jfuh

Source


Even the economist, hardly what I would ever call - liberal media - by any extent, is calling a McCain presidency Bush three.
He's flip flopped on his character and become bed fellows with social conservatives, that he's just lost any "maverick-ness" about him.
The way that the republicans have now been "flocking" towards Palin almost seems that they would rather elect Palin as president over McCain.
However here's the big problem - they already dug a whole to bury her in with the "expereince" manuvering that they will now have to eat up.
More importantly, it is social conservatism that is turning off most independent voters that the GOP will need if McCain is to have even a biting chance of taking the white house.

But as an Obama supporter Keep it up guys, keep up this non-sense, I'm just having quite the giggle to watch the GOP imploding.

__________________
The facts and science of the theory of anthropogenic Global warming

Zyphlin

Bring back the real McCain! That way Democrats can go "see, he's not that bad" and laugh the entire time as they still don't vote for him, but watch republican turn out for him be record lows as well.

Though hey, I'd rather the real McCain show up. That way at least joe moderate, compromise everything, be soft on immigration, denegrate your own party, oppose tax cuts, talk against spending while constantly helping out the party that wants to make new programs that will ensure greater spending for decades to come would be the guy that loses massively instead of this fake one that they can try to point and go "see, conservatism doesn't work" and then hold their ears while we go "But...that, and he, wasn't conservatism".

__________________
Obama Wins. Time to reach for the new American Dream: "Strive for Mediocrity, avoid success, get free crap"

SouthernDemocrat

I have said it so many times. When you have a base that requires you to take doctrinal positions to keep them from throwing a fit, and when that base is gradually shrinking every year, you have a problem, a huge one at that.

Every year the number of conservative evangelicals relative to the population of the United States decreases a little. You can't expect to win national elections and have to appease that kind of a base. Especially when the positions you have to take to appease them ends up turning off everyone else.

__________________
Charles Krauthammer describing Obama:

"He's got both a first-class intellect and a first-class temperament."

jfuh

McCain 2.0 is for all those, those exact failed policies that Bush has been running on the last 8 years.
So thank you for only proving the point of how a McCain presidency would be nothing more than Bush 3.

jfuh

fine by me, I have no problem laughing at the site of that ship sinking - fast.

SouthernDemocrat

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zyphlin Bring back the real McCain! That way Democrats can go "see, he's not that bad" and laugh the entire time as they still don't vote for him, but watch republican turn out for him be record lows as well.

Every utopian movement always excuses their ideological failures as a movement by claiming that the true form of their movement was never tried.

The Communists still make that claim today. They always claim true communism was never tried. Well, you know they have a point, true communism has never been tried, but that’s not for lack of effort on the part of the communists. The problem is the ideology itself is bankrupt and divorced from reality.

Similarly, we now conservatives arguing that it’s not that conservatism has been a failure, it’s just that it’s never been tried in its true form. Well, yeah, it never has been. However, that’s because it’s a discredited ideology, bankrupt, and divorced from reality. You guys have been preaching the doctrines of conservatism since Reagan came to power in 1981. Yet, the last fiscally conservative Republican was Dwight Eisenhower; a president so called conservatives would call a liberal today and the fiscal size of government grew slower under President Clinton than it has under any Republican president in the last 30 years. You can try to credit the Republican congress with that all you want, and ignore all the budget showdowns the Clinton Administration had with them, but the fact is, we had the same Republican Congress all the way until 2006, what changed was the president that kept them from getting their way.

What you want will never work, no matter who you elect, no matter how many people you elect, no matter what your movement does, the writers and pundits that back it, or the think tanks that hand out the talking points. It is a movement that will never work because it’s divorced from reality and has never worked anywhere in the history of civilization. You can accept that, become more moderate and pragmatic and start winning elections again, or you can keep your heads in the sand and watch your party become nothing but a regional party unable to win national elections.

Zyphlin

Thanks for twisting my words and jumping to a conclussion that wasn't anywhere present in my post, nor ignoring the dozens of other threads that you've participated in where I've flat out stated that I don't believe the McCain being presented to us currently is the McCain we'd have as a presidency.

thanks, I'll know better than to bother with this obviously slanted thread that has no desire for real debate. Saved me time

jfuh

Don't worry, I caught the part where you said you too wished the real McCain to show up.
Which is why I said, McCain2.0 is for all those failed policies.
But hey, I've read all your posts on this as well, and seems you are in make believe pretending that this is not who McCain has actually become these days and still hold to the ideological McCain.
Which is the point I'm getting to here. Republican moderates are holding to the ideological maveric McCain of 2000 rather than accepting the reality that he's none of those things anymore.
He called for a "respectable" campaign, I've yet to see this from his campaign.

Mind you, McCain is running for the office of the president of the United States, not the president of the GOP zealot brigade. I pointed to the Economist which is suggesting that you bring back the old McCain because he's Bush 3 and that will spell your loss.
Quite frankly, asside from the debate on the issue that McCain 1.0 is far better than McCain 2.0 it serves me no good in suggesting how McCain might actually be able to win, I don't want him to win.
So if you're happy with McCain 2.0, fine by me

Zyphlin

Actually I'm unhappy with McCain 1.0, and don't believe McCain 2.0.

And I agree, McCain hasn't ran a respectable campaign despite stating it. Much like Obama hasn't ran anything different than a "politics as usual" campaign either.

They're politicians. They do what politicians do.

And I don't think McCain 2.0 is necessarily going to win, but McCain 1.0 has no shot at winning...at all.

Know why? The vast majority of people clamoring for McCain 1.0 to come back....are die hard Obama voters. Would LOVE to see you do anything to convince me any would switch over to McCain from Obama just because it was the old McCain we were seeing. McCain 2.0 may get him a close loss, 1.0 would be a landslide. He'd get the lowest conservative turn out potentially ever, a mixed independent turn out because Obama appeals to them atm, and next to no democrat turn out because he'd be stupid enough to listen to them and then watch them all go "Yay, McCain's back...so, time to vote for Obama"

jfuh

No, I can not demonstrate to you that McCain 1.0 would have people to "switch" over.
What I can however is to show that McCain 1.0 would be more attractive to the moderate independents which McCain and Obama need to win over.
I myself would find McCain 1.0 vote worthy and have second thoughts about voting for Obama over McCain 1.0.
But what has McCain 2.0 gotten? It shows McCain sacrificing principle for the purpose and intent of politics - he's not going to win either way now and thus may be the end of this political career.
In 2000, I would've without doubt voted for McCain 1.0 over Gore. But now seems McCain is borrowing from the bush campaign book and even evolved into Bush 3. Thanks but no thanks.
I prefer a man of character and principle rather than one who's had to double back on nearly everything he's ever stood for.