• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Debate - 9/16/2008, John McCain vs. John McCain

Harshaw said:
Why? Because I take the literal meanings of words and don't impute into them something that's not there?




Considering how many times he's said that there are real problems, if you're asking if he's saying that everything's fine, then no. I don't know how you can parse that from what he says unless you ignore about 80% of it. Which, obviously, you're doing.
Click to expand...

So what do you think McCain meant when he said that a lot of our economic problems are "psychological"?

What do you think McCain means when he says that the "fundamentals of our economy are strong?"
 
disneydude said:
So what do you think McCain meant when he said that a lot of our economic problems are "psychological"?
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure he meant that when everyone starts in on the mantra of "recession, recession, recession, recession" -- which is all you've heard about for the past year -- people start conserving and cutting back spending and behave in ways which help to bring one about. This isn't exactly some wacky novel theory.

What do you think McCain means when he says that the "fundamentals of our economy are strong?"
Click to expand...

Productivity is strong. Unemployment is historically low; inflation is historically low; interest rates are historically low. (Which is not to say the lowest in history, but low comparatively to history. Don't distort me.) Among other things.
 
Harshaw said:
I'm pretty sure he meant that when everyone starts in on the mantra of "recession, recession, recession, recession" -- which is all you've heard about for the past year -- people start conserving and cutting back spending and behave in ways which help to bring one about. This isn't exactly some wacky novel theory.



Productivity is strong. Unemployment is historically low; inflation is historically low; interest rates are historically low. (Which is not to say the lowest in history, but low comparatively to history. Don't distort me.) Among other things.
Click to expand...


Your Distortions are as bad as Bush/McCain:

Statement -Unemployment is historically low
Fact: Lie
" On September 5, 2008, the United States Department of Labor issued a report that its unemployment rate rose to 6.1 %, the highest in five years.
The unemployment rate jumped to 6.1 percent in August, its highest level in five years, as the erosion of the job market accelerated over the summer. Employers cut 84,000 jobs last month, more than economists had expected, and the Labor Department said that more jobs were lost in June and July than previously thought. So far, 605,000 jobs have disappeared since January. The unemployment rate, which rose from 5.7 percent in July, is now at its highest level since September 2003. ^ Graphs and Chart on Unemployment Rate from the Bureau of Labor Statistics government website. Accessed September 5, 2008.
^
 
disneydude said:
You see no contradiction in:

The fundamentals of our economy are strong
and
We are facing an economic crisis?

No wonder you support John McCain.
Click to expand...

Let's see if you can figure this out.

One can catch a cold but still be fundamentally healthy.

One can break a leg but still be fundamentally healthy.

One might contract herpes and still be called fundamentally healthy.

One can be overweight, smoke & drink too much and fail to exercise and still be fundamentally healthy.

People in this country can be incredibly dense and in a state of denial about the qualifications of a Democratic presidential candidate but (unfortunately?) still be fundamentally healthy.

I hope you will need no further tutorials on this.
 
bhkad said:
Let's see if you can figure this out.

One can catch a cold but still be fundamentally healthy.

One can break a leg but still be fundamentally healthy.

One might contract herpes and still be called fundamentally healthy.

One can be overweight, smoke & drink too much and fail to exercise and still be fundamentally healthy.

People in this country can be incredibly dense and in a state of denial about the qualifications of a Democratic presidential candidate but (unfortunately?) still be fundamentally healthy.

I hope you will need no further tutorials on this.
Click to expand...

So in other words, you are saying that McCain believes that overall our economy is strong, we are just experiencing a slight fever. :rofl

(I would Love to see McCain try to make that same argument in his stump speeches)

Yeah....I think the majority of Americans are going to buy that desperate spin.:doh
 
Last edited:
disneydude said:
So in other words, you are saying that McCain believes that overall our economy is strong, we are just experiencing a slight fever. :rofl

(I would Love to see McCain try to make that same argument in his stump speeches)

Yeah....I think the majority of Americans are going to buy that desperate spin.:doh
Click to expand...

You asked for it.

126cnrm.jpg


But the government-can-do-no-wrong crowd just doesn't get it. They won't acknowledge the law of unintended consequences from well-meaning, if misguided, acts.

Obama and Democrats on the Hill think even more regulation and more interference in the market will solve the problem their policies helped cause. For now, unarmed by the historic record, conventional wisdom is buying into their blame-business-first rhetoric and bigger-government solutions.

While government arguably has a role in helping low-income folks buy a home, Clinton went overboard by strong-arming lenders with tougher and tougher regulations, which only led to lenders taking on hundreds of billions in subprime bilge.

Market failure? Hardly. Once again, this crisis has government's fingerprints all over it.
Click to expand...


IBDeditorials.com: Editorials, Political Cartoons, and Polls from Investor's Business Daily -- The Real Culprits In This Meltdown
 
Last edited:
American said:
Isn't it funny how we're a free market economy until something screws up, and then everyone wants to blame the government? It's never the fault of those involved in the free market. It's Bush's fault because the banks effed up, and Wall Street effed up....and not their fault. Why don't the libs go down to Wall Street and mob them? Maybe because some of those institutions are owned by libs? Now the only blame I would assign to the govt is approving the types of mortgages and other loans allowed.
Click to expand...

Actually, it IS Bush's fault for putting the heads of those companies that failed at the head of the welfare line. That's Socialism.
 
Last edited:
disneydude said:
Your Distortions are as bad as Bush/McCain:

Statement -Unemployment is historically low
Fact: Lie
" On September 5, 2008, the United States Department of Labor issued a report that its unemployment rate rose to 6.1 %, the highest in five years.
The unemployment rate jumped to 6.1 percent in August, its highest level in five years, as the erosion of the job market accelerated over the summer. Employers cut 84,000 jobs last month, more than economists had expected, and the Labor Department said that more jobs were lost in June and July than previously thought. So far, 605,000 jobs have disappeared since January. The unemployment rate, which rose from 5.7 percent in July, is now at its highest level since September 2003. ^ Graphs and Chart on Unemployment Rate from the Bureau of Labor Statistics government website. Accessed September 5, 2008.
^
Click to expand...

You're alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll the way back to 2003 and accusing me of lying on whether or not current unemployment is low compared to history?

Don't waste my time. :roll:
 
disneydude said:
So in other words, you are saying that McCain believes that overall our economy is strong, we are just experiencing a slight fever. :rofl

(I would Love to see McCain try to make that same argument in his stump speeches)

Yeah....I think the majority of Americans are going to buy that desperate spin.:doh
Click to expand...

Recent Reuters, Zogby, and Gallup polls (among others) track McCain and Obama as about even on the issue in terms of who people think would be better.

Obama leads McCain by 2 points: Reuters poll | Politics | Reuters
(note that in the same poll which says Obama is ahead overall by two points, he's behind on the economy by the same margin, so dismiss away)

On Economy, McCain Gains Ground on Obama

http://www.democracycorps.com/wp-content/files/dcor091008fq91.pdf
 
Harshaw said:
You're alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll the way back to 2003 and accusing me of lying on whether or not current unemployment is low compared to history?

Don't waste my time. :roll:
Click to expand...

Where do you get 2003? The Report is from September 2008. Instead of wasting time....try using it wisely by reading. If you read carefully, the 2008 report indicated that unemployment is at its highest point since 2003.
 
Last edited:
Harshaw said:
What does "2 years ago" have to do with it?
Click to expand...

Do you believe the fundamentals of our economy were at a bigger risk 2 years ago(when the video was made) then they are today? If so, explain how.

(And he doesn't say they're "weak" -- he says they're "at risk," which is not the same thing. But again, even if it were, isn't that what he's being harangued to acknowledge? See my Full Metal Jacket quote above.)
Click to expand...

He's not acknowledging that the fundamentals are weak today. He's acknowleding that they're strong today which is opposite to what he's been 'haranaged' to acknowledge.
 
Last edited:
Hatuey said:
Do you believe the fundamentals of our economy were at a bigger risk 2 years ago(when the video was made) then they are today? If so, explain how.



He's not acknowledging that the fundamentals are weak today. He's acknowleding that they're strong today which is opposite to what he's been 'haranaged' to acknowledge.
Click to expand...

Well, considering both of those videos were made -- part of the OP's point -- on the same day, two days ago, this line of questioning is asinine.
 
Harshaw said:
Well, considering both of those videos were made -- part of the OP's point -- on the same day, two days ago, this line of questioning is asinine.
Click to expand...
Here's another youtube showing McCain flipflopping in a 24 hour period over the AIG bailout. Let's see you spin this. [youtube]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xrEN58gcxIs&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xrEN58gcxIs&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]
 
He changed his position on AIG. And? Do you think this is some kind of "gotcha" as against me?
 
Harshaw said:
He changed his position on AIG. And? Do you think this is some kind of "gotcha" as against me?
Click to expand...
No, sorry, my bad, :3oops: yours was just the last one posted, so I clicked it to respond, went back and in re-reading other posts to formulate my answer, responded to the ones I had been re-reading not yours. It should read "Lets see how THEY spin this,"
 
Harshaw said:
He changed his position on AIG. And? Do you think this is some kind of "gotcha" as against me?
Click to expand...

No, that is really a gotcha against McCain, who actually said those things. Don't take it personally.

BTW, I know someone whose health is fundamentally strong. He has terminal cancer, though, so his health is at risk.:mrgreen:
 
Meanwhile, Obama doesn't know whether he's for or against the bailout, or even what AIG's name is.

Political Punch
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom