer US citizens get covered. If a immigrant how is here Illegally abuses the bill I sheer action will be taken to take them off government support the same way we do what we can from keeping business from hiring illegally employed people where its not ok to do so under the law.

Voidwar said:
Actually, it does. That is what legislation is all about.

If you make a claim regarding future actions, and someone asks you "How?" you need to have an answer.

You use the term "forbid", but is it legitimate to use the term when there is no enforcement mechanism ?

I mean, I can forbid you to post here again, but how much teeth does my Forbiddance carry ?

With no teeth in the bill, claiming to be "forbidding" is a lie.
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ewm90 said:
Well fact check agrees with Obama If you are so share you know some kind of conspiracy please do tell where you got it.
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Your fact check is just mouthing the wording of the bill's CLAIM.

Without an enforcement mechanism, the CLAIM is a lie.

Voidwar said:
Wilson was correct, and here is the White House admitting it.

from msnbc . . WH on health care, illegal immigrants - First Read - msnbc.com

The bullet points sent tonight by the White House:

Undocumented immigrants would not be able to buy private insurance on the exchange. Those who are lawfully present in this country would be able to participate.

Undocumented immigrants would be able to buy insurance in the non-exchange private market, just as they do today. That market will shrink as the exchange takes hold, but it will still exist and will be subject to reforms such as the bans on pre-existing conditions and caps.

Verification will be required when purchasing health insurance on the exchange. One option is the SAVE program (Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements) which states currently use to make sure that undocumented immigrants don't participate in safety-net programs for which they are ineligible.

There would be no change in the law that requires emergency rooms to treat people who need emergency care, including undocumented immigrants. There is already a federal grant program that compensates states for emergency room costs associated with treatment of undocumented immigrants, a provision sponsored by a Republican lawmaker.
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So thanks for calling the president on his Lie Joe, and thanks for admitting it was a lie by backpedalling Barack.
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Voidwar said:
Do you know what the SAVE program is ?

USCIS - SAVE

If there is no legal way to determine residency prior to the delivery of care / benefits, then illegals will get them.

The fact that the bill "claims" they won't, is a lie, because the provision to enforce that claim has been voted out.

No Enforcement Provision = No Denial of Care
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Voidwar said:
Your fact check is just mouthing the wording of the bill's CLAIM.

Without an enforcement mechanism, the CLAIM is a lie.
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Where did you get this information?

This sources is more credible fact check and most news outfits that are considered credible by most americans and foreigners its more credible then the president himself.
 
ewm90 said:
Where did you get this information?

This sources is more credible fact check and most news outfits that are considered credible by most americans and foreigners its more credible then the president himself.
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Read the links above.

Reason out for yourself that is there is no enforcement mechanism, then there is no denial of care / benefits.

When it comes to legislation, and you CLAIM you are going to do X, or not do X, then you HAVE to have an answer to the question : "HOW ?"

His bill "Claimed" it was not going to allow illegals to purchase the subsidized policies, yet the mechanism, by which this would have been prevented, had been voted off the bill. When the President was giving his speech, he made the same claim the bill does, and both were falsehoods. Neither Obama nor the bill had an answer to the question "HOW ?"
 
ewm90 said:
This is at the top of fact check in the link you sent.

Obama was correct when he said his plan wouldn’t insure illegal immigrants; the House bill expressly forbids giving subsidies to those who are in the country illegally. Conservative critics complain that the bill lacks an enforcement mechanism, but that hardly makes the president a liar.
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Yeah taking his words in the most literal sense, he didn't lie. Yet If you continue to read, there is a current loophole not requiring proof of citizenship, essentially allowing illegals access to taxpayer funded healthcare. If your argue is that Obama didn't like, than we can easily say he intentionally mislead the american people. Are you really going to argue semantics when the president's statements were false? The lying isn't the issue though, its the 17 million that will be seen funded with MY money and are not even paying THEIR taxes...

Did you look at fact check before quoting it????
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Read the whole thing

Do you not see theses things????
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It is becoming more and more apparent you are the one who is blind...

Or are you purposely ignoring them I am relay starting to wonder????
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Do you purposely make yourself seem ignorant and ill informed for my entertainment?
 
Literal is all we have MikeVFF. Making stuff up leads to problems.

The bills not done and I share it will not be perfect. over time the bugs will be fixed. The president is not going to commit political suicide by purposely letting illegals get health insurance.

Mistake will be made that certain and they will be fixed thats certain.

And the bills not done thats certain.



MikeVFF said:
Yeah taking his words in the most literal sense, he didn't lie. Yet If you continue to read, there is a current loophole not requiring proof of citizenship, essentially allowing illegals access to taxpayer funded healthcare. If your argue is that Obama didn't like, than we can easily say he intentionally mislead the american people. Are you really going to argue semantics when the president's statements were false? The lying isn't the issue though, its the 17 million that will be seen funded with MY money and are not even paying THEIR taxes...



Read the whole thing



It is becoming more and more apparent you are the one who is blind...



Do you purposely make yourself seem ignorant and ill informed for my entertainment?
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ewm90 said:
The president is not going to commit political suicide by purposely letting illegals get health insurance.
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HorseHockey !!

He just tried to get away with it and Joe Wilson caught him so he abandoned the attempt.
 
Voidwar said:
HorseHockey !!

He just tried to get away with it and Joe Wilson caught him so he abandoned the attempt.
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What are you talking about?

There is no bill to get a way with yet?

You make it sound as if he's trying to trick you.....

He has asked for suggestions for his bill if you have one grate but this kind of distortions is counterproductive.
 
ewm90 said:
You make it sound as if he's trying to trick you.....
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He was trying to trick America when Joe called him out on his lie.

He was trying to tell America that this Healthcare reform bill would NOT extend benefits to illegals, when the mechanism to enforce that claim had been voted off the bill and Obama knew it.
 
The only problem it the lie they calm dose not exist yet.

Voidwar said:
He was trying to trick America when Joe called him out on his lie.

He was trying to tell America that this Healthcare reform bill would NOT extend benefits to illegals, when the mechanism to enforce that claim had been voted off the bill and Obama knew it.
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